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Post by guest2 on Jul 12, 2020 20:38:08 GMT -5
Not impressed at all with Bomgrens ability to make changes and figure out how to counteract that lefty. Also not sure they made the best use of Troy having him set all the time That team was unstoppable on offense. Neither Bomgren or Troy could get anywhere close to the attack. They almost would have been better putting both Troy and Bomgren at the net and have the non blocker pull but that isn't going to work either at that level. Why wouldnt it work at that level? You have a double block taking away a swing and an AVP caliber defender - Brian or Tim - trying to pick up the shots. Plus you have a hitter that does not want to shoot, being forced to. That would have worked better than what they did most of the match. They did some of this, but late and I didnt think they really committed to it a ton. Its always tough to make on the fly adjustments when a big block or two could change the whole dynamic but some options would have been: Serving that guy extremely short to take his approach. Serving him to the line to take away some of his range. Harder jumpers, skyballs, blocking two some times and one blocker drops some of the time. That guy was a beast, but there were plenty of options for other strategies. Also it doesnt say much for another year of Troy's improvement that a 6'1 non-AVP player was not affected at all by Troy's blocking. Finally I would have taken Tim or Brian out of serve receive. Tim was not hitting nearly as effective as usual and after a while, I would have given Field a chance.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Jul 13, 2020 7:11:28 GMT -5
That team was unstoppable on offense. Neither Bomgren or Troy could get anywhere close to the attack. They almost would have been better putting both Troy and Bomgren at the net and have the non blocker pull but that isn't going to work either at that level. Why wouldnt it work at that level? You have a double block taking away a swing and an AVP caliber defender - Brian or Tim - trying to pick up the shots. Plus you have a hitter that does not want to shoot, being forced to. That would have worked better than what they did most of the match. They did some of this, but late and I didnt think they really committed to it a ton. Its always tough to make on the fly adjustments when a big block or two could change the whole dynamic but some options would have been: Serving that guy extremely short to take his approach. Serving him to the line to take away some of his range. Harder jumpers, skyballs, blocking two some times and one blocker drops some of the time. That guy was a beast, but there were plenty of options for other strategies. Also it doesnt say much for another year of Troy's improvement that a 6'1 non-AVP player was not affected at all by Troy's blocking. Finally I would have taken Tim or Brian out of serve receive. Tim was not hitting nearly as effective as usual and after a while, I would have given Field a chance. A double block typically will work to slow a big hitter down or even stop him in the grass, thing is these guys were just hot and it was their day. And it pretty much played out like I thought it would, Troy would not be the most dominant player at the net out-jumping everyone, his blocking was not going to shut everyone down, and his passing was so suspect during the day that it seemed like they had him set for playoffs knowing he would be a liability back there. I think the brothers would have eaten Troy alive in serve receive and the right move was to have him up at the net blocking. Grass volleyball is more rewarding to the complete player, and those guys that play indoor at a high level, or play grass all summer, are going to be the guys that come out on top over someone who normally doesn't. I was never saying Troy was going to be a terrible player this weekend just that he is a full time AVP guy who has very limited indoor experience and does not have the complete skill set those guys do. A pretty common criticism on this board during AVP weekends has been that Tim and Troy's serving game was too weak to take them over the top, it was almost something similar this weekend.
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Post by KAP on Jul 13, 2020 7:46:35 GMT -5
Any results for the women's final? Haven't been able find it and the site doesn't list the result. Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere. Hailey Harward & Julia Scoles beat Katie Spieler & Delaney Mewhirter in three (14-21, 21-17, 15-11). Katie and Delaney were in control the first set and into the second, but the wheels came off at the end of the second. Then Hailey and Julie got out to a quick 3-0 lead in the third, and Katie and Delaney couldn't chase them down. Lots of long rallies in that third set. Good volleyball!
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Post by JB Southpaw on Jul 13, 2020 9:08:50 GMT -5
That team was unstoppable on offense. Neither Bomgren or Troy could get anywhere close to the attack. They almost would have been better putting both Troy and Bomgren at the net and have the non blocker pull but that isn't going to work either at that level. Why wouldnt it work at that level? You have a double block taking away a swing and an AVP caliber defender - Brian or Tim - trying to pick up the shots. Plus you have a hitter that does not want to shoot, being forced to. That would have worked better than what they did most of the match. They did some of this, but late and I didnt think they really committed to it a ton. Its always tough to make on the fly adjustments when a big block or two could change the whole dynamic but some options would have been: Serving that guy extremely short to take his approach. Serving him to the line to take away some of his range. Harder jumpers, skyballs, blocking two some times and one blocker drops some of the time. That guy was a beast, but there were plenty of options for other strategies. Also it doesnt say much for another year of Troy's improvement that a 6'1 non-AVP player was not affected at all by Troy's blocking. Finally I would have taken Tim or Brian out of serve receive. Tim was not hitting nearly as effective as usual and after a while, I would have given Field a chance. Let's not pass these guys off as lesser players in this arena. The kid at Hawaii is the best Libero in the college game, his Bro is a pro player. Those 2 handle serves much worse than they saw this weekend. Indoor OHs & OPPs are regularly 6'6 and above, they should be used to that block.
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Post by guest2 on Jul 13, 2020 13:34:23 GMT -5
Why wouldnt it work at that level? You have a double block taking away a swing and an AVP caliber defender - Brian or Tim - trying to pick up the shots. Plus you have a hitter that does not want to shoot, being forced to. That would have worked better than what they did most of the match. They did some of this, but late and I didnt think they really committed to it a ton. Its always tough to make on the fly adjustments when a big block or two could change the whole dynamic but some options would have been: Serving that guy extremely short to take his approach. Serving him to the line to take away some of his range. Harder jumpers, skyballs, blocking two some times and one blocker drops some of the time. That guy was a beast, but there were plenty of options for other strategies. Also it doesnt say much for another year of Troy's improvement that a 6'1 non-AVP player was not affected at all by Troy's blocking. Finally I would have taken Tim or Brian out of serve receive. Tim was not hitting nearly as effective as usual and after a while, I would have given Field a chance. Let's not pass these guys off as lesser players in this arena. The kid at Hawaii is the best Libero in the college game, his Bro is a pro player. Those 2 handle serves much worse than they saw this weekend. Indoor OHs & OPPs are regularly 6'6 and above, they should be used to that block. The Bomgrens did have some success when Brian was bombing serves. Also one of the passers is an All-American libero so hard to expect a bad pass from him, but the other guy was a last minute pickup. But even conceding a great pass from Gage, would be worthwhile if you move him to a position from which you want him to hit. As a libero I am sure he is used to passing every kind of serve but what he isnt used to is receiving, then getting back in position to hit. Also the Worsley brothers seem like excellent players and I am hopeful they try to play pro beach, but the one who exposed Troy's block is a libero. He isn't dealing with 6'6 OHs and Opps on a daily basis as a hitter. His brother, the one with the pro deal, is a setter. If Troy is expecting to deal with elite jumper/hitters on the AVP and FIVB, he has to be able to have an impact on a player like Gage But lets say for arguments sake that Troy cant be expected to get blocks in that situation, he also failed to direct the swings where he wanted them to go. Gage was hitting angle against cross court blocks whenever he wanted to. He was hitting angle on middle sets against Troys angle block. An elite AVP blocker - which is what Troy aspires to be - has to be able to take cross effectively on a middle set against a 6'1 Libero. If Gage then beats the defender down the line fine, but Troy generally couldnt even get the angle blocked or force Gage to hit deep into the court. Very difficult to imagine that happening against a player like Theo Brunner for example. Finally he didnt take advantage when there were bad sets or out of system plays. Again a skill you would expect him to be able to do. Troy also failed to take advantage of the rare poor sets
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Post by yupyupyup on Jul 13, 2020 15:38:32 GMT -5
Let's not pass these guys off as lesser players in this arena. The kid at Hawaii is the best Libero in the college game, his Bro is a pro player. Those 2 handle serves much worse than they saw this weekend. Indoor OHs & OPPs are regularly 6'6 and above, they should be used to that block. The Bomgrens did have some success when Brian was bombing serves. Also one of the passers is an All-American libero so hard to expect a bad pass from him, but the other guy was a last minute pickup. But even conceding a great pass from Gage, would be worthwhile if you move him to a position from which you want him to hit. As a libero I am sure he is used to passing every kind of serve but what he isnt used to is receiving, then getting back in position to hit. Also the Worsley brothers seem like excellent players and I am hopeful they try to play pro beach, but the one who exposed Troy's block is a libero. He isn't dealing with 6'6 OHs and Opps on a daily basis as a hitter. His brother, the one with the pro deal, is a setter. If Troy is expecting to deal with elite jumper/hitters on the AVP and FIVB, he has to be able to have an impact on a player like Gage But lets say for arguments sake that Troy cant be expected to get blocks in that situation, he also failed to direct the swings where he wanted them to go. Gage was hitting angle against cross court blocks whenever he wanted to. He was hitting angle on middle sets against Troys angle block. An elite AVP blocker - which is what Troy aspires to be - has to be able to take cross effectively on a middle set against a 6'1 Libero. If Gage then beats the defender down the line fine, but Troy generally couldnt even get the angle blocked or force Gage to hit deep into the court. Very difficult to imagine that happening against a player like Theo Brunner for example. Finally he didnt take advantage when there were bad sets or out of system plays. Again a skill you would expect him to be able to do. Troy also failed to take advantage of the rare poor sets Troy and bomgrens didn’t play well at all. The other team couldn’t of played better. They were bombing serves at hitting around troys block. If I were to bet, I’d say Troy and Bomgrens would beat that team 7 out of 10 times. But you only get one chance!
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Post by haze on Jul 13, 2020 21:50:28 GMT -5
Fields lack of experience really showed in the finals match, block-wise. That team was running quick tempo 2 attack sets and Field was basically guessing, late, and just didn't have a good solid block up that affected the hitter. Bomgren was even struggling with it. I think putting 2 blocks up and committing to your side hitter, the other can try to pull, and at least you can try to get a better block up. I think good ball control hitters would just work the court in a situation like that. But really they didn't even have to because what they did worked and the Bomgrens didn't adjust.
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Post by wilbur on Jul 14, 2020 5:23:45 GMT -5
didn't watch Troy's team play but from watching other grass and 3s and 4s tourneys and watching Troy play in both doubles and 4s I am not surprised. Saying that that team would win 2 or 3 times out of 10 feels wrong, but I didn't see it. Worsley brothers have spent 1000s of hours training indoors at a very high level with UH and at USA national teams both junior and senior. They may not be able to jump as high but their ball control and knowledge or team volleyball is a huge advantage. Well played in-system VB doesn't look that impressive to many compared to big banging teams that play all or nothing but they will slowly grind points and solve tricky scenarios just enough to get the side out more times than other teams.
The doubles game, and especially sand changes things up in a way that generally benefits(or at least reduces the disadvantage) to self taught or less traditional players. Many of the systems and fundamentals trained indoors start to matter a lot more once 3-4 players are out there, the setter has options and blockers/defenders need to be more disciplined for one. Well trained indoor players use angles and team defense to their advantage and players that have mostly only played doubles often struggle to understand this system both offensively and defensively. So much is different; what an ideal pass, ideal set, ideal block move, ideal defensive positioning is in 2s is not that in 3s or 4s. A good analogy would be basketball mentioned earlier.
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Post by wilbur on Jul 14, 2020 5:24:34 GMT -5
is there a link to watch any of the games bomgrens played?
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Post by wilbur on Jul 14, 2020 5:40:57 GMT -5
Let's not pass these guys off as lesser players in this arena. The kid at Hawaii is the best Libero in the college game, his Bro is a pro player. Those 2 handle serves much worse than they saw this weekend. Indoor OHs & OPPs are regularly 6'6 and above, they should be used to that block. The Bomgrens did have some success when Brian was bombing serves. Also one of the passers is an All-American libero so hard to expect a bad pass from him, but the other guy was a last minute pickup. But even conceding a great pass from Gage, would be worthwhile if you move him to a position from which you want him to hit. As a libero I am sure he is used to passing every kind of serve but what he isnt used to is receiving, then getting back in position to hit. Also the Worsley brothers seem like excellent players and I am hopeful they try to play pro beach, but the one who exposed Troy's block is a libero. He isn't dealing with 6'6 OHs and Opps on a daily basis as a hitter. His brother, the one with the pro deal, is a setter. If Troy is expecting to deal with elite jumper/hitters on the AVP and FIVB, he has to be able to have an impact on a player like Gage But lets say for arguments sake that Troy cant be expected to get blocks in that situation, he also failed to direct the swings where he wanted them to go. Gage was hitting angle against cross court blocks whenever he wanted to. He was hitting angle on middle sets against Troys angle block. An elite AVP blocker - which is what Troy aspires to be - has to be able to take cross effectively on a middle set against a 6'1 Libero. If Gage then beats the defender down the line fine, but Troy generally couldnt even get the angle blocked or force Gage to hit deep into the court. Very difficult to imagine that happening against a player like Theo Brunner for example. Finally he didnt take advantage when there were bad sets or out of system plays. Again a skill you would expect him to be able to do. Troy also failed to take advantage of the rare poor sets I would bet that both Joe and Gage have taken more swings against better blockers by a wide margin than Troy. As junior players and pick up games I am sure they play other positions than S and L. For many skilled indoor players, especially shorter hitters, a blocker that hasn't been trained well or doesn't seal the net is a pot of gold. blocking 2v2 beach and being an effective blocker on grass or indoors 3s, 4s or 6s is different skill set
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Post by parker on Jul 15, 2020 11:42:11 GMT -5
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Post by keeweekid on Jul 16, 2020 12:18:40 GMT -5
Think the biggest advantage was the W. Brothers were putting heat on their serves and it paid off with a few aces. Bomgrens/Troy were going for more placement serves but in 3s with open hand serve receive, wasn’t working. They both seemed to have a decent number of Out serves by both teams but W. brothers were rewarded with a few aces. Troy was nowhere close to blocking Gage. Gage was hitting severe angles n didn’t seem like Troy adjusted. Few times they double blocked, Gage placed so that strategy didn’t seem to get anywhere.
Joe was great setter, felt Troy was avg. it seemed like some of the sets to Tim were a little too inside.
I know someone mentioned Bomgrens/Tro would win more often if played a series of 10. While hard to say, the W.Brothers has the best hitter, best setter n were much more aggressive on their serves.
Would have liked to see Tim take over at net for Troy as I think Tim a better blocker (timing/instinct) than Troy plus Tim a good setter. Troy on strong side, Brian weak with most sets going to Troy as I thought the W.Brothers weakness was not having a dominant block or much of a block that would worry any of the attacking hitters.
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Post by COVAlove on Jul 16, 2020 21:35:06 GMT -5
Think the biggest advantage was the W. Brothers were putting heat on their serves and it paid off with a few aces. Bomgrens/Troy were going for more placement serves but in 3s with open hand serve receive, wasn’t working. They both seemed to have a decent number of Out serves by both teams but W. brothers were rewarded with a few aces. Troy was nowhere close to blocking Gage. Gage was hitting severe angles n didn’t seem like Troy adjusted. Few times they double blocked, Gage placed so that strategy didn’t seem to get anywhere. Joe was great setter, felt Troy was avg. it seemed like some of the sets to Tim were a little too inside. I know someone mentioned Bomgrens/Tro would win more often if played a series of 10. While hard to say, the W.Brothers has the best hitter, best setter n were much more aggressive on their serves. Would have liked to see Tim take over at net for Troy as I think Tim a better blocker (timing/instinct) than Troy plus Tim a good setter. Troy on strong side, Brian weak with most sets going to Troy as I thought the W.Brothers weakness was not having a dominant block or much of a block that would worry any of the attacking hitters. They may not have had much of a block after their big guy went down with the rolled ankle but they dug the hell out of everyone.
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