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Post by vbcoltrane on Sept 17, 2020 17:59:13 GMT -5
There's the rub. A lot of people have suggested that the AAU greatly enjoys its exclusivity. UNL serves the needs of Nebraskans by focusing on Ag research - which, oddly, the AAU almost totally disregards in their metrics. I have no idea where Nebraska would rank compared to other Ag research schools, but we're pretty proud of it, and it's greatly benefited this state. If we had to choose between research that directly benefits this state or AAU membership, that's a pretty easy choice. There's also the funky way the Nebraska University System is structured, with the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, part of the System but completely apart from UNL. The AAU doesn't associate the two, so there goes a huge chunk of whatever research metric they accept. But we've been on the cutting edge of medical research for ages. You'd think the Big 10 would want ag research to be valued more since there are several schools in the conference that are strong in that regard.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 17, 2020 18:16:04 GMT -5
UNL serves the needs of Nebraskans by focusing on Ag research - which, oddly, the AAU almost totally disregards in their metrics. I have no idea where Nebraska would rank compared to other Ag research schools, but we're pretty proud of it, and it's greatly benefited this state. If we had to choose between research that directly benefits this state or AAU membership, that's a pretty easy choice. There's also the funky way the Nebraska University System is structured, with the University of Nebraska Medical Center in Omaha, part of the System but completely apart from UNL. The AAU doesn't associate the two, so there goes a huge chunk of whatever research metric they accept. But we've been on the cutting edge of medical research for ages. You'd think the Big 10 would want ag research to be valued more since there are several schools in the conference that are strong in that regard. The issue with the "But Ag research" claim is that the referred-to ag research is not competitive. It's politically allocated.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 11:03:47 GMT -5
You'd think the Big 10 would want ag research to be valued more since there are several schools in the conference that are strong in that regard. The issue with the "But Ag research" claim is that the referred-to ag research is not competitive. It's politically allocated. Boom. This is the long and short of it.
When you look at the numbers, the USDA appears to give each state's land-grant school a certain amount of research grant dollars each year. That's not competitive.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 11:07:33 GMT -5
Lot of good info here, on what the point of the AAU is in modern times, and the history of what happened in 2011: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_American_UniversitiesOn the benefits: The largest attraction of the AAU for many schools, especially nonmembers, is prestige. Since the AAU's founding, it has "been a grouping of the elite in the American university world," and "[n]ew presidents of nonmember universities often list gaining admission to the AAU as a goal of their administration."[7] For example, in 2010 the chancellor of nonmember North Carolina State University described it as "the pre-eminent research-intensive membership group. To be a part of that organization is something N.C. State aspires to."[9] A spokesman for nonmember University of Connecticut called it "perhaps the most elite organization in higher education. You'd probably be hard-pressed to find a major research university that didn't want to be a member of the AAU."[10] In 2012, the newly elected chancellor of University of Massachusetts Amherst, a nonmember of AAU, reaffirmed the objective of elevating the campus to AAU standards and the hope of becoming a member in the near future, and called it a distinctive status.[11] Because of the lengthy and difficult entrance process, boards of trustees, state legislators, and donors often see membership as evidence of the quality of a university.[9]The AAU acts as a lobbyist at its headquarters in the city of Washington, DC, for research and higher education funding and for policy and regulatory issues affecting research universities. The association holds two meetings annually, both in Washington. Separate meetings are held for university presidents, provosts, and other officials. Because the meetings are private, they offer the opportunity for discussion without media coverage. Prominent government officials, businessmen, and others often speak to the groups.[9] On 2011 changes: - University of Nebraska–Lincoln (1909–2011) Removed from the AAU.[28] Chancellor Harvey Perlman said that the lack of an on-campus medical school (the Medical Center is a separate campus of the University of Nebraska system) and the AAU's disregarding of USDA-funded agricultural research in its metrics hurt the university's performance in the association's internal ranking system.[13] In 2010 Perlman stated that had Nebraska not been part of the AAU, the Big Ten Conference would likely not have invited it to become the athletic conference's 12th member.[10]- Syracuse University (1966–2011) Because of a dispute over how to count nonfederal grants, Syracuse voluntarily withdrew from the AAU in 2011. The Chronicle of Higher Education reported that after "it became clear that Syracuse wouldn't meet the association's revised membership criteria, university officials decided that they would leave the organization voluntarily, rather than face a vote like Nebraska's, and notified the leadership of their intentions."[29]
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 11:10:15 GMT -5
The long and short of Nebraska's AAU story is this: for whatever reasons, they coudn't/can't figure out a way to have UN's MC in Omaha count as research dollars for Lincoln, as KU's MC in KC is able to be counted as research dollars for Lawrence.
That's literally all they would've needed to do. Just do it like Kansas does.
My wild guess is there is great internal resistance within the U of Neb system and/or the state legislature to prevent Lincoln from getting its claws wrapped around the MC.
Other Big Ten schools have also done similar things, in the recent past. Namely, Rutgers and Indiana.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 11:12:37 GMT -5
I don't think AAU status is absolutely necessary to be a good school. Being a research university isn't necessary to being a good school, but it is necessary to being a good research university. The PAC and B1G seem to pride themselves very much on being associations of research universities. More truth here.
Frankly ... being great at research has very little to do with the undergraduate experience. Schools that pride themselves on a (very) rigorous academic experience for undergraduates, tend to be very specific about that. Ivy League. Top elite liberal arts colleges. UChicago. And so on.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 11:16:45 GMT -5
"Brings in more money", is a cryptic claim. You mean, they sell more tickets to football games? So what?
The reason the Big Ten is able to give each university $50M a year, is almost entirely due to TV contracts. Nebraska is a piddly little state, with relatively few TV households to market products for advertisers. And certainly, almost no one in the general, national, college football fanbase gives a crap about mediocre Husker football, anymore. The diehards are mostly Neb alumni, daydreaming about the late 90's and early 2000's.
In the vein of good faith, honest discussion: I would however love to see some actual data on how many cable/satellite subscribers in the Denver and KC TV markets have the Big Ten Network in their main channel tier, due to Nebraska being in the conference. That would move the needle, a bit.
No, I'm talking over all revenue. I don't have to be cryptic about it. Look it up.
Marginally higher.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 11:17:58 GMT -5
Some, like the AAU, can act as if The 'University of Nebraska Medical Center' doesn't exist because it's located on a satellite campus in Omaha. "University of Nebraska Medical Center" - a budget of $774 million (2020–21). Ranking Notes: UNMC's primary care program was ranked 12th of 188 medical schools. The College of Pharmacy (28th of 134). The College of Public Health (56th of 177). The College of Allied Health Professions' physical therapy program (34th of 239). The physician assistant program (15 of 170). The UNMC College of Nursing's Master's of Nursing program (61st of 588). The Doctor of Nursing Practice program (53rd of 319). The College of Nursing's graduate online nursing program tied at 66th with eight other institutions out of 178 ranked schools, and the nursing administration/leadership program, known as the LEAD program, was ranked 12th in online nursing administration programs, according to U.S. News & World Report. UNMC was named a Fulbright U.S. Scholar Program Top Producing Institution for the 2019-2020 academic year by the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. * Federal research grants totaled $174.2 million in 2019-20. U.S. News ranked UNMC 62nd in research. Oregon, and some other states, are the same way. Completely separate.
Also, UNMC and UNO are completely separate campuses. Not far apart, but not at all co-located.
Note that Kansas's Medical Center is located in Kansas City, over 40miles away from Lawrence. Yet its research counts under Lawrence, and KU is still in the AAU.
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Post by vbcoltrane on Sept 18, 2020 12:34:38 GMT -5
Some, like the AAU, can act as if The 'University of Nebraska Medical Center' doesn't exist because it's located on a satellite campus in Omaha. "University of Nebraska Medical Center" - a budget of $774 million (2020–21). Ranking Notes: UNMC's primary care program was ranked 12th of 188 medical schools. The College of Pharmacy (28th of 134). The College of Public Health (56th of 177). The College of Allied Health Professions' physical therapy program (34th of 239). The physician assistant program (15 of 170). The UNMC College of Nursing's Master's of Nursing program (61st of 588). The Doctor of Nursing Practice program (53rd of 319). The College of Nursing's graduate online nursing program tied at 66th with eight other institutions out of 178 ranked schools, and the nursing administration/leadership program, known as the LEAD program, was ranked 12th in online nursing administration programs, according to U.S. News & World Report. UNMC was named a Fulbright U.S. Scholar Program Top Producing Institution for the 2019-2020 academic year by the U.S. Department of State's Bureau of Educational and Cultural Affairs. * Federal research grants totaled $174.2 million in 2019-20. U.S. News ranked UNMC 62nd in research. Oregon, and some other states, are the same way. Completely separate.
Also, UNMC and UNO are completely separate campuses. Not far apart, but not at all co-located.
Note that Kansas's Medical Center is located in Kansas City, over 40miles away from Lawrence. Yet its research counts under Lawrence, and KU is still in the AAU.
I'd imagine it's less about geographic proximity and more about administrative control. If the same governing body controls the $$$, then the medical school or anything else could be located 300 miles away and it would count.
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Post by knapplc on Sept 18, 2020 12:38:06 GMT -5
Someone has an obsession. Cool, cool.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2020 12:44:28 GMT -5
Someone has an obsession. Cool, cool. You keep posting
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Redoutwest
Junior
Representing in the panhandle.....
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Post by Redoutwest on Sept 18, 2020 13:50:39 GMT -5
No, I'm talking over all revenue. I don't have to be cryptic about it. Look it up.
Marginally higher.
Eh, who can keep up with your rambling. So in other words, yeah, Nebraska makes more money than Minnesota.
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Post by oldnewbie on Sept 18, 2020 14:07:18 GMT -5
You'd think the Big 10 would want ag research to be valued more since there are several schools in the conference that are strong in that regard. The issue with the "But Ag research" claim is that the referred-to ag research is not competitive. It's politically allocated. The other problem with the "But Ag research" claim is that they aren't ranked very highly as an Ag school. Two different rankings that pop up first in a google search, list them as the #9 or #10 school specifically for Ag Science. In the B1G.
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Post by knapplc on Sept 18, 2020 14:12:26 GMT -5
The issue with the "But Ag research" claim is that the referred-to ag research is not competitive. It's politically allocated. The other problem with the "But Ag research" claim is that they aren't ranked very highly as an Ag school. Two different rankings that pop up first in a google search, list them as the #9 or #10 school specifically for Ag Science. In the B1G.
Why is it a problem that we'd be among our Big Ten peers in ag research?
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Post by oldnewbie on Sept 18, 2020 14:25:13 GMT -5
The other problem with the "But Ag research" claim is that they aren't ranked very highly as an Ag school. Two different rankings that pop up first in a google search, list them as the #9 or #10 school specifically for Ag Science. In the B1G.
Why is it a problem that we'd be among our Big Ten peers in ag research?
Among, above, below, it's really just how you turn the list and how hard you squint.
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