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Post by sdshooter on Jan 16, 2021 11:08:51 GMT -5
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Post by ajm on Jan 17, 2021 0:56:16 GMT -5
Impressive article and research on a serious subject, especially coming from a college freshman.
If Cummings does further work on this topic, I hope she will invite comments and discussion from pro women’s players. Although she did include quotes from April Ross taken from a four year old ESPN article, I think more public support from AVP athletes would be quite impactful.
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Post by COVAlove on Jan 17, 2021 23:58:58 GMT -5
I didn’t see in the article where it is mandatory to wear a Bikini/2-piece. I do agree it’s stupid that there are levels or programs where they standard issue a bikini without consulting the athlete. Those programs should be made to offer more options to the athletes and not promote the Bikini as the only option. Outside of that as far as I know there are no rules that make you wear one. Just like there is no rule against wearing a long sleeve shirt under your jersey in college basketball. Most don’t do it for various reasons. But you can if you want. She has the same freedom. To me this is just another person screaming for attention through victim hood. Norms exist everywhere and for all kinds of reasons. They are called norms and not laws for a reason.
She’s actually calling for normalizing something differently than has already been normalized because it’s not her preference. Normalizing. Wow. I wish we would normalize not driving in the left lane unless you’re passing another car. I’ll start writing.
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Post by guest2 on Jan 18, 2021 1:59:23 GMT -5
I didn’t see in the article where it is mandatory to wear a Bikini/2-piece. I do agree it’s stupid that there are levels or programs where they standard issue a bikini without consulting the athlete. Those programs should be made to offer more options to the athletes and not promote the Bikini as the only option. Outside of that as far as I know there are no rules that make you wear one. Just like there is no rule against wearing a long sleeve shirt under your jersey in college basketball. Most don’t do it for various reasons. But you can if you want. She has the same freedom. To me this is just another person screaming for attention through victim hood. Norms exist everywhere and for all kinds of reasons. They are called norms and not laws for a reason. She’s actually calling for normalizing something differently than has already been normalized because it’s not her preference. Normalizing. Wow. I wish we would normalize not driving in the left lane unless you’re passing another car. I’ll start writing. She is calling for that and one of the reasons is the current norm is so unhealthy. You have pro players with access to elite training advice and facilities who nevertheless develop eating disorders at insanely high rates and almost always select to wear clothing that is not close to ideal for its function. Thats the current norm and needs to be changed. I wouldn't say that its the most well written piece but her overall points are valid. First there is a lot of pressure on female athletes to be beautiful and to have a certain type of body. There was an article in the NYT a few years ago where many top tennis players essentially said, "I'd like to be no. 1 but not if it means looking like Serena." In other words they intentionally sabotaged their professional careers to maintain "feminine" figures. Bikinis are mandatory as far as I know on the FIVB (this was incorrect per Wilsu's post) and on the AVP, when female players wear anything else its regularly commented on and they stand out - see the "onesie" teams. That is different at the college level and for juniors, but its also very hard as a teen, particularly a female teen, to go against the grain. Why not mandate something less revealing at least for the 16U and below levels? What damage would that do to the sport and it would certainly benefit many young women. Also in BVB, how many sponsors do you think an AVP female athlete playing in shorts and a T would get? |
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Post by wilsu on Jan 18, 2021 2:46:18 GMT -5
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Post by ajm on Jan 18, 2021 15:25:40 GMT -5
It seems like the article is saying the pressure to wear bikinis is not necessarily coming from the governing bodies but the players themselves, especially at the junior levels. Players who don’t wear bikinis are stigmatized as not being serious players. I think it may take a few successful pros wearing alternative attire to change that perception. |
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proftubed
Sophomore
"Remember, no matter where you go, there you are."
Posts: 125
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Post by proftubed on Jan 18, 2021 18:56:32 GMT -5
Good for Caitlin for speaking up! Body issues and eating disorders are a serious problem in girls volleyball (indoor and beach). I hope Caitlin keeps up the good fight.
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Post by southbay11 on Jan 18, 2021 22:23:55 GMT -5
I didn’t see in the article where it is mandatory to wear a Bikini/2-piece. I do agree it’s stupid that there are levels or programs where they standard issue a bikini without consulting the athlete. Those programs should be made to offer more options to the athletes and not promote the Bikini as the only option. Outside of that as far as I know there are no rules that make you wear one. Just like there is no rule against wearing a long sleeve shirt under your jersey in college basketball. Most don’t do it for various reasons. But you can if you want. She has the same freedom. To me this is just another person screaming for attention through victim hood. Norms exist everywhere and for all kinds of reasons. They are called norms and not laws for a reason. She’s actually calling for normalizing something differently than has already been normalized because it’s not her preference. Normalizing. Wow. I wish we would normalize not driving in the left lane unless you’re passing another car. I’ll start writing. She is calling for that and one of the reasons is the current norm is so unhealthy. You have pro players with access to elite training advice and facilities who nevertheless develop eating disorders at insanely high rates and almost always select to wear clothing that is not close to ideal for its function. Thats the current norm and needs to be changed. I wouldn't say that its the most well written piece but her overall points are valid. First there is a lot of pressure on female athletes to be beautiful and to have a certain type of body. There was an article in the NYT a few years ago where many top tennis players essentially said, "I'd like to be no. 1 but not if it means looking like Serena." In other words they intentionally sabotaged their professional careers to maintain "feminine" figures. Bikinis are mandatory as far as I know on the FIVB and on the AVP, when female players wear anything else its regularly commented on and they stand out - see the "onesie" teams. That is different at the college level and for juniors, but its also very hard as a teen, particularly a female teen, to go against the grain. Why not mandate something less revealing at least for the 16U and below levels? What damage would that do to the sport and it would certainly benefit many young women. Also in BVB, how many sponsors do you think an AVP female athlete playing in shorts and a T would get? Bathing suits are not mandatory on the FIVB or AVP. FIVB they can wear what they want they just have to match. As for the AVP; my wife chose a tshirt and leggings for her morning matches at the Champions Cup. They too, can wear what they want as long as the color matches on AVP. The FIVB does prohibit long sleeves in some cases/events. |
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Post by guest2 on Jan 18, 2021 23:34:56 GMT -5
She is calling for that and one of the reasons is the current norm is so unhealthy. You have pro players with access to elite training advice and facilities who nevertheless develop eating disorders at insanely high rates and almost always select to wear clothing that is not close to ideal for its function. Thats the current norm and needs to be changed. I wouldn't say that its the most well written piece but her overall points are valid. First there is a lot of pressure on female athletes to be beautiful and to have a certain type of body. There was an article in the NYT a few years ago where many top tennis players essentially said, "I'd like to be no. 1 but not if it means looking like Serena." In other words they intentionally sabotaged their professional careers to maintain "feminine" figures. Bikinis are mandatory as far as I know on the FIVB and on the AVP, when female players wear anything else its regularly commented on and they stand out - see the "onesie" teams. That is different at the college level and for juniors, but its also very hard as a teen, particularly a female teen, to go against the grain. Why not mandate something less revealing at least for the 16U and below levels? What damage would that do to the sport and it would certainly benefit many young women. Also in BVB, how many sponsors do you think an AVP female athlete playing in shorts and a T would get? Bathing suits are not mandatory on the FIVB or AVP. FIVB they can wear what they want they just have to match. As for the AVP; my wife chose a tshirt and leggings for her morning matches at the Champions Cup. They too, can wear what they want as long as the color matches on AVP. The FIVB does prohibit long sleeves in some cases/events. Tried to correct this in the OP, but for some reason it made a new post. Ill try again |
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Post by VB48 on Jan 19, 2021 18:25:40 GMT -5
Why do so many people believe they know what is best for everyone else?
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 20, 2021 1:15:15 GMT -5
Based on the "swimwear" used at our local beach, I think "bikini" is tantamount to 1920's "swimwear" . . . Not sure where this competitive beachware is going, but maybe the old adage: "If you don't want to wear a something, don't", works fine for most of us . . . The "onesie" recently given some focus, wasn't much less provocative than the two-piece in many regards. In fifty years, they'll be laughing at us all . . . AS we do fifty years back . . .
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Post by kballer9 on Jan 21, 2021 14:00:49 GMT -5
What a great article. Very mature. |
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Post by guest2 on Jan 22, 2021 0:43:34 GMT -5
Based on the "swimwear" used at our local beach, I think "bikini" is tantamount to 1920's "swimwear" . . . Not sure where this competitive beachware is going, but maybe the old adage: "If you don't want to wear a something, don't", works fine for most of us . . . The "onesie" recently given some focus, wasn't much less provocative than the two-piece in many regards. In fifty years, they'll be laughing at us all . . . AS we do fifty years back . . . For adults fine, but what about for a junior who perhaps is a little chubby. Not fat or unhealthy, but just not Laura Ludwig at age 15. Realistically what probably happens is that girl chooses not to play. A sport where women at all levels wear so little has a lot of built in issues and I dont think its healthy for the game to dismiss them with "wear what you want." But if people don't think there is a ton of pressure on women and girls in this respect, I think the easiest way to find out is to just ask them |
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Post by newbeach on Jan 26, 2021 23:13:31 GMT -5
I know a lot of collegiate and former collegiate players. Some players that I know that are/wereindoor players and they would not have played beach if they had to wear a bikini (for some, that is exactly why they originally chose indoor instead). Some of these players have a low body fat but are self-conscious because they didn’t grow up in the beach environment. Others have a small “tummy” (read skinny but not completely flat) and so don’t feel comfortable in a bikini.
I also know beach players who eat far less than their caloric needs just to stay thin for their bikinis. For a lot of these players, it has become a badge of honour of sorts to have “abs” and tiny waists.
Some players are more self-conscious about their buttocks too.
I don’t really have a point, other than I support expanding the “required” uniform to include tights, shorts, singlets, short sleeves, long sleeves, onesies, etc. I think there are so many options so why not have a choice (so long as the match)?
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Post by volleyballjim on Jan 27, 2021 13:12:32 GMT -5
Based on the "swimwear" used at our local beach, I think "bikini" is tantamount to 1920's "swimwear" . . . Not sure where this competitive beachware is going, but maybe the old adage: "If you don't want to wear a something, don't", works fine for most of us . . . The "onesie" recently given some focus, wasn't much less provocative than the two-piece in many regards. In fifty years, they'll be laughing at us all . . . AS we do fifty years back . . . For adults fine, but what about for a junior who perhaps is a little chubby. Not fat or unhealthy, but just not Laura Ludwig at age 15. Realistically what probably happens is that girl chooses not to play. A sport where women at all levels wear so little has a lot of built in issues and I dont think its healthy for the game to dismiss them with "wear what you want." But if people don't think there is a ton of pressure on women and girls in this respect, I think the easiest way to find out is to just ask them Completely agree...It's getting a bit ridiculous at Main Beach (Santa Cruz) when these "actual kids" U16 dress like I witnessed in Rio de Janiero in 1989 . . . Not sure you can regulate it as fashion, like it or not, is a difficult 800 lb gorilla in the room . . . |
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