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Post by JB Southpaw on Jan 25, 2021 14:45:16 GMT -5
I'd rather they boycott the FIVB, while still being able to send players to the Olympics. Find a real domestic sponsor and tv deal, get some of the college (Men) to go straight from indoor to the beach instead of playing 2nd or 3rd tier indoor abroad. Champagne wishes and caviar dreams unfortunately. A lot of people smarter than I, are trying and have tried to make US beach volleyball into something lucrative, for themselves as well as for the athletes. I really really hate this phrase, but right now, it just "Is what it is". We keep wanting the AVP to get better sponsors, better TV deals, bigger and better this and that. There are also very smart people running those TV companies and potential sponsors...if the viewers aren't there, they just aren't there. I want it to be huge, just like everyone on here, but I think managing our expectations is a wise course of action. Oh yeah, wasn't saying it was going to happen, just playing the "I'd rather" game. The best chance is a women's centric company sees the incredible participation numbers of girls/women and decides this is where they want to spend some money, and the men get drawn along.
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Post by stevieofmb on Jan 25, 2021 16:02:25 GMT -5
Champagne wishes and caviar dreams unfortunately. A lot of people smarter than I, are trying and have tried to make US beach volleyball into something lucrative, for themselves as well as for the athletes. I really really hate this phrase, but right now, it just "Is what it is". We keep wanting the AVP to get better sponsors, better TV deals, bigger and better this and that. There are also very smart people running those TV companies and potential sponsors...if the viewers aren't there, they just aren't there. I want it to be huge, just like everyone on here, but I think managing our expectations is a wise course of action. Oh yeah, wasn't saying it was going to happen, just playing the "I'd rather" game. The best chance is a women's centric company sees the incredible participation numbers of girls/women and decides this is where they want to spend some money, and the men get drawn along. Talk about a turnaround - in the 90's, it was the men's tour that was supporting and carrying the women's tour!!
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Post by graham on Jan 25, 2021 21:09:55 GMT -5
Perhaps more interesting as a discussion, but like I said, I would rather watch a run of the mill men's match than the same on the women's side. I think you actually made my point, instead of me missing it. Cancel the AVP, and have a domestic FIVB tour; they have deep enough pockets to run 8-10 (or so) events over here. The US folks would play and the foreign folks would come over too. Perhaps having more exposure domestically, from a foreign source, would lure more fellas to play beach volleyball instead of basketball, football baseball, etc. They can't become rich as a mid-level pro in another sport, but could make a good living playing this one. I agree that the US men, as a discussion point and in sheer numbers, are limited compared to the ladies; but outside of a premier matchup or event...I'm not making an appointment to watch women's beach volleyball. I'll watch a 10 seed take on a qualifier on the men's side, can't say I would do the same on the women's side, UNLESS it were a big event. The FIVB works completely different than the AVP. Almost all events are put on by independent promoters, it is up to them to secure the bulk of the prize money and handle the majority of the logistics, as well as fronting the costs of holding the event. The FIVB does kick in some money from their title sponsor and offer some support for logistics, but they basically outline what a promoter needs to provide for each level (1*-5*) and then sanctions the event. If the event tanks, the bulk of the financial risk and loss is on the promoter not the FIVB.
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Post by beavis on Jan 25, 2021 22:48:37 GMT -5
Why on earth would anyone "lobby to get rid of the AVP altogether?" Why would that possibly be a benefit to our players and fans? The FIVB obviously has little interest in putting on 5 or more tournaments on US soil - if they did, they would have been doing so a long time ago. Whether you prefer watching and following men or women is obviously something you can feel strongly about, but why anyone would suggest lobbying a privately-owned U.S Tour to be done away with is beyond my limited comprehension skills. Especially if you have ever attended an AVP event in person in the past 5 years, which for some reason, I doubt that winbabywin has.
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Post by tamz on Jan 27, 2021 14:26:33 GMT -5
On Sandcast today, its mentioned that the FIVB prelim calendar will drop on Feb. 1st.
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Post by haze on Jan 27, 2021 16:42:59 GMT -5
You guys think the men's game is hard to follow now, just wait 3 years. I predict in 3 years the men's tour with be at an all time low in terms of high level product, and for a sport that is hanging by a thread because of the diehard grassroot fans, that is not a good thing.
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Post by stephenasinjin on Jan 27, 2021 16:51:11 GMT -5
Everyone has been talking about how we need more potential fivb caliber blockers, more players to transfer from indoor etc. Lets look on the bright side:
1. Benesh could make some huge strides this year playing with Billy Allen as the AVPs most promising young blocker.
2. Budinger looks better and better each year. Look for him to be the top US blocker (not counting Tri or Trevor here) available in 2022 once Phil and Jake retire. Everyone always talks about how defenders need a solid blocker to even have a chance behind them... same can be true in reverse. High lines don’t have to be nearly as crisp when Casey is behind you vs. Lucena or Taylor. He’ll continue to improve, I’m excited for where he could potentially be.
3. James Shaw, a skilled, large, physical indoor prospect is transferring to the beach at 27 years old. He brings a strong setting and blocking pedigree as both a setter and RS.
4. Theo is Theo. I’ll never get particularly excited about his game, but he’s motivated to make a push for 2024 with Schalk, and he added handsetting to his game this past year.
Not as gloomy as we thought.
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Post by haze on Jan 27, 2021 20:40:15 GMT -5
Everyone has been talking about how we need more potential fivb caliber blockers, more players to transfer from indoor etc. Lets look on the bright side: 1. Benesh could make some huge strides this year playing with Billy Allen as the AVPs most promising young blocker. 2. Budinger looks better and better each year. Look for him to be the top US blocker (not counting Tri or Trevor here) available in 2022 once Phil and Jake retire. Everyone always talks about how defenders need a solid blocker to even have a chance behind them... same can be true in reverse. High lines don’t have to be nearly as crisp when Casey is behind you vs. Lucena or Taylor. He’ll continue to improve, I’m excited for where he could potentially be. 3. James Shaw, a skilled, large, physical indoor prospect is transferring to the beach at 27 years old. He brings a strong setting and blocking pedigree as both a setter and RS. 4. Theo is Theo. I’ll never get particularly excited about his game, but he’s motivated to make a push for 2024 with Schalk, and he added handsetting to his game this past year. Not as gloomy as we thought. That's pretty gloomy man. Benesh is a wildcard. He could be very solid and I think is trending that way. Budinger is going to be 34 in right around his prime. He's a really good player who has done absolutely nothing Internationally. That doesn't really affect the AVP though. James Shaw is a complete enigma. He is transitioning from indoor and we are already hoping for him to be among the tops in 2 years (This is how bad it looks especially from a big standpoint). Any list that has Theo among the best is worrisome. He is arguably USA's most dynamic big at blocking, but he isn't particularly good at anything else. Keep in mind this is an argument for the AVP, and not Internationally. The world right now is dominated by young 25 year old players (and some who are younger), who are just going to continue to get better in 2 years. I don't even want to think about what 2022 and beyond Internationally will look like with what's coming up in our current pipeline.
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Post by butteryhands on Jan 28, 2021 0:42:08 GMT -5
I don't care how gloomy and dire the men's talent pool becomes. There's no way the women are carrying the tour.
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Post by 405LAX on Jan 28, 2021 1:50:55 GMT -5
If you removed the men from AVP tournaments, crowds would be 1/3th what they are now at best.
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Post by guest2 on Jan 28, 2021 3:33:58 GMT -5
Everyone has been talking about how we need more potential fivb caliber blockers, more players to transfer from indoor etc. Lets look on the bright side: 1. Benesh could make some huge strides this year playing with Billy Allen as the AVPs most promising young blocker. 2. Budinger looks better and better each year. Look for him to be the top US blocker (not counting Tri or Trevor here) available in 2022 once Phil and Jake retire. Everyone always talks about how defenders need a solid blocker to even have a chance behind them... same can be true in reverse. High lines don’t have to be nearly as crisp when Casey is behind you vs. Lucena or Taylor. He’ll continue to improve, I’m excited for where he could potentially be. 3. James Shaw, a skilled, large, physical indoor prospect is transferring to the beach at 27 years old. He brings a strong setting and blocking pedigree as both a setter and RS. 4. Theo is Theo. I’ll never get particularly excited about his game, but he’s motivated to make a push for 2024 with Schalk, and he added handsetting to his game this past year. Not as gloomy as we thought. That's pretty gloomy man. Benesh is a wildcard. He could be very solid and I think is trending that way. Budinger is going to be 34 in right around his prime. He's a really good player who has done absolutely nothing Internationally. That doesn't really affect the AVP though. James Shaw is a complete enigma. He is transitioning from indoor and we are already hoping for him to be among the tops in 2 years (This is how bad it looks especially from a big standpoint). Any list that has Theo among the best is worrisome. He is arguably USA's most dynamic big at blocking, but he isn't particularly good at anything else. Keep in mind this is an argument for the AVP, and not Internationally. The world right now is dominated by young 25 year old players (and some who are younger), who are just going to continue to get better in 2 years. I don't even want to think about what 2022 and beyond Internationally will look like with what's coming up in our current pipeline. Unfortunately I think this is right on. Chase is already old and often seems to play with less than 100% intensity. At the moment he isnt really an international level blocker. He is good, and could hold his own in a 3 star, but looking at guys like Evandro, Stoya, Mol, Phil, etc. they are in a far different class. Same goes for Benesh. He is young - for an American - but when you watch him move and swing he has so far to go. Many teams were choosing to serve him rather than the 5'11 Beranek. He is 1-3 years away from even being as effective as Theo on the World Tour. We know what Theo is, blah Of these guys, the only one who I could see ever being on a top tier international team is Shaw and thats mostly because I know so little about him.
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Post by povolley on Jan 28, 2021 11:18:02 GMT -5
That's pretty gloomy man. Benesh is a wildcard. He could be very solid and I think is trending that way. Budinger is going to be 34 in right around his prime. He's a really good player who has done absolutely nothing Internationally. That doesn't really affect the AVP though. James Shaw is a complete enigma. He is transitioning from indoor and we are already hoping for him to be among the tops in 2 years (This is how bad it looks especially from a big standpoint). Any list that has Theo among the best is worrisome. He is arguably USA's most dynamic big at blocking, but he isn't particularly good at anything else. Keep in mind this is an argument for the AVP, and not Internationally. The world right now is dominated by young 25 year old players (and some who are younger), who are just going to continue to get better in 2 years. I don't even want to think about what 2022 and beyond Internationally will look like with what's coming up in our current pipeline. Unfortunately I think this is right on. Chase is already old and often seems to play with less than 100% intensity. At the moment he isnt really an international level blocker. He is good, and could hold his own in a 3 star, but looking at guys like Evandro, Stoya, Mol, Phil, etc. they are in a far different class. Same goes for Benesh. He is young - for an American - but when you watch him move and swing he has so far to go. Many teams were choosing to serve him rather than the 5'11 Beranek. He is 1-3 years away from even being as effective as Theo on the World Tour. We know what Theo is, blah Of these guys, the only one who I could see ever being on a top tier international team is Shaw and thats mostly because I know so little about him. This last sentence cracked me up. / Gotta keep the faith guys. Need to find young talent or diamonds in the rough then develop the hell out of them if they're about the grind. (I know, easier said than done)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2021 11:39:31 GMT -5
how can these young potential blockers take overseas money(or a job at wendys) over the allure of a breakout season like benesh and earn...$3,725?
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Post by Winbabywin on Jan 28, 2021 12:19:11 GMT -5
Why on earth would anyone "lobby to get rid of the AVP altogether?" Why would that possibly be a benefit to our players and fans? The FIVB obviously has little interest in putting on 5 or more tournaments on US soil - if they did, they would have been doing so a long time ago. Whether you prefer watching and following men or women is obviously something you can feel strongly about, but why anyone would suggest lobbying a privately-owned U.S Tour to be done away with is beyond my limited comprehension skills. Especially if you have ever attended an AVP event in person in the past 5 years, which for some reason, I doubt that winbabywin has. Ooohh beavis, you only prove to solidify similar intelligence to your cartoon namesake. I've been to numerous AVP events in the last few years, both as a player and as a spectator. I didn't bash the AVP, and I didn't lobby for the FIVB to take over. I said the AVP, for the foreseeable future, is going to be what it has been for the last decade. People keep wondering why it isn't the NBA or PGA or NHL, or why sponsors aren't lined up to throw their money away. It is what it is! The FIVB could give it a go here and maybe do well with local promoters, I don't know. It was an idea, not a suggestion...unless you are familiar with any other major beach volleyball tours who are raking in millions of dollars...
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Post by ajm on Jan 28, 2021 13:01:35 GMT -5
how can these young potential blockers take overseas money(or a job at wendys) over the allure of a breakout season like benesh and earn...$3,725? Kind of gets back to the question of why guys like Mol, Oleg, Thole, etc. are passing up potential six figure indoor salaries in their early 20s but no top US players seem willing to do so. Are these other federations paying more to lure their guys out to the beach?
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