|
|
Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Apr 6, 2021 22:30:51 GMT -5
Korea with the twins gone? no way South Korea decided to sabotage themselves on that one. So if that's the case, it means Japan will have an easier time. Funny enough, the twins are filing a lawsuit against the accuser for spreading lies.
My understanding is that some of the stuff said were lies, some were truth.
|
|
|
|
Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Apr 6, 2021 22:41:36 GMT -5
Does anyone in Pool A have any meaningful depth? I know the dropoff from A to B might not be equal among the teams, but it does seem that there is very significant drop off for all of them should their be injuries or unexpected player availability . . . I mean...if Serbia loses Mihajlovic, Ognjenovic, or Boskovic, I think they’re out of medal contention. Brazil doesn’t have any other top-notch pins aside from Natalia, Gabi, and Tandara. I honestly think USA, China, and Italy are the deepest teams at this Olympics where outside of their big guns, they have players that can still contribute at a high level on the bench. Turkey has a little bit of depth, but most teams have a pretty sizable dropoff from their starters to bench, especially on the pins. I’m not sure I’m forgetting anyone. China has pretty much nobody other than the starting 7 plus Li Yingying. Neither Yuan Xinyue nor Yan Ni has a decent backup, Yao Di is clearly worse compared to Ding Xia (but she might be better with weaker hitters... idk why), the 4th OH and 2nd OPP are just there as tourists practically speaking, etc, etc.
USA has a lot of similar OHs, MBs, and setters, so I agree with you on that.
For Italy, they also have some depth, but bosetti, egonu, and de gennaro have no replacement.
I don't think Serbia will be missing Mihajlovic that much. When was the last time she had a decent performance? 2018 WCh Finals?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 1:21:43 GMT -5
I love how folks argue that China didn't take the VNL seriously when in fact, from week 2 onwards, Lang Ping played the A team and went 11 and 1, only dropping two sets to Italy. All other victories were sweeps. China and the USA finished 1 and 2 on the table.
This was the A team's only loss. In this match, Carlini and MBH joined the team fresh off of their Champions League Title and both started for the first time with the team that season. Robinson didn't have a single kill in the first set and then hit 18/24 finishing with 20 points in the 3-0 sweep.
To be fair, this was probably China's worst game of the prelims with the A team. But, it just goes to show that if one of these top teams has an off day, like the USA did during the World Cup, both teams are capable of trampling the other.
|
|
|
|
Post by basil on Apr 7, 2021 1:23:29 GMT -5
I mean...if Serbia loses Mihajlovic, Ognjenovic, or Boskovic, I think they’re out of medal contention. Brazil doesn’t have any other top-notch pins aside from Natalia, Gabi, and Tandara. I honestly think USA, China, and Italy are the deepest teams at this Olympics where outside of their big guns, they have players that can still contribute at a high level on the bench. Turkey has a little bit of depth, but most teams have a pretty sizable dropoff from their starters to bench, especially on the pins. I’m not sure I’m forgetting anyone. China has pretty much nobody other than the starting 7 plus Li Yingying. Neither Yuan Xinyue nor Yan Ni has a decent backup, Yao Di is clearly worse compared to Ding Xia (but she might be better with weaker hitters... idk why), the 4th OH and 2nd OPP are just there as tourists practically speaking, etc, etc.
USA has a lot of similar OHs, MBs, and setters, so I agree with you on that.
For Italy, they also have some depth, but bosetti, egonu, and de gennaro have no replacement.
I don't think Serbia will be missing Mihajlovic that much. When was the last time she had a decent performance? 2018 WCh Finals?
She was playing fine to my eye during the 2019 Euro Champs. Really it’s only been after this COVID break that she hasn’t looked “normal” to me. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Apr 7, 2021 5:16:18 GMT -5
South Korea decided to sabotage themselves on that one. So if that's the case, it means Japan will have an easier time. Funny enough, the twins are filing a lawsuit against the accuser for spreading lies.
My understanding is that some of the stuff said were lies, some were truth.
Like I suspected, there is a lot more going here than just a "bullying" case. Politics and power plays are likely a factor behind-the-scenes. The Korean volleyball federation, if they had any sense, would get the twins back for the NT. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Apr 7, 2021 5:20:31 GMT -5
To be fair, this was probably China's worst game of the prelims with the A team. But, it just goes to show that if one of these top teams has an off day, like the USA did during the World Cup, both teams are capable of trampling the other. Bringing in their A team doesn't necessarily mean China is bringing them to win though...  |
|
|
|
Post by Wichsen on Apr 7, 2021 5:23:55 GMT -5
And china sweep usa in world cup. USA almost used all players except i think hill? Should have starter with mbh in set 3.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 10:34:02 GMT -5
To be fair, this was probably China's worst game of the prelims with the A team. But, it just goes to show that if one of these top teams has an off day, like the USA did during the World Cup, both teams are capable of trampling the other. Bringing in their A team doesn't necessarily mean China is bringing them to win though... I guess I just not a fan of the narrative that coaches and athletes aren't "trying to win". If that were ever proven, thats really sh*tty sportsmanship and there should be penalties. Like big ones. That is why I am glad that the FIVB gave the VNL a lot more weight in the world ranking so that teams who continually ignore it will suffer the consequences by possibly getting a bad seed in a major tournament or two. I also don't like the idea that certain teams think they are "so good" that they don't have to try that hard. That really irritates me as a fan of the sport. I'm not saying that all federations should constantly send their A-squad to this tournament, but if your team makes the final, like China did as hosts, it should be unacceptable to not send your best players TO THE FINALS. Look at Italy, they sent their best to the finals and got their noses bloodied by Turkey and China's B team and were eliminated. Are you saying that they also weren't trying? They certainly looked bad IMO. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just not buying this argument. China is not so mighty that they are unbeatable. No team is. A win is a win and a loss is a loss. I just loathe the whole "they aren't taking it seriously" argument. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Apr 7, 2021 10:37:38 GMT -5
Bringing in their A team doesn't necessarily mean China is bringing them to win though... I guess I just not a fan of the narrative that coaches and athletes aren't "trying to win". If that were ever proven, thats really sh*tty sportsmanship and there should be penalties. Like big ones. That is why I am glad that the FIVB gave the VNL a lot more weight in the world ranking so that teams who continually ignore it will suffer the consequences by possibly getting a bad seed in a major tournament or two. I also don't like the idea that certain teams think they are "so good" that they don't have to try that hard. That really irritates me as a fan of the sport. I'm not saying that all federations should constantly send their A-squad to this tournament, but if your team makes the final, like China did as hosts, it should be unacceptable to not send your best players TO THE FINALS. Look at Italy, they sent their best to the finals and got their noses bloodied by Turkey and China's B team and were eliminated. Are you saying that they also weren't trying? They certainly looked bad IMO. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just not buying this argument. China is not so mighty that they are unbeatable. No team is. A win is a win and a loss is a loss. I just loathe the whole "they aren't taking it seriously" argument. I'm not saying I like that either. But whether I like that or not, I am simply looking at the actual performance and the way China sets up their roster and the way they play, it becomes evident they aren't always going for the win in all cases in the WGP and VNL. And Lang Ping's own words too, she has been on record calling the VNL a "training camp" before: www.scmp.com/sport/china/article/2148159/china-treating-nations-league-hong-kong-training-camp-says-volleyball |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 10:45:23 GMT -5
I guess I just not a fan of the narrative that coaches and athletes aren't "trying to win". If that were ever proven, thats really sh*tty sportsmanship and there should be penalties. Like big ones. That is why I am glad that the FIVB gave the VNL a lot more weight in the world ranking so that teams who continually ignore it will suffer the consequences by possibly getting a bad seed in a major tournament or two. I also don't like the idea that certain teams think they are "so good" that they don't have to try that hard. That really irritates me as a fan of the sport. I'm not saying that all federations should constantly send their A-squad to this tournament, but if your team makes the final, like China did as hosts, it should be unacceptable to not send your best players TO THE FINALS. Look at Italy, they sent their best to the finals and got their noses bloodied by Turkey and China's B team and were eliminated. Are you saying that they also weren't trying? They certainly looked bad IMO. I'm not trying to pick a fight here, I'm just not buying this argument. China is not so mighty that they are unbeatable. No team is. A win is a win and a loss is a loss. I just loathe the whole "they aren't taking it seriously" argument. I'm not saying I like that either. But whether I like that or not, I am simply looking at the actual performance and the way China sets up their roster and the way they play, it becomes evident they aren't always going for the win in all cases in the WGP and VNL. And Lang Ping's own words too, she has been on record calling the VNL a "training camp" before: www.scmp.com/sport/china/article/2148159/china-treating-nations-league-hong-kong-training-camp-says-volleyballI just don't think that Lang Ping brought the A-Team for most of that preliminary round just to "train". She came to make a statement and did just that. As I recall from the announcers of that USA match, both Yuan Xingyue and Wang Mengjie were slighly injured during that leg so that was why we didn't see Yuan until the 3rd set and Lin Li played the entire match (and played the worst I have ever seen her). I just don't like that everyone seems hellbent on delegitimizing what I feel was a complete beat down from the USA on that day. The same argument could be made that during the World Cup, the USA didn't start it's best lineup. Had Foluke and Thompson been there and had Carlini and JWO been starting, the outcome could have been very different IMO. Alas, I will give props where it is due to China. They played a stellar tournament and looked the best I have seen them in a long time. That tournament also didn't really matter as it wasn't an olympic qualifier. So which is it? BTW I love debating this with you. I am in no way "mad". I'm glad that you don't like it when teams don't "try to win" either. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Apr 7, 2021 10:48:04 GMT -5
I just don't think that Lang Ping brought the A-Team for most of that preliminary round just to "train". She came to make a statement and did just that. As I recall from the announcers of that USA match, both Yuan Xingyue and Wang Mengjie were slighly injured during that leg so that was why we didn't see Yuan until the 3rd set and Lin Li played the entire match (and played the worst I have ever seen her). just don't like that everyone seems hellbent on delegitimizing what I feel was a complete beat down from the USA on that day. The same argument could be made that during the World Cup, the USA didn't start it's best lineup. Had Foluke and Thompson been there and had Carlini and JWO been starting, the outcome could have been very different IMO. Alas, I will give props where it is due to China. They played a stellar tournament and looked the best I have seen them in a long time. That tournament also didn't really matter as it wasn't an olympic qualifier. So which is it? BTW I love debating this with you. I am in no way "mad". I'm glad that you don't like it when teams don't "try to win" either. Like I said, it gets boring if everyone agreed. Back to topic, I have watched many WGP and VNL matches (and actually was present in the stands in a quite a number of them), so I know what I am talking about. China aren't playing to win in all cases. I don't know why you would doubt Lang Ping's own words. She said it herself in the linked article above. Given China's caliber, if they really wanted to win, they surely could have won more than just 1 WGP title so far. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 10:51:19 GMT -5
I guess the point I am trying to make here is that we really haven't seen USA's best form/line-up yet mainly due to the sheer depth of talent on the roster and with certain players injured/pregnant/unavailable.
I guarantee I would get crucified on here by certain posters (you know who they are) if I tried to argue that the USA wasn't "trying" to win the World Cup or any other tournament. I honestly don't think they were since Poulter was starting and, honestly, didn't look as good as Carlini just yet. Carlini's all around game is better still IMO.
I think that tournament was to see if Poulter could set Karch's stupid system under pressure. I would give her a B-. We also were missing several key players (Akinradewo, Adams, and Thompson). Now at present, I'm not so sure who looks the best at ANY position. We will get to see that play out in the VNL.
Thanks for hearing me out. 😊
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2021 10:52:36 GMT -5
I just don't think that Lang Ping brought the A-Team for most of that preliminary round just to "train". She came to make a statement and did just that. As I recall from the announcers of that USA match, both Yuan Xingyue and Wang Mengjie were slighly injured during that leg so that was why we didn't see Yuan until the 3rd set and Lin Li played the entire match (and played the worst I have ever seen her). just don't like that everyone seems hellbent on delegitimizing what I feel was a complete beat down from the USA on that day. The same argument could be made that during the World Cup, the USA didn't start it's best lineup. Had Foluke and Thompson been there and had Carlini and JWO been starting, the outcome could have been very different IMO. Alas, I will give props where it is due to China. They played a stellar tournament and looked the best I have seen them in a long time. That tournament also didn't really matter as it wasn't an olympic qualifier. So which is it? BTW I love debating this with you. I am in no way "mad". I'm glad that you don't like it when teams don't "try to win" either. Like I said, it gets boring if everyone agreed. Back to topic, I have watched many WGP and VNL matches (and actually was present in the stands in a quite a number of them), so I know what I am talking about. China aren't playing to win in all cases. I don't know why you would doubt Lang Ping's own words. She said it herself in the linked article above. Given China's caliber, if they really wanted to win, they surely could have won more than just 1 WGP title so far. I agree. I think that's crap if they aren't trying. That's all. It is what it is and I can do zilch about it. |
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Apr 7, 2021 10:53:10 GMT -5
I guess the point I am trying to make here is that we really haven't seen USA's best form/line-up yet mainly due to the sheer depth of talent on the roster and with certain players injured/pregnant/unavailable. I guarantee I would get crucified if I tried to argue that the USA wasn't "trying" to win the World Cup. I honestly don't think they were since Poulter was starting and, honestly, didn't look as good as Carlini just yet. We also were missing several key players (Akinradewo, Adams, and Thompson). Now at present, I'm not so sure who looks the best at ANY position. We will get to see that play out in the VNL. Thanks for hearing me out. 😊 Let's see how the US do in this VNL (assuming they send a team, assuming its the A team)...and what that can say... |
|
|
|
Post by ironhammer on Apr 7, 2021 10:54:19 GMT -5
Like I said, it gets boring if everyone agreed. Back to topic, I have watched many WGP and VNL matches (and actually was present in the stands in a quite a number of them), so I know what I am talking about. China aren't playing to win in all cases. I don't know why you would doubt Lang Ping's own words. She said it herself in the linked article above. Given China's caliber, if they really wanted to win, they surely could have won more than just 1 WGP title so far. I agree. I think that's crap if they aren't trying. That's all. It is what it is and I can do zilch about it. Well since FIVB is now making the VNL participation count for more in points ranking, teams will have to treat it more seriously... |
|
