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Post by mervinswerved on May 3, 2021 13:42:34 GMT -5
Interesting take. Did/do you have children playing Jr. vball currently? From my perspective, taking away the experiential nature and the involvement would diminish the demand for club sports in general, as parents pay for that experience. My kids aren't old enough yet. But many years of coaching and recruiting in those events. I think a walk through a 150 court event will put paid to that idea. The vast majority of the teams, even at "elite" events, are bad. The problem is, as the sport has grown, convention center tournaments are swallowing up all the small events. Why go to a rinky-dink eight team tournament at a high school when you can get the convention center feel, even if you're in the wood and dirt division of 16 American?
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Post by silverchloride on May 3, 2021 18:35:05 GMT -5
Interesting take. Did/do you have children playing Jr. vball currently? From my perspective, taking away the experiential nature and the involvement would diminish the demand for club sports in general, as parents pay for that experience. My kids aren't old enough yet. But many years of coaching and recruiting in those events. I think a walk through a 150 court event will put paid to that idea. The vast majority of the teams, even at "elite" events, are bad. The problem is, as the sport has grown, convention center tournaments are swallowing up all the small events. Why go to a rinky-dink eight team tournament at a high school when you can get the convention center feel, even if you're in the wood and dirt division of 16 American? I can only give my anecdotal experience here in SoCal. All of the club teams (that i specifically know of) for 16u up play (at least attempt to get a bid) in the Open division. All of the Jr. Girls on our 18s teams have commitments, almost all to D1 schools. To be fair, I am seeing the best young women players in America most of the time, but even if it was my daughter when she was six and the team could barely get the ball over the net, I loved it just the same =)
High School vball still fills the ability of kids to play w/o the exorbitant fees (even though many schools here go to the travel tourneys for high school as well through the PSGs). There are also Rec leagues as well that are not cost prohibitive, and if they are ready for a step up, there is Starlings.
I am also sure that the kids that participate in the wood and dirt division still love the game and are very happy to be able to participate in the events. Disneyland is uber expensive, but seeing the look on your child's face the first time you go is worth it. I am not a volleyball snob though and am very stoked to see the excitement and happiness of the players, even on the 15-9s team =)
P.S.- I am not a coach, scout, or club director and do not profit in any way from tournaments, or club =)
Straight outta Money vball Dad
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Post by reader on May 4, 2021 10:25:28 GMT -5
Yeah, no. There are tons of non-elite teams for 16u and 17u players at many price points all over the country. The real drop off is at 18; the larger clubs around here field four or five 16s teams, three or more 17s but only sporadic 18s. And we don't have much rec league around here past 14, but that's true in many sports where club, travel or whatever it's called completely takes over by 15. My DD just got done in Columbus playing against some very non-open teams from just about everywhere, and the fact is five tiers of 18s paid to travel to this event, about 300 teams in total, 56 in Patriot division. As said above, there are way more players and teams than Open level talent, and so by definition most are not elite. This sport is bigger than you imagine, or your definitions are poor, and many kids want a big end of season tournament even if it's the only substantial traveling they do all year.
EDIT: I want to point out that the high school season, even pre-covid, is pretty weak soup at most schools. As large as this sport has become there is still a very uneven distribution of talent and few schools can put together a solid starting six without some weak links on the court at all times. The top schools that draw players or are affluent enough for many to afford club do far better than most, so there's usually a third of a conference that are very good and the rest are not. My DD's school is a sports factory in most sports, usually including VB, but graduated hard two years ago and is facing a couple more years of bleak prospects. With no money on the table, little chance of winning, boys hanging around after school and a thousand other distractions it's often the case that the high school seasons devolves into petty crap faster than a club season that happens away from the school scene. Club is hardly immune to these problems, but the bar is lower at 3:00 in the school.
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Post by gtrich on May 4, 2021 11:49:56 GMT -5
<snip> EDIT: I want to point out that the high school season, even pre-covid, is pretty weak soup at most schools. As large as this sport has become there is still a very uneven distribution of talent and few schools can put together a solid starting six without some weak links on the court at all times. The top schools that draw players or are affluent enough for many to afford club do far better than most, so there's usually a third of a conference that are very good and the rest are not. My DD's school is a sports factory in most sports, usually including VB, but graduated hard two years ago and is facing a couple more years of bleak prospects. With no money on the table, little chance of winning, boys hanging around after school and a thousand other distractions it's often the case that the high school seasons devolves into petty crap faster than a club season that happens away from the school scene. Club is hardly immune to these problems, but the bar is lower at 3:00 in the school. I see the same thing at the high-school level in my school district with a slight twist; lack of good coaching (I won't even talk about the abysmal coaching at the middle school level). Unless your school managed to snap up one of the few good coaches that also wants to teach HS, you end up with highly talented teams that lose the majority of their games because they have a coach that doesn't know what they are doing. However, because they can spell volleyball or baseball or softball, they end up coaching a 15-18U level team for years and years. If that same coach went to one of the club teams down the street, they'd be lucky to get the coaching job for one of the 13U local teams. I know of a few girls on the volleyball side that dropped out of HS ball completely and only play club. The same thing occurs in softball, soccer, baseball. Many of these kids grow up thinking I'm going to play sport X in high-school, play their freshman year and then drop out of HS sports because it's such a train wreck or poor coaching and politics. In the past, you had to suck it up and keep playing on your bad HS team. With the explosion of club sports and more colleges moving their recruiting focus towards club only, parents are quickly learning that HS sports aren't the only game in town.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on May 4, 2021 12:01:03 GMT -5
<snip> EDIT: I want to point out that the high school season, even pre-covid, is pretty weak soup at most schools. As large as this sport has become there is still a very uneven distribution of talent and few schools can put together a solid starting six without some weak links on the court at all times. The top schools that draw players or are affluent enough for many to afford club do far better than most, so there's usually a third of a conference that are very good and the rest are not. My DD's school is a sports factory in most sports, usually including VB, but graduated hard two years ago and is facing a couple more years of bleak prospects. With no money on the table, little chance of winning, boys hanging around after school and a thousand other distractions it's often the case that the high school seasons devolves into petty crap faster than a club season that happens away from the school scene. Club is hardly immune to these problems, but the bar is lower at 3:00 in the school. With the explosion of club sports and more colleges moving their recruiting focus towards club only, parents are quickly learning that HS sports aren't the only game in town. In our State the high school board for sports had decided to move volleyball to the spring instead of summer with very little consideration that Spring is Club season. It felt like they thought that girls would opt for high school over Club as they weren't allowed to play both. The clubs offered a fall alternative which girls flocked to. The high school governing board reconvened and decided to have an abbreviated fall season instead. The whole thing was a mess and showed just how much juice Club volleyball has and how out of touch the High School board is.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on May 7, 2021 12:14:25 GMT -5
So far it looks like the livestream option for Crossroads has been hit or miss. Our parents have been complaining that it is cutting in and out and they have had to reload the whole thing.
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Post by winesalot on May 7, 2021 21:22:23 GMT -5
I'm enjoying watching this event so I don't want to read this entire thread. What I can tell you is...they are allowing tripods and I've watched 3 matches (so far) streamed by a team parent on FB live. Besides the limited attendance, it feels like a regular tourney.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on May 7, 2021 22:30:48 GMT -5
I'm enjoying watching this event so I don't want to read this entire thread. What I can tell you is...they are allowing tripods and I've watched 3 matches (so far) streamed by a team parent on FB live. Besides the limited attendance, it feels like a regular tourney. I'm somewhat glad to hear that although it would've been nice to know they're allowing tripods (or not heavily enforcing the tripod rule). We could've made arrangements to livestream it ourselves.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on May 8, 2021 0:46:01 GMT -5
From John Tawa's Daily Dots...
• Happy Friday, unless you’re a parent trying to get into the Colorado Crossroads Qualifier in Denver, in which case you’re probably very unhappy. The system that identifies and admits parents to the venue reportedly crashed, leaving no movement in a blocks-long line for at least 40 minutes less than one hour before first serve. Yikes!
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Post by silverchloride on May 8, 2021 3:19:35 GMT -5
From John Tawa's Daily Dots... • Happy Friday, unless you’re a parent trying to get into the Colorado Crossroads Qualifier in Denver, in which case you’re probably very unhappy. The system that identifies and admits parents to the venue reportedly crashed, leaving no movement in a blocks-long line for at least 40 minutes less than one hour before first serve. Yikes! =0
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Post by BuckysHeat on May 8, 2021 9:28:07 GMT -5
From John Tawa's Daily Dots... • Happy Friday, unless you’re a parent trying to get into the Colorado Crossroads Qualifier in Denver, in which case you’re probably very unhappy. The system that identifies and admits parents to the venue reportedly crashed, leaving no movement in a blocks-long line for at least 40 minutes less than one hour before first serve. Yikes! This is another beef with the way tourneys are being run. We are told to: Distance yourself Wear your mask No drinking while walking No standing Only one parent Kids wear masks while playing All in the name of "safety" and "prevention" So what do the tourneys tell you? No admittance until 30 minutes before first serve, all of you parents just stand outside together in a big group until we let you in.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2021 9:37:32 GMT -5
just stand outside together Outside. .... inside ....
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Post by eazy on May 8, 2021 10:20:57 GMT -5
From John Tawa's Daily Dots... • Happy Friday, unless you’re a parent trying to get into the Colorado Crossroads Qualifier in Denver, in which case you’re probably very unhappy. The system that identifies and admits parents to the venue reportedly crashed, leaving no movement in a blocks-long line for at least 40 minutes less than one hour before first serve. Yikes! This is another beef with the way tourneys are being run. We are told to: Distance yourself Wear your mask No drinking while walking No standing Only one parent Kids wear masks while playing All in the name of "safety" and "prevention" So what do the tourneys tell you? No admittance until 30 minutes before first serve, all of you parents just stand outside together in a big group until we let you in. What do parents do when they’re allowed inside an hour early? Sit in groups and chat and visit other courts/parents. What should they do when they aren’t allowed inside until 30 minutes early? Sit in their car as a family and wait. The parents making the choice to stand outside in a big group is on them. Parents don’t need to be inside until the playing starts unless they are part of the work team. 30 minutes is plenty of time to get in and to the court without waiting in line unless the tournament is poorly planned (too large with not enough entrances).
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on May 8, 2021 11:25:26 GMT -5
This is another beef with the way tourneys are being run. We are told to: Distance yourself Wear your mask No drinking while walking No standing Only one parent Kids wear masks while playing All in the name of "safety" and "prevention" So what do the tourneys tell you? No admittance until 30 minutes before first serve, all of you parents just stand outside together in a big group until we let you in. What do parents do when they’re allowed inside an hour early? Sit in groups and chat and visit other courts/parents. What should they do when they aren’t allowed inside until 30 minutes early? Sit in their car as a family and wait. The parents making the choice to stand outside in a big group is on them. Parents don’t need to be inside until the playing starts unless they are part of the work team. 30 minutes is plenty of time to get in and to the court without waiting in line unless the tournament is poorly planned (too large with not enough entrances). I think Bucky was speaking to Crossroads not wanting people to be inside the huge playing area but being fine with everyone congregating in the smaller lobby area. Yesterday was a mess from what I heard. Long line of parents waiting outside and the lines moving slowly. Computer crashed and there was problems processing the passes. No temperature checks like KC did and they barely looked at your vax proof. Chairs that were spread out got moved closer together by parents and a lot of "chinstrap masks".
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Post by eazy on May 8, 2021 13:16:32 GMT -5
What do parents do when they’re allowed inside an hour early? Sit in groups and chat and visit other courts/parents. What should they do when they aren’t allowed inside until 30 minutes early? Sit in their car as a family and wait. The parents making the choice to stand outside in a big group is on them. Parents don’t need to be inside until the playing starts unless they are part of the work team. 30 minutes is plenty of time to get in and to the court without waiting in line unless the tournament is poorly planned (too large with not enough entrances). I think Bucky was speaking to Crossroads not wanting people to be inside the huge playing area but being fine with everyone congregating in the smaller lobby area. Yesterday was a mess from what I heard. Long line of parents waiting outside and the lines moving slowly. Computer crashed and there was problems processing the passes. No temperature checks like KC did and they barely looked at your vax proof. Chairs that were spread out got moved closer together by parents and a lot of "chinstrap masks". Gotcha. As people mentioned above, it sounds like Crossroads had some real issues. I was only speaking to the general idea of having spectators in the building for as little time as possible.
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