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Post by eazy on Apr 29, 2021 0:47:29 GMT -5
Go back to your original post that i quoted: you said “polio is a one time shot for life” and your almost right if your counting polio shots and boosters! And corona is not like the common cold! Again my point; i want my fellow citizens to all want to get vaccinated for their and their country’s health and well being; dont want to lose anymore friends or family members! Yeah I looked it up and I was wrong. We typically get four shots during childhood and after that we're done. In terms of the strain of Corona, Covid is; is it closer related to the common cold than to the flu. Anybody that you've lost to illness is a sad and unfortunate tragedy. I still disagree with forcing people to do things against their will. Especially when it comes to injecting substances into one's body that have been hurried along and deemed safe without the usual trials (which typically take years to verify) and tests to back it up. You have lost people to Covid, I only know of people who have lost people to Covid so the threat takes on different proportions. I cannot justify forcing people to restrict their lives and freedoms, turn the country and the world upside down and forcing people into taking a vaccination they don't want to under the guise of public safety when the percentage of people lost is .017%. I understand and respect 99% of your post. But when you throw out the statistic of .017%, that means nothing to me. What percent is that? What does that number mean in real life? You hit the nail on the head, knowing someone who has died to Covid magnifies the feelings you have about it. I don’t know anyone that has died to it either, but I know plenty of people who do. That’s more than enough for me to justify losing some freedoms. If a doctor told me that they had to punch me in the face in order to save 5 strangers that 5 of my friends know, I’d curse and agree to it.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Apr 29, 2021 7:15:57 GMT -5
Yeah I looked it up and I was wrong. We typically get four shots during childhood and after that we're done. In terms of the strain of Corona, Covid is; is it closer related to the common cold than to the flu. Anybody that you've lost to illness is a sad and unfortunate tragedy. I still disagree with forcing people to do things against their will. Especially when it comes to injecting substances into one's body that have been hurried along and deemed safe without the usual trials (which typically take years to verify) and tests to back it up. You have lost people to Covid, I only know of people who have lost people to Covid so the threat takes on different proportions. I cannot justify forcing people to restrict their lives and freedoms, turn the country and the world upside down and forcing people into taking a vaccination they don't want to under the guise of public safety when the percentage of people lost is .017%. I understand and respect 99% of your post. But when you throw out the statistic of .017%, that means nothing to me. What percent is that? What does that number mean in real life? You hit the nail on the head, knowing someone who has died to Covid magnifies the feelings you have about it. I don’t know anyone that has died to it either, but I know plenty of people who do. That’s more than enough for me to justify losing some freedoms. If a doctor told me that they had to punch me in the face in order to save 5 strangers that 5 of my friends know, I’d curse and agree to it. 0.017% is WRONG !!! The amount of people whose deaths have been linked to or are directly because of Covid is 1.7% That means less than 2% OF 1% of the whole. (Separate 1% of the US pop. and less than 2% of THAT 1% have passed away) OR... out of the 32.8 million people in the US that have contracted Covid (Roughly 10% of the US population) 586,152 have died. This is an extremely survivable virus so why don't we protect those who are the most susceptible to it? The elderly and babies. From DAY ONE more should have been done to protect those groups (not to mention those who are obese or have pre-existing health concerns). From DAY TWO those in the concern category should have been FIRST in line for vaccination. But that is all could of, should of, would of. Now we're in a situation where two parents can't go and watch their daughter play in a Qualifier together (Denver) out of fear that they might catch a virus that 99.983% of the people have survived. Very few things in life are 100%, but I'm not willing to take a punch in the face for 99.983%. Out of courtesy I might wear a mask (the true effectiveness of that is for an entirely different thread) but I shouldn't have a vaccine forced on me.
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Post by crando on Apr 29, 2021 15:54:18 GMT -5
I understand and respect 99% of your post. But when you throw out the statistic of .017%, that means nothing to me. What percent is that? What does that number mean in real life? You hit the nail on the head, knowing someone who has died to Covid magnifies the feelings you have about it. I don’t know anyone that has died to it either, but I know plenty of people who do. That’s more than enough for me to justify losing some freedoms. If a doctor told me that they had to punch me in the face in order to save 5 strangers that 5 of my friends know, I’d curse and agree to it. 0.017% is the amount of people whose deaths have been linked to or are directly because of Covid. That means less than 2% OF 1% of the whole. (Separate 1% of the US pop. and less than 2% of THAT 1% have passed away) OR... out of the 32.8 million people in the US that have contracted Covid (Roughly 10% of the US population) 586,152 have died. This is an extremely survivable virus so why don't we protect those who are the most susceptible to it? The elderly and babies. From DAY ONE more should have been done to protect those groups (not to mention those who are obese or have pre-existing health concerns). From DAY TWO those in the concern category should have been FIRST in line for vaccination. But that is all could of, should of, would of. Now we're in a situation where two parents can't go and watch their daughter play in a Qualifier together (Denver) out of fear that they might catch a virus that 99.983% of the people have survived. Very few things in life are 100%, but I'm not willing to take a punch in the face for 99.983%. Out of courtesy I might wear a mask (the true effectiveness of that is for an entirely different thread) but I shouldn't have a vaccine forced on me. Canam -- you and I disagree on a number of things, but I respect your points, and I totally appreciate and respect your tone.
I'm guessing ( ) that the govt. in Denver, or Colorado, has reduced the maximum capacity of the building for Crossroads, and without limiting it to 1 spectator per player, they fear they would exceed that limit, and get fined/shut down. No doubt the Crossroads people would rather sell more spectator tickets, and more food, etc. It might not be their fault. But they're still greedy. And the policy where you have to physically come to the C.C. to check in the night before the tournament is ridiculous, and really soured me on the tournament. Along with their steadfast insistence last year that week 2 was going to happen, even after other qualifiers (and the NBA) closed up.
I get that I can wear a mask to the recital and be less concerned about the vaccination status of whoever might sit next to me. Or everyone can get vaccinated, and then maybe none of us need to wear masks. I'd prefer the latter. If my kid is going to school (cuz that's the law), I'd hope the parents of the kid that she's sitting next to are also using readily available methods to reduce the odds that their kid gets mine sick (and maybe thus gets my entire household sick too...).
People can express their right of personal freedom to drive 100 on the freeway, but at some point their personal freedom puts the lives of everyone else at additional risk. That's not the same as not getting vaccinated -- I don't think there should be a law that you could get a multi-hundred-dollar ticket for not being vaccinated. But it's similar in that, at some point, YOUR (not you specifically; the royal "you") choice to do whatever you want might eventually affect MY life, liberty, and/or ability to pursue happiness.
I don't have the right to tell everyone that they have to get vaccinated (even if they don't want to) for my own selfish reasons, but in the same way they don't have the right to tell me that I have to continue to take all these precautions because 30% of the population doesn't want to get a shot or two for their own selfish reasons, and thus they remain highly suceptable to a disease that has been killing Americans about 3 times faster than the Civil War killed Americans. Part of living in a well-functioning society (that's also another discussion for another time...) is recognizing that sometimes we all have to make individual sacrifices for the common good.
Considering the toll this disease has taken (lives, health, economically, educationally, emotionally, etc.), getting a shot or two seems like a small sacrifice for an individual to make in order to greatly reduce this disease's effect. We can disagree on where we as individuals draw that line. But to me it seems like, "if I just do my part and get a shot, this thing that killed 580,000 Americans, made millions sick (some severely), affected the mental health of millions, and the financial well-being of dozens of millions, will be severely weakened/almost destroyed," that sounds like a very worthwhile trade-off that a huge super-majority of the population can make for their country.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Apr 29, 2021 17:02:37 GMT -5
0.017% is the amount of people whose deaths have been linked to or are directly because of Covid. That means less than 2% OF 1% of the whole. (Separate 1% of the US pop. and less than 2% of THAT 1% have passed away) OR... out of the 32.8 million people in the US that have contracted Covid (Roughly 10% of the US population) 586,152 have died. This is an extremely survivable virus so why don't we protect those who are the most susceptible to it? The elderly and babies. From DAY ONE more should have been done to protect those groups (not to mention those who are obese or have pre-existing health concerns). From DAY TWO those in the concern category should have been FIRST in line for vaccination. But that is all could of, should of, would of. Now we're in a situation where two parents can't go and watch their daughter play in a Qualifier together (Denver) out of fear that they might catch a virus that 99.983% of the people have survived. Very few things in life are 100%, but I'm not willing to take a punch in the face for 99.983%. Out of courtesy I might wear a mask (the true effectiveness of that is for an entirely different thread) but I shouldn't have a vaccine forced on me. Canam -- you and I disagree on a number of things, but I respect your points, and I totally appreciate and respect your tone.
I'm guessing ( ) that the govt. in Denver, or Colorado, has reduced the maximum capacity of the building for Crossroads, and without limiting it to 1 spectator per player, they fear they would exceed that limit, and get fined/shut down. No doubt the Crossroads people would rather sell more spectator tickets, and more food, etc. It might not be their fault. But they're still greedy. And the policy where you have to physically come to the C.C. to check in the night before the tournament is ridiculous, and really soured me on the tournament. Along with their steadfast insistence last year that week 2 was going to happen, even after other qualifiers (and the NBA) closed up.
I get that I can wear a mask to the recital and be less concerned about the vaccination status of whoever might sit next to me. Or everyone can get vaccinated, and then maybe none of us need to wear masks. I'd prefer the latter. If my kid is going to school (cuz that's the law), I'd hope the parents of the kid that she's sitting next to are also using readily available methods to reduce the odds that their kid gets mine sick (and maybe thus gets my entire household sick too...).
People can express their right of personal freedom to drive 100 on the freeway, but at some point their personal freedom puts the lives of everyone else at additional risk. That's not the same as not getting vaccinated -- I don't think there should be a law that you could get a multi-hundred-dollar ticket for not being vaccinated. But it's similar in that, at some point, YOUR (not you specifically; the royal "you") choice to do whatever you want might eventually affect MY life, liberty, and/or ability to pursue happiness.
I don't have the right to tell everyone that they have to get vaccinated (even if they don't want to) for my own selfish reasons, but in the same way they don't have the right to tell me that I have to continue to take all these precautions because 30% of the population doesn't want to get a shot or two for their own selfish reasons, and thus they remain highly suceptable to a disease that has been killing Americans about 3 times faster than the Civil War killed Americans. Part of living in a well-functioning society (that's also another discussion for another time...) is recognizing that sometimes we all have to make individual sacrifices for the common good.
Considering the toll this disease has taken (lives, health, economically, educationally, emotionally, etc.), getting a shot or two seems like a small sacrifice for an individual to make in order to greatly reduce this disease's effect. We can disagree on where we as individuals draw that line. But to me it seems like, "if I just do my part and get a shot, this thing that killed 580,000 Americans, made millions sick (some severely), affected the mental health of millions, and the financial well-being of dozens of millions, will be severely weakened/almost destroyed," that sounds like a very worthwhile trade-off that a huge super-majority of the population can make for their country.
A well crafted reply to be sure (RESPECT) and it is true that our POV's are quite different and therein lies the rub. We focus on different numbers and what that impact means. The population circa the civil war was 31,433,321 and the death toll listed as somewhere between 620,000 and 750,000 (Let's average things out and say 690,000) The percentage of people who died was .02% of the entire population. As I said before the percentage of people who have passed away during this ordeal is .017%. For all intents and purposes it's roughly the same number and that number is really, really, small when you look at the WHOLE. Covid is not the source of the woes that we experience now, it's how we've handled Covid. Our Leaders have made decisions that have led to where we are now. What if, stay with me on this, what if had decided to have lived our lives as normal(ish) as possible, keeping in mind the certain part of the population who truly needed to be protected? Maybe we wouldn't have folded businesses, or have a large amount of people unemployed, or kids falling behind in school, or worse than that see the number of teen suicides go up? They told us we needed to stay in our house for two weeks, then it was the necessity of mask use, now it's that the vaccine is the answer. THEN they say that you should probably still wear a mask even if you've HAD the shots. Can you blame some people for being jaded, weary, and wary? Millions upon millions ARE getting the shots and that's awesome. That is their choice. I am hoping that it STAYS a choice and that those who do not are not looked down on. Give it a few years and it will become a normal fabric of our lives just like our other boosters or wearing seatbelts.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Apr 29, 2021 17:05:58 GMT -5
AND YES... Crossroads does have to work within what ever constraints the City of Denver puts on them so maybe it's unfair to lay ALL the blame at their feet.
I blame them for not MOVING the Qualifier to a State with less restrictions.
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Post by n00b on Apr 29, 2021 17:10:46 GMT -5
AND YES... Crossroads does have to work within what ever constraints the City of Denver puts on them so maybe it's unfair to lay ALL the blame at their feet. I blame them for not MOVING the Qualifier to a State with less restrictions. That is much easier said than done. Basically every event that moved, moved to another location they already had a relationship with. (MEQ to Louisville might be the exception, but it was only 2 hours away and not COVID related) Do the people who run Crossroads run events in other states?
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Apr 29, 2021 17:15:32 GMT -5
AND YES... Crossroads does have to work within what ever constraints the City of Denver puts on them so maybe it's unfair to lay ALL the blame at their feet. I blame them for not MOVING the Qualifier to a State with less restrictions. That is much easier said than done. Basically every event that moved, moved to another location they already had a relationship with. (MEQ to Louisville might be the exception, but it was only 2 hours away and not COVID related) Do the people who run Crossroads run events in other states? I think so but I think it's Minnesota. Which this year has moved everything to where? You guessed it...OMAHA! Never thought I'd have this much appreciation for NEBRASKA.
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Post by dexter on Apr 29, 2021 18:11:34 GMT -5
Fortunately Denver is only allowing one parent in the Convention Center to watch the games so I'm not even going. They should allow unlimited parents/spectators, *if* they all have vaccine passports. No one, without a vaccine passport, should be allowed to attend. This is borderline political is it not? Keep your anti-"anti-vax" comments to yourself or bring it up with Xroads. the OP was sharing how, in their opinion, Xroads is taking advantage of people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2021 7:39:45 GMT -5
My post wasn't anti anything. It was pro.
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Post by mervinswerved on Apr 30, 2021 7:58:10 GMT -5
It would be hard for crossroads to find anything close to the sweetheart deal they get from the Colorado convention center.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Apr 30, 2021 8:08:15 GMT -5
It would be hard for crossroads to find anything close to the sweetheart deal they get from the Colorado convention center. Good point... financials play a HUGE role in venue decisions. Like when GJNC's were in Detroit. I think they got use of the Convention Center for like next to nothing.. or for nothing.
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moody
Banned
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Post by moody on Apr 30, 2021 8:46:17 GMT -5
I understand and respect 99% of your post. But when you throw out the statistic of .017%, that means nothing to me. What percent is that? What does that number mean in real life? You hit the nail on the head, knowing someone who has died to Covid magnifies the feelings you have about it. I don’t know anyone that has died to it either, but I know plenty of people who do. That’s more than enough for me to justify losing some freedoms. If a doctor told me that they had to punch me in the face in order to save 5 strangers that 5 of my friends know, I’d curse and agree to it. 0.017% is the amount of people whose deaths have been linked to or are directly because of Covid. That means less than 2% OF 1% of the whole. (Separate 1% of the US pop. and less than 2% of THAT 1% have passed away) OR... out of the 32.8 million people in the US that have contracted Covid (Roughly 10% of the US population) 586,152 have died. This is an extremely survivable virus so why don't we protect those who are the most susceptible to it? The elderly and babies. From DAY ONE more should have been done to protect those groups (not to mention those who are obese or have pre-existing health concerns). From DAY TWO those in the concern category should have been FIRST in line for vaccination. But that is all could of, should of, would of. Now we're in a situation where two parents can't go and watch their daughter play in a Qualifier together (Denver) out of fear that they might catch a virus that 99.983% of the people have survived. Very few things in life are 100%, but I'm not willing to take a punch in the face for 99.983%. Out of courtesy I might wear a mask (the true effectiveness of that is for an entirely different thread) but I shouldn't have a vaccine forced on me. You may want to double check your math. Your numbers are nonsense. I know percentages can be hard.
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Post by sevb on Apr 30, 2021 8:56:59 GMT -5
It would be hard for crossroads to find anything close to the sweetheart deal they get from the Colorado convention center. Good point... financials play a HUGE role in venue decisions. Like when GJNC's were in Detroit. I think they got use of the Convention Center for like next to nothing.. or for nothing. To be fair... they got what they paid for...
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Apr 30, 2021 9:21:32 GMT -5
0.017% is the amount of people whose deaths have been linked to or are directly because of Covid. That means less than 2% OF 1% of the whole. (Separate 1% of the US pop. and less than 2% of THAT 1% have passed away) OR... out of the 32.8 million people in the US that have contracted Covid (Roughly 10% of the US population) 586,152 have died. This is an extremely survivable virus so why don't we protect those who are the most susceptible to it? The elderly and babies. From DAY ONE more should have been done to protect those groups (not to mention those who are obese or have pre-existing health concerns). From DAY TWO those in the concern category should have been FIRST in line for vaccination. But that is all could of, should of, would of. Now we're in a situation where two parents can't go and watch their daughter play in a Qualifier together (Denver) out of fear that they might catch a virus that 99.983% of the people have survived. Very few things in life are 100%, but I'm not willing to take a punch in the face for 99.983%. Out of courtesy I might wear a mask (the true effectiveness of that is for an entirely different thread) but I shouldn't have a vaccine forced on me. You may want to double check your math. Your numbers are nonsense. I know percentages can be hard. Which part did I get wrong?
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Apr 30, 2021 9:22:28 GMT -5
Good point... financials play a HUGE role in venue decisions. Like when GJNC's were in Detroit. I think they got use of the Convention Center for like next to nothing.. or for nothing. To be fair... they got what they paid for... Yes, yes they did.
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