NCAA Softball Selection -- Does the committee love the B1G?

[n00b]

Apparently coaches whining is the cool thing to do now.

[mikegarrison]

May 20, 2021 12:41:10 GMT -5 n00b said:

Apparently coaches whining is the cool thing to do now.

If the coach of the team with the #1 seed complains about how the seeding was done, that's whining in your book?

[n00b]

May 20, 2021 12:55:46 GMT -5 mikegarrison said:

May 20, 2021 12:41:10 GMT -5 n00b said:

Apparently coaches whining is the cool thing to do now.

If the coach of the team with the #1 seed complains about how the seeding was done, that's whining in your book?

Yes

[mikegarrison]

So how would you suggest that a coach can offer constructive feedback to the seeding process?

[trojansc]

May 20, 2021 13:34:41 GMT -5 mikegarrison said:

So how would you suggest that a coach can offer constructive feedback to the seeding process?

I am with Gasso on a few points, not on others.

-There is zero reason for Kentucky to be ahead of Washington. Period. All of the other resume's you can make arguments for, even though I believe Washington should have been at least a few spots higher, I still don't think Top 8, but definitely better than 16. This is the most inexplicable seeding discrepancy.

-I strongly disagree with Oregon being sent to Texas, I thought Oregon should have been seeded and TEXAS should have been going to them instead! But, as far as the matchup goes, if anyone is familiar with how we put together brackets in volleyball too, this was pretty much guaranteed. Both teams were going to travel no matter what if they weren't seeded, and they were going to be one of the best non-seeded teams. Yes, the story is certainly interesting, but it was extremely predictable re: regionalization and bracketing principles.

-She talks about 'strength of schedule here, but not there' referring to her own team, this has been discussed with how did Oklahoma get a #1 overall seed with a bad OOC SOS, which seemed to hurt Washington? There were two huge differences. Washington beat 0 top 50 teams in the non-conference and lost to one two sub-50 teams, one sub-100 (this was their negative criteria, but I disagree this ALONE should force them to be #16). Oklahoma beat SEVEN top 25 teams in the non-conference. That's a TON! A poor S.O.S in RPI OOC terms is easily outweighed when you beat 7 freaking T25 teams OOC alone.

-Michigan played in the Big Ten, THE only conference that did not have any out of conference play. Were they supposed to be rewarded with a Top 16 seed for that? It's unfortunate for them. They shouldn't get an exception. I'm curious to see if anyone feels different. I know it's harsh, but they probably would have had to only lose to Northwestern and Minnesota for me to give them good consideration.

-The SEC nitty gritties/team sheets mostly justified their seeds EXCEPT Kentucky. I disagree wholeheartedly with that one. I still wouldn't have put the SEC at #6-9, I would have knocked a couple down lower, but it was tough looking at those resumes who goes where. The RPI really did work out and their wins were just too good on paper.

-She needs to discuss regionalization and point it out re: Clemson and Wichita State, get people MAD about it, and push for a change (but in volleyball, we know this every year re: Penn State and too-difficult two seeds in subregionals). I knew Clemson was going to end up at Alabama because of regionalization. Clemson is #20 in RPI while Alabama would ideally face #30 ranked team, while Wichita State is #24 and Oklahoma would ideally face #32 team. (The GOOD part is, though it's not a ton of justification, is that their 3-seeds were slightly worse, Oklahoma got the 40 RPI team (#33 would be ideal) and Alabama got the #49 RPI team for #3-seed, (#35 would be ideal).

[n00b]

May 20, 2021 13:34:41 GMT -5 mikegarrison said:

So how would you suggest that a coach can offer constructive feedback to the seeding process?

This is almost exactly what coaches' associations are for. Head coaches meet, then present items to the NCAA (or whoever) about changes that need to be made.

And what is the constructive feedback in these quotes? It isn't that the criteria needs to change. It's that it's unfair that the committee seems to prop up the SEC and put down the Pac-12. Maybe that Oklahoma coach's insinuation was that the coaches poll should seed the tournament?

[n00b]

To be clear, I'm not saying the committee seeded everybody correctly. But none of the publicly-aired grievances even have anything to do with the system. They didn't say they want to fight to get rid of regionalization. They just complained about the end product when it didn't work out well for them.

[trojansc]

May 20, 2021 14:04:00 GMT -5 n00b said:

May 20, 2021 13:34:41 GMT -5 mikegarrison said:

So how would you suggest that a coach can offer constructive feedback to the seeding process?

This is almost exactly what coaches' associations are for. Head coaches meet, then present items to the NCAA (or whoever) about changes that need to be made.

And what is the constructive feedback in these quotes? It isn't that the criteria needs to change. It's that it's unfair that the committee seems to prop up the SEC and put down the Pac-12. Maybe that Oklahoma coach's insinuation was that the coaches poll should seed the tournament?

Well she does feel the criteria was not fairly applied, which I think is correct in some instances and not completely accurate in others. Many softball fans, including most SEC fans I know or interacted with were disgusted with LSU at 7 and Kentucky above Washington.

I don’t mind her calling out the matchups, but I would prefer to discuss it in more depth, and as we both mention push for change re: regionalization.

I also forgot to mention, I dislike the simple argument of “X team finished above Y team in conference standings. I hate that in volleyball. X may be the better team, even in seeding terms, but argue that in terms of multiple criteria, NOT just conference finish(not a criteria) and potentially H2H (this is one, not all).

The SEC got the worst shaft of all in the at large department. South Carolina had a better resume than all of the Last 4 in, IMO.

[n00b]

May 20, 2021 14:23:46 GMT -5 trojansc said:

May 20, 2021 14:04:00 GMT -5 n00b said:

This is almost exactly what coaches' associations are for. Head coaches meet, then present items to the NCAA (or whoever) about changes that need to be made.

And what is the constructive feedback in these quotes? It isn't that the criteria needs to change. It's that it's unfair that the committee seems to prop up the SEC and put down the Pac-12. Maybe that Oklahoma coach's insinuation was that the coaches poll should seed the tournament?

Well she does feel the criteria was not fairly applied, which I think is correct in some instances and not completely accurate in others. Many softball fans, including most SEC fans I know or interacted with were disgusted with LSU at 7 and Kentucky above Washington.

I don’t mind her calling out the matchups, but I would prefer to discuss it in more depth, and as we both mention push for change re: regionalization.

I also forgot to mention, I dislike the simple argument of “X team finished above Y team in conference standings. I hate that in volleyball. X may be the better team, even in seeding terms, but argue that in terms of multiple criteria, NOT just conference finish(not a criteria) and potentially H2H (this is one, not all).

The SEC got the worst shaft of all in the at large department. South Carolina had a better resume than all of the Last 4 in, IMO.

Right. I just see that 6-paragraph long quote by the Oklahoma coach the same way I'd see six paragraphs of complaining about an umpire after a game. Useless and a bad look.

[trojansc]

There’s another important discussion part here: the West Coast WAS shafted in having its major tournaments cancelled and thus, absolutely throttling Washington’s OOC chance to get significant wins. There are softball fans (and it sounds like Gasso included) who believed this should have taken a part of the selection process and teams given leniency regarding this. Some argue about travel restrictions, but I’m not sure how accurate those reports are. Teams still traveled out of state. But I DO think their opportunities to get OOC wins were really damaged. How possible was it ( logistically) to get better chances? That information I do not know.

That includes Michigan re: COVID and Big Ten playing conference only.

I unfortunately don’t agree with that necessarily. I do know Washington schedules tough year in and year out, so I know this was an anomaly. But, with enough non conference made the RPI be relatively reliable (as far as RPI standards go). So it’s tough to use that the RPI didn’t work this year.

[n00b]

Lol

Southern Illinois's coach got tossed in the first inning of their first game of the tournament.

[n00b]

And now the associate head coach (and acting head coach) got an official warning. I'm hoping the student assistant is the head coach by the end of the game.

[trojansc]

May 20, 2021 22:06:55 GMT -5 n00b said:

Lol

Southern Illinois's coach got tossed in the first inning of their first game of the tournament.

I mean, this has been absolutely horrible. The BYU-Virginia Tech home plate ump blew a run-scoring play at home plate, that would have easily been overturned by replay. It wasn't a bang-bang play, he ruled she missed the tag when she clearly made it. There was also a staredown after an awful third-strike call where I thought BYU's player might get ejected. Even the NC pitcher announcer who admittedly likes expanded strikezones thought the pitch was both outside and too high.


Also, One of the best USA pitchers on the SIU Head Coach ejection:

[n00b]

And now it's raining in the desert? What's going on???

[bbg95]

May 20, 2021 22:14:54 GMT -5 trojansc said:

May 20, 2021 22:06:55 GMT -5 n00b said:

Lol

Southern Illinois's coach got tossed in the first inning of their first game of the tournament.

I mean, this has been absolutely horrible. The BYU-Virginia Tech home plate ump blew a run-scoring play at home plate, that would have easily been overturned by replay. It wasn't a bang-bang play, he ruled she missed the tag when she clearly made it. There was also a staredown after an awful third-strike call where I thought BYU's player might get ejected. Even the NC pitcher announcer who admittedly likes expanded strikezones thought the pitch was both outside and too high.


Also, One of the best USA pitchers on the SIU Head Coach ejection:

So the "ump show" extends to softball also. I wish I was surprised. Of course, the worst-ever example of this in my opinion comes from the NBA when Joey Crawford infamously ejected Tim Duncan for laughing on the bench. Crawford got himself suspended indefinitely in the fallout, which was just.