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Post by WahineFan44 on Jun 13, 2021 17:58:48 GMT -5
Was MBH as good as she was now in 2016? In 2016, correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember her being on the radar all that much when it came to the national team etc
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jun 13, 2021 17:59:21 GMT -5
Watching this match the question that comes to mind is, how can Karch keep MBH off the floor and what does that mean regarding Larson or k Rob in the other slot. Hill seems relegated to the serving sub role with either Hancock or Poulter in the double sub. Can JT break out and replace Drew's as the starter? And do they give Hill a chance to replace MBH if she struggles? he will try usa-fast until it doesn't work, then sub in MBH/Plummer (if she was here) for KRob. Opposites can't get subbed off because it'd break the double-sub. Hill is definitely stuck as a serving sub now. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 18:15:14 GMT -5
Hancock-Washington is hurting Japan right now. That's why Hancock is on the team. Like it or not (saying while the carlini crazies are asleep), Carlini can't set the middles like the other two setters can we are awake She CAN. Each of her middles at UW became All-Americans or HM AAs. Her ability to make insane sets to her middles has been a big part of her repertoire since she was 15. I don’t know how this criticism has stuck so much for her as a pro. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 18:35:42 GMT -5
That's why Hancock is on the team. Like it or not (saying while the carlini crazies are asleep), Carlini can't set the middles like the other two setters can we are awake She CAN. Each of her middles at UW became All-Americans or HM AAs. Her ability to make insane sets to her middles has been a big part of her repertoire since she was 15. I don’t know how this criticism has stuck so much for her as a pro. She does tend to set the middles too low in transition and especially when in front of her. That is the one area I always saw when watching her set that was a clear area of opportunity for her. Her sets to the pins, especially behind her and on the pipe were always money. That is why I thought she was a near lock for the Tokyo roster, especially given her blocking and defense in zone 1. That's what's got me scratching my head. I guess that one area of opportunity was what cost her that spot? I'm still baffled. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 18:42:43 GMT -5
That's why Hancock is on the team. Like it or not (saying while the carlini crazies are asleep), Carlini can't set the middles like the other two setters can we are awake She CAN. Each of her middles at UW became All-Americans or HM AAs. Her ability to make insane sets to her middles has been a big part of her repertoire since she was 15. I don’t know how this criticism has stuck so much for her as a pro. What she did at UW isn't relevant. It's not like its some "we hate Carlini" agenda. It's been said by fans that aren't even American. And it's pretty clear that Karch put a lot of emphasis on the past pro season. Carlini @ THY: Kalac 1.4 kps, .310 | Sahin .63 kps, .340 | 4.3 attempts/set | THY passed 34% perfect, 27% efficiency Poulter @ Busto: Stevanovic 1.66 kps .420 | Olivotto 1.1 kps .390 | 5.65 attempts/set | Busto passed 33% perfect, 25% efficiency Hancock @ Novara: Washington 1.93 kps, .510 | Chirichella 1.40 kps .430 | 6.20 attempts/set | Novara passed 37% perfect, 29% efficiency |
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Post by Pipe Attack on Jun 13, 2021 18:52:29 GMT -5
Watching this match the question that comes to mind is, how can Karch keep MBH off the floor and what does that mean regarding Larson or k Rob in the other slot. Hill seems relegated to the serving sub role with either Hancock or Poulter in the double sub. Can JT break out and replace Drew's as the starter? And do they give Hill a chance to replace MBH if she struggles? Even this year Hill had some some high scoring matches for Imoco but she certainly would no longer be seen as an offensive OH. With the outsides, it probably will be about shared duties and who gives the best look (or matches up better) against certain opponents. Olympics is a grueling 2 week tournament - so actually, if the other teams overly rely on their big guns, it could work for the US. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jun 13, 2021 18:53:17 GMT -5
we are awake She CAN. Each of her middles at UW became All-Americans or HM AAs. Her ability to make insane sets to her middles has been a big part of her repertoire since she was 15. I don’t know how this criticism has stuck so much for her as a pro. What she did at UW isn't relevant. It's not like its some "we hate Carlini" agenda. It's been said by fans that aren't even American. And it's pretty clear that Karch put a lot of emphasis on the past pro season. Carlini @ THY: Kalac 1.4 kps, .310 | Sahin .63 kps, .340 | 4.3 attempts/set | THY passed 34% perfect, 27% efficiency Poulter @ Busto: Stevanovic 1.66 kps .420 | Olivotto 1.1 kps .390 | 5.65 attempts/set | Busto passed 33% perfect, 25% efficiency Hancock @ Novara: Washington 1.93 kps, .510 | Chirichella 1.40 kps .430 | 6.20 attempts/set | Novara passed 37% perfect, 29% efficiency Seriously, why cites ncaa stats for arguments in the international game?? I don't agree with either the coaching staff's decision nor their process but this is just ...
also I personally feel this is the least consequential of the decisions. there are others like - which lib to bring (this is honestly a gimmie and if the coaches get it wrong they have zero sympathy for any results)
- which middles to bring - which pins to bring - which serving subs to bring.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jun 13, 2021 18:54:28 GMT -5
Watching this match the question that comes to mind is, how can Karch keep MBH off the floor and what does that mean regarding Larson or k Rob in the other slot. Hill seems relegated to the serving sub role with either Hancock or Poulter in the double sub. Can JT break out and replace Drew's as the starter? And do they give Hill a chance to replace MBH if she struggles? Even this year Hill had some some high scoring matches for Imoco but she certainly would no longer be seen as an offensive OH. With the outsides, it probably will be about shared duties and who gives the best look (or matches up better) against certain opponents. Olympics is a grueling 2 week tournament - so actually, if the other teams overly rely on their big guns, it could work for the US. gruelling? they play 8 matches at most, and alternate every day off. A lot less intense than world cup and world championships
The only thing difficult about the olympics, is that it is called the olympics and the psychological impact that comes with.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 18:58:41 GMT -5
With the outsides, it probably will be about shared duties and who gives the best look (or matches up better) against certain opponents. Olympics is a grueling 2 week tournament - so actually, if the other teams overly rely on their big guns, it could work for the US. gruelling? they play 8 matches at most, and alternate every day off. A lot less intense than world cup and world championships
The only thing difficult about the olympics, is that it is called the olympics and the psychological impact that comes with.
Yep. Basically. |
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Post by Pipe Attack on Jun 13, 2021 18:59:05 GMT -5
With the outsides, it probably will be about shared duties and who gives the best look (or matches up better) against certain opponents. Olympics is a grueling 2 week tournament - so actually, if the other teams overly rely on their big guns, it could work for the US. gruelling? they play 8 matches at most, and alternate every day off. A lot less intense than world cup and world championships The only thing difficult about the olympics, is that it is called the olympics and the psychological impact that comes with.
Yes, grueling (even if mental)! Especially if you're in the pool of death. Why do you think JLP managed Ting so well. She was meh in pool play. And then started to light it up after. How JLP handled the USA team while she was head coach was also very interesting. The starting line up to start the Olympics wasn't the same one that ended it. With the said, I do think it's possible for teams like Serbia and Italy to wear down - especially if they have to constantly rely on Egonu and Boskovic. It might also be in a team's best interest to sort of dictate the crossover if they're gutsy enough. Lol! Like how Cuba did that one Olympics ... and just hope it works in your favor. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jun 13, 2021 19:13:49 GMT -5
gruelling? they play 8 matches at most, and alternate every day off. A lot less intense than world cup and world championships The only thing difficult about the olympics, is that it is called the olympics and the psychological impact that comes with.
Yes, grueling (even if mental)! Especially if you're in the pool of death. Why do you think JLP managed Ting so well. She was meh in pool play. And then started to light it up after. How JLP handled the USA team while she was head coach was also very interesting. The starting line up to start the Olympics wasn't the same one that ended it. With the said, I do think it's possible for teams like Serbia and Italy to wear down - especially if they have to constantly rely on Egonu and Boskovic. It might also be in a team's best interest to sort of dictate the crossover if they're gutsy enough. Lol! Like how Cuba did that one Olympics ... and just hope it works in your favor. I don't agree that JLP managed ZT very well. For example in the subsequent world championships (2018) despite learning a lesson in 2014. And they really wanted to win it.
Also she (ZT) was excellent in pool play -- in the five matches she hit .425, .500, .375, .682, .321. (efficiency, not kill percentage)
They (i.e. Chinese setters) tried to distribute the attack around, found out it wasn't working, and then set ZT more in the KO stages because the alternative was losing.
I don't know much about the 2008 US team other than they exceeded expectations. That I do give credit for.
The starting lineup wasn't the same one that ended it because the team was still "gelling" -- 2016 was supposed to get this team experience for 2020, turns out they exceeded expectations in their first go. who knew Yang Fangxu would get injured, or others would choke? The 2nd highest scorer on China was a middle got only 55 points from the entire tournament compared to Zhu's 179.
Nobody in their right mind would risk meeting Brazil in the QFs in 2016. Just like nobody is gonna risk meeting Serbia early in the KOs this year.
That being said, yes, it's psychologically gruelling and I won't deny that. Especially with others on your NOC getting medals and volleyball ending the latest.
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Post by cardinalvolleyball on Jun 13, 2021 19:30:38 GMT -5
9 attempts for Ogbogu. For all this good passing, it would be nice if we used her more offensively. I thought we left Carlini home so we can set the middles more..hmmm |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 19:47:28 GMT -5
we are awake She CAN. Each of her middles at UW became All-Americans or HM AAs. Her ability to make insane sets to her middles has been a big part of her repertoire since she was 15. I don’t know how this criticism has stuck so much for her as a pro. What she did at UW isn't relevant. It is, because the line is “she can’t set the middles.” And she’s been doing it at a high level for the vast majority of her career. And it’s disingenuous to share the stats you did without context, as if they actually explain anything. All THY had was Carlini and Karakurt. Washington and Chirichella are two of the best middles in the world. Of course Hancock should be setting the two of them more and of course they should be efficient. Even if we accept the notion that Carlini struggles connecting with her middle attackers, the results of her teams speak for themselves and are, in some ways, more impressive if this is actually a weakness in her game. She’s led two different teams in the top two pro leagues in the world to Champions League berths, overachieving significantly with each. She won CL in her second season as a pro, only the second American setter to do so. She truly can’t be as lucky as you want us all to believe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 19:56:43 GMT -5
What she did at UW isn't relevant. It is, because the line is “she can’t set the middles.” And she’s been doing it at a high level for the vast majority of her career. And it’s disingenuous to share the stats you did without context, as if they actually explain anything. All THY had was Carlini and Karakurt. Washington and Chirichella are two of the best middles in the world. Of course Hancock should be setting the two of them more and of course they should be efficient. Even if we accept the notion that Carlini struggles connecting with her middle attackers, the results of her teams speak for themselves and are, in some ways, more impressive if this is actually a weakness in her game. She’s led two different teams in the top two pro leagues in the world to Champions League berths, overachieving significantly with each. She won CL in her second season as a pro, only the second American setter to do so. She truly can’t be as lucky as you want us all to believe. If you go back and read, I didn't say Carlini can't set the middles. I said Carlini can't set them as well as the other two can. Carlini had both Chirichella + Veljkovic in her year with Novara. Neither were as successful as Washington and Chirichella were with Hancock. (1.36 kps, .370 and 1.5 kps, .490) with a team that included MBH and Egonu. (passing 40% and 31% efficiency) That's the exact point. Carlini rides the success of her pins (Ebrar, Egonu, Haak). Team USA doesn't have that option. That's why Poulter and Hancock were selected. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 20:05:58 GMT -5
It is, because the line is “she can’t set the middles.” And she’s been doing it at a high level for the vast majority of her career. And it’s disingenuous to share the stats you did without context, as if they actually explain anything. All THY had was Carlini and Karakurt. Washington and Chirichella are two of the best middles in the world. Of course Hancock should be setting the two of them more and of course they should be efficient. Even if we accept the notion that Carlini struggles connecting with her middle attackers, the results of her teams speak for themselves and are, in some ways, more impressive if this is actually a weakness in her game. She’s led two different teams in the top two pro leagues in the world to Champions League berths, overachieving significantly with each. She won CL in her second season as a pro, only the second American setter to do so. She truly can’t be as lucky as you want us all to believe. If you go back and read, I didn't say Carlini can't set the middles. I said Carlini can't set them as well as the other two can. Carlini had both Chirichella + Veljkovic in her year with Novara. Neither were as successful as Washington and Chirichella were with Hancock. (1.36 kps, .370 and 1.5 kps, .490) with a team that included MBH and Egonu. (passing 40% and 31% efficiency) That's the exact point. Carlini rides the success of her pins (Ebrar, Egonu, Haak). Team USA doesn't have that option. That's why Poulter and Hancock were selected. She doesn’t ride their success — she wins. She’s the only active setter to have set Team USA in a final and to a gold. That is what you give up for… 1-2 more attempts to the middle per set? Good luck. |
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