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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 17, 2021 14:02:23 GMT -5
I try not to tell other people to not post. But I really don't understand why you persist in this.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 17, 2021 14:05:32 GMT -5
Sounds like some have defined that all white people are privileged because they didn't face the same discrimination as other races. a) all people face discrimination of one form or another, so this becomes a gross generalization that probably doesn't apply to most white people. Do "whites" *as a group* face discrimination? News to me if we do. Sure they do - I have applied for many jobs and the great majority of them I was not offered the job. I doubt that any of them was because I was white. My appearance could have easily been a factor - it is usually pretty important in the hiring process. My qualifications - I also doubt it. The employer had to make a decision and 'discriminate' in their selection. This is rather normal. Of course an easy place (and not a big deal) - was being an 18 year old kid at the park playing basketball where I was the only white person around. My race didn't give me much advantage in getting picked to play - pretty much relegated to playing when my turn in calling game came up.
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Post by donut on Jun 17, 2021 14:09:03 GMT -5
Wow. I'm done engaging with you.
Call your pastor and let him know the Church needs a sermon on empathy and humility, how to put aside delicate egos, and how to listen and learn. You clearly are never going to grow in any of those ways here.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 14:09:29 GMT -5
That is YOU. That has nothing to do with you being white.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 17, 2021 14:13:48 GMT -5
I try not to tell other people to not post. But I really don't understand why you persist in this. If you continually talk about the issue and press hard enough, you eventually will get people to go deeper and deeper into their line of 'thinking'. Finally, they will 'tell on themselves'. I'm sensing a lot of daryl energy here. We finally got him to admit that he was jumped in the Pomona area by a group of Black kids when he was younger in a 'racially-motivated' crime as he called it. I think that is no surprise or coincidence as to part of his attitudes towards Black people in general.
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Post by donut on Jun 17, 2021 14:15:07 GMT -5
I try not to tell other people to not post. But I really don't understand why you persist in this. If you continually talk about the issue and press hard enough, you eventually will get people to go deeper and deeper into their line of 'thinking'. Finally, they will 'tell on themselves'. We've seen a lot of that from blue the past few days. Sad stuff, really.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 14:57:15 GMT -5
Yeah there definitely weren't any racist business owners during Jim Crow or segregation no sir! Every swimming pool and lunch counter in Alabama was secretly run by government plants. 1) Does this go on today? This hasn't happened for decades - 40-50+ years ago. 2) This has little/nothing to do with the generational wealth gap like the Federal housing discrimination that took place in the 30's to the 60's. A brief history of swimming. Swimming booms in the early 20th century. Amazing state-of-the-art public pools are built throughout the country. Minorities are excluded. Desegregation. Whites still fight tooth and nail to keep minorities out. Law and order ultimately prevails. Not coincidentally there is a subsequent boom in backyard swimming pools and private swim clubs. Over a few decades public swimming pools languish and fall into disrepair, and some truly remarkable and beautiful facilities shut down.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 17, 2021 15:07:10 GMT -5
1) Does this go on today? This hasn't happened for decades - 40-50+ years ago. 2) This has little/nothing to do with the generational wealth gap like the Federal housing discrimination that took place in the 30's to the 60's. A brief history of swimming. Swimming booms in the early 20th century. Amazing state-of-the-art public pools are built throughout the country. Minorities are excluded. Desegregation. Whites still fight tooth and nail to keep minorities out. Law and order ultimately prevails. Not coincidentally there is a subsequent boom in backyard swimming pools and private swim clubs. Over a few decades public swimming pools languish and fall into disrepair, and some truly remarkable and beautiful facilities shut down. I am pretty much only familiar with city public pools (other than ones in the backyard). Again - this sounds like the Government using public money to discriminate? That is a problem. I know of people that have pools in their backyard - I have an above ground one in my backyard that got in early during COVID. Is this a problem. Not familiar with 'swim clubs' - is this for Olympic type swimmers?
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 17, 2021 15:28:06 GMT -5
That is YOU. That has nothing to do with you being white. #NoResponse is a Response.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2021 15:28:42 GMT -5
A brief history of swimming. Swimming booms in the early 20th century. Amazing state-of-the-art public pools are built throughout the country. Minorities are excluded. Desegregation. Whites still fight tooth and nail to keep minorities out. Law and order ultimately prevails. Not coincidentally there is a subsequent boom in backyard swimming pools and private swim clubs. Over a few decades public swimming pools languish and fall into disrepair, and some truly remarkable and beautiful facilities shut down. I am pretty much only familiar with city public pools (other than ones in the backyard). Again - this sounds like the Government using public money to discriminate? That is a problem. I know of people that have pools in their backyard - I have an above ground one in my backyard that got in early during COVID. Is this a problem. Not familiar with 'swim clubs' - is this for Olympic type swimmers? No, the swim clubs I’m referring were not for Olympic swimmers. Think more along the lines of Segregation Academies.
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 17, 2021 16:02:02 GMT -5
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 23, 2021 12:34:12 GMT -5
We literally had this discussion very recently (see: redlining). You refuse to engage with this in an honest manner. I must have missed 'redlining' mentioned earlier? But really (?) - redlining was the result of the racist New Deal from FDR that was later reinforced in a housing act in 1948 (or 49). It was the Federal Government that was the primary culprit in housing segregation, approval of insurance, etc... It was the Feds that caused the housing wealth race gap in the US. It was white northern liberals like Hubert Humphrey that perpetuated this housing racism into the 60's and 70's. I am not denying the horrible racist stuff that has gone in this country. We have made progress - but most of the problems lie with the Government instituting racist laws. I am not going to claim the free market (in so much as we have had one) is perfect, but it is very clear that Government action has been horrible and the major problem. The #1 one thing is equal protection under the law. The law and and application of the law cannot be racist. And where the law and application of the law is racist, I am 100% for fixing. I find it hilarious you're calling the new deal "racist" because you don't like it, even though that assumes a definition of racism (based on the disparate outcomes) that you would NEVER accept otherwise. The law doesn't mention race at all, and if it were passed by Republicans today, you'd call it race-neutral, guaranteeing equal protection under the law. And your point ignores that discrimination existed completely outside of federal administration of funds - there's a reason they had to pass SEPARATE non-discrimination legislation governing private entities in addition to changing whatever guidance. You don't seem to be able to recognize that we admit that past government action had racist outcomes. You seem to want to point at that, say CASE CLOSED, and ignore everything else. Past private market actions did too. That's why we need to be mindful of eliminating them, and we can only do that if we disabuse ourselves of the notion that laissez-faire is fair.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 23, 2021 12:43:24 GMT -5
Yet we appreciate your recognition that things can be called racist if they have racially disparate negative outcomes, even if they are structured or written in ways that don't actually address race.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jun 23, 2021 15:55:32 GMT -5
Yet we appreciate your recognition that things can be called racist if they have racially disparate negative outcomes, even if they are structured or written in ways that don't actually address race. #Checkmate
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 27, 2021 6:45:35 GMT -5
I must have missed 'redlining' mentioned earlier? But really (?) - redlining was the result of the racist New Deal from FDR that was later reinforced in a housing act in 1948 (or 49). It was the Federal Government that was the primary culprit in housing segregation, approval of insurance, etc... It was the Feds that caused the housing wealth race gap in the US. It was white northern liberals like Hubert Humphrey that perpetuated this housing racism into the 60's and 70's. I am not denying the horrible racist stuff that has gone in this country. We have made progress - but most of the problems lie with the Government instituting racist laws. I am not going to claim the free market (in so much as we have had one) is perfect, but it is very clear that Government action has been horrible and the major problem. The #1 one thing is equal protection under the law. The law and and application of the law cannot be racist. And where the law and application of the law is racist, I am 100% for fixing. I find it hilarious you're calling the new deal "racist" because you don't like it, even though that assumes a definition of racism (based on the disparate outcomes) that you would NEVER accept otherwise. The law doesn't mention race at all, and if it were passed by Republicans today, you'd call it race-neutral, guaranteeing equal protection under the law. And your point ignores that discrimination existed completely outside of federal administration of funds - there's a reason they had to pass SEPARATE non-discrimination legislation governing private entities in addition to changing whatever guidance. You don't seem to be able to recognize that we admit that past government action had racist outcomes. You seem to want to point at that, say CASE CLOSED, and ignore everything else. Past private market actions did too. That's why we need to be mindful of eliminating them, and we can only do that if we disabuse ourselves of the notion that laissez-faire is fair. I was responding to your assertion that private markets were the source of most racism in this country and as it relates to racial wealth differences. Specifically you mentioned redlining. 1) most racism occurs with the Government and not private markets. Including redlining. 2) Discriminations by the Government is far worse than private market discriminations. There is no recourse for Government discrimination. 3) Racial discrimination that occurred 50, 100, and 150 years ago has very little to do with today. I will agree that *some* racial wealth inequality may have relevance today as it relates to housing discriminations that occurred in the 30's through the 60's - which all came from the Government.
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