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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 16, 2021 8:37:54 GMT -5
Sure, by dismantling existing law enforcement and penal systems and starting over from scratch. Hmm... start from scratch with a new kind of system? Do you have an idea what that new system might look like?
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Jun 16, 2021 8:40:10 GMT -5
Hmm... start from scratch with a new kind of system? Do you have an idea what that new system might look like? I apologize... I do not know for sure who that is. If I guessed Marx would I be right?
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 16, 2021 8:48:46 GMT -5
I apologize... I do not know for sure who that is. If I guessed Marx would I be right? Yes, which is a little ironic because Karl wasn't immune to some racist views himself. Look, policing and prisons in this country are heinous. Unfortunately, the police these days mostly exist to enforce the existing social order. We need to change that social order if we want to create a more just society. I was mostly pointing out blue's hilariously absurd idea racism is receding in America while conceding it's a key feature of the state. A real, "other than that, Mrs. Lincoln how was the play?"
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 16, 2021 9:08:23 GMT -5
We'd probably also need to end capitalism, too, but one thing at a time. And this is the crux of the movement... I hate Capitalism. Capitalism in the US led to racism. People who believe in Capitalism are racist. Get rid of Capitalism in order to end racism.
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 16, 2021 9:17:48 GMT -5
We'd probably also need to end capitalism, too, but one thing at a time. And this is the crux of the movement... What movement are you talking about? Left wingers like Bill Maher? Sure, but that's kind of like hating air. It's the system within which everything operates and there's nothing I can personally do to change it, so one must soldier on. Who is saying this? Both good ideas, not sure if they have anything to do with each other, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 16, 2021 9:31:17 GMT -5
That's one take. Not a good one, however, imo. Yes yes, it was solely racism. Nothing to do with Obama selling out his movement for a bunch of neoliberal policies that screwed the working class people who voted him into office twice. Always fun to engage in a dishonest debate. How about you let me argue my point and you argue yours?
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 16, 2021 10:28:18 GMT -5
Yes yes, it was solely racism. Nothing to do with Obama selling out his movement for a bunch of neoliberal policies that screwed the working class people who voted him into office twice. Always fun to engage in a dishonest debate. How about you let me argue my point and you argue yours? What was your point?
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Post by donut on Jun 16, 2021 13:01:54 GMT -5
Even if, that’s what I don’t understand. Blue hasn’t talked about this issue in that manner. He’s explicitly said that white privilege should NOT be acknowledged. Maher isn’t saying that at all. So, I’m not sure what the point of this is. I haven’t even seen the attitudes that Maher expressed on this board, but let alone in my life. They’re soooo dramatic. This video reminds me of those long ignorant facebook rants, generally by the older population, where people respond “spot on” and make themselves look bad. I have consistently stated that to say ALL white people have benefited from some privileged by being white and all black people have been disadvantaged is incorrect. And then to take this further by saying ALL white people are oppressors and all black people are oppressed is also a flawed theory. To abandon the goal of a color blind society is a huge mistake given the progress that has been made. Progressives have abandoned this, and seem to be advocating institutional racism to combat inherent American racism. I categorically oppose this philosophy. Maher is hitting on the point that there isn't the vast racism today that existed generations ago. White racism continues to fade with each generation - and we are at the point where the few that still have these racist believes have virtually no power in this country. And where racism still exists and causes great harm (police/criminal justice) - we should be doing what we can to correct. lmao this is all so bad
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 16, 2021 13:05:43 GMT -5
I have consistently stated that to say ALL white people have benefited from some privileged by being white and all black people have been disadvantaged is incorrect. And then to take this further by saying ALL white people are oppressors and all black people are oppressed is also a flawed theory. To abandon the goal of a color blind society is a huge mistake given the progress that has been made. Progressives have abandoned this, and seem to be advocating institutional racism to combat inherent American racism. I categorically oppose this philosophy. Maher is hitting on the point that there isn't the vast racism today that existed generations ago. White racism continues to fade with each generation - and we are at the point where the few that still have these racist believes have virtually no power in this country. And where racism still exists and causes great harm (police/criminal justice) - we should be doing what we can to correct. lmao this is all so bad It was too bad to engage with, IMO. So much denial and obfuscation.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 16, 2021 13:08:07 GMT -5
It was too bad to engage with, IMO. So much denial and obfuscation. I'm going to rebut a National Review parody of what anti-racism looks like, and then refuse to engage with what it actually is and insist that I'm right. (Oh, and I'm definitely NOT racist, despite supporting racist institutions and policies and refusing to recognize the history of racism in America).
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Post by donut on Jun 16, 2021 13:08:42 GMT -5
It was too bad to engage with, IMO. So much denial and obfuscation. He's just a broken record at this point.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 16, 2021 13:12:04 GMT -5
Looking at the elections this century. Here is the % increase (decrease) in votes from prior election:
2000: 9.5% 2004: 16.0% 2008: 7.5% 2012: -1.7% 2016: 6.1% 2020: 15.6%
Average increase is 10.8%. I don't think people remember how many fewer people than normal voted in 2012. There were millions of voters that stayed at home.
Another thing I found interesting (and related to the numbers above) is the increase (decrease) in votes for re-election:
Bush (+22.9%) Obama (-5.2%) Trump (+15.6%)
Not sure what drove all of these numbers, they were not what I was expecting when looking them up.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 16, 2021 13:16:26 GMT -5
It was too bad to engage with, IMO. So much denial and obfuscation. I'm going to rebut a National Review parody of what anti-racism looks like, and then refuse to engage with what it actually is and insist that I'm right. (Oh, and I'm definitely NOT racist, despite supporting racist institutions and policies and refusing to recognize the history of racism in America). I don't like these US Institutions/policies. I believe they are racist. Anyone that agrees with said policies must be racist. This is the typical argument I hear all the time - and I am the one that doesn't want to have an honest discussion on racism?
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Post by donut on Jun 16, 2021 13:23:30 GMT -5
I'm going to rebut a National Review parody of what anti-racism looks like, and then refuse to engage with what it actually is and insist that I'm right. (Oh, and I'm definitely NOT racist, despite supporting racist institutions and policies and refusing to recognize the history of racism in America). I don't like these US Institutions/policies. I believe they are racist. Anyone that agrees with said policies must be racist. This is the typical argument I hear all the time - and I am the one that doesn't want to have an honest discussion on racism? Please find one post (or conversation) that exemplifies this "typical argument."
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jun 16, 2021 13:23:33 GMT -5
I'm going to rebut a National Review parody of what anti-racism looks like, and then refuse to engage with what it actually is and insist that I'm right. (Oh, and I'm definitely NOT racist, despite supporting racist institutions and policies and refusing to recognize the history of racism in America). I don't like these US Institutions/policies. I believe they are racist. Anyone that agrees with said policies must be racist. This is the typical argument I hear all the time - and I am the one that doesn't want to have an honest discussion on racism? LOL I was convinced you were just arguing dishonestly, but to see you sum up the conversations this way just shows you have severe cognitive biases that prevent you from engaging on any of these topics appropriately. Keep on blaming the teachers' unions!
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