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Post by Phaedrus on Sept 27, 2021 15:36:04 GMT -5
Agree, the standard isn’t Stanford, but until the past year the volleyball facilities at NW were at the junior college level. Even with the world level education they have to offer getting B1G level players to commit there hasn’t been easy. I saw them in person last Wed and can only judge from that, but they have a number of B1G level players (just off hand #s 16, 19, 12 and 6 will cause any team they play some concern. . . And their setter 5 is an upper tier setter). I don’t have any explanation for how the team I saw last Wed could lose to some of the teams they lost to this fall, nor do I expect the public to ever have a full explanation for the shenanigans in the spring, but I do think getting rid of Davis now would be a mistake. On the other hand, looking at what they have and what they can offer, and the rich recruiting area they are in, Northwestern could be a great opportunity for a new coach. We’ll see how it goes. . .🏐 Junior college facilities is a bit of a stretch, but it's very true prior to the last 2-3 years they have been subpar by comparison to their B1G counterparts (or even some mid-majors, frankly). But the $$$ put into new construction and rehabilitating existing facilities makes the university competitive very competitive, plus the academics, plus the location, plus the conference, etc. I agree he and his staff have signed some very talented people – TTA is a franchise player, and they have consistently gotten Senior Aces (disclaimer: not sure that distinction really means much, but optically they are succeeding). So then the question remains: after 5 years (now in season 6) and with enough of his own recruits and much improved facilities: how are they not an NCAA contender by now? He has two jobs: 1. ensure a safe, positive environment for his players and 2. to win. Can't comment on the first because I have no idea the POV of the players, but can for sure comment on 2: he is far from it. And for all those turning this into a chance to rant about how Stanford is in a totally other league, clam down, they are. This isn't about NWU vs. Stanford or if Davis should have won a national title by now. This is about how he is miles away from getting them even on the NCAA bubble, let alone in. And sorry, taking a set off Nebraska and almost beating Illinois isn't not enough to justify giving the guy more time to get there. If he goes 10-10 in B!G *maybe* there's a pulse, but I would expect them to finish 2nd to last this season, 3rd to last at best. MARY CONWAY 3 YEARS 74-34 (0.685) • 7-9 (0.437)(B1G) JERRY ANGLE 15 Years 326-240-5 (0.570)• 131-121-1 (0.517) (B1G) MARGIE FITZPATRICK 3 YEARS 26-69 (0.273) • 4-56 (0.066) (B1G) KEVIN RENSHLER 3 YEARS 34-59 (0.365)• 13-47 (0.217)(B1G) KEYLOR CHAN 16 YEARS 228-247 (0.480)• 107-203 (0.345) (B1G) SHANE DAVIS 2016-2019 24-40 (0.375)• 7-33 (0.175)(B1G) Comparing Davis' record with the history of the program, here are the records. I couldn't find the results for the 2020 Spring Season Davis ranks 4th in all time win percentage. Fifth in B1G winning percentage. Out of six previous head coaches. Interesting thing is that the first two coaches in Northwestern Volleyball history: Mary Conway and Jerry Angle are the only coaches who had winning percentage over 0.500. Looking at the coaching record since 1994, Davis had the second highest winning percentage in that time. There are aspirations and then there is the reality.
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Hot Seat
Sept 27, 2021 17:33:18 GMT -5
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Post by pastasevensamurai on Sept 27, 2021 17:33:18 GMT -5
I was able to request a lot of coaches contracts, a lot of the schools, I mentioned and others have several years on their contract remaining. Private schools - unable. PM if you want a specific answer to a contract, won't post publicly. No one is buying out any VB coach without a donor picking up the tab. Out of curiosity, what kind of buyouts do volleyball coaches typically have? It's hard to imagine they're very expensive, but I could be wrong. Years left on the contract without cause. Hired for 5 years, coach for one year, AD says I made a mistake, they owe 4 years unless they have a out-clause of 6 months or length of the contract which ever is less. I’ve seen both. Pm me if you want links.
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Post by bbg95 on Sept 27, 2021 17:34:34 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, what kind of buyouts do volleyball coaches typically have? It's hard to imagine they're very expensive, but I could be wrong. Years left on the contract without cause. Hired for 5 years, coach for one year, AD says I made a mistake, they owe 4 years unless they have a out-clause of 6 months or length of the contract which ever is less. I’ve seen both. Pm me if you want links. I believe you. Thanks for the response.
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Hot Seat
Sept 28, 2021 21:33:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by pacfan123 on Sept 28, 2021 21:33:31 GMT -5
Oregon State Northwestern Arizona State Notre Dame Iowa
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Sept 28, 2021 21:37:36 GMT -5
Oregon State Northwestern Arizona State Notre Dame Iowa Hmm. really on ASU? Their results aren't horrible this year. I just realized they've gone 5-sets in over *half* of their matches. Going 5 with Louisville and Oregon is pretty respectable and then their 5-set losses really aren't that bad either.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 28, 2021 21:51:58 GMT -5
Oregon State Northwestern Arizona State Notre Dame Iowa Hmm. really on ASU? Their results aren't horrible this year. I just realized they've gone 5-sets in over *half* of their matches. Going 5 with Louisville and Oregon is pretty respectable and then their 5-set losses really aren't that bad either. I don't know why people are putting ASU on the hot seat. Coach did a commendable job pulling out of the total disaster and brought the team back to respectability. From 0-20 to 9-11 in the three seasons. The stopgap transfers that helped that team graduated and now there's a pretty young group coming through - all contributors have 2-3 more years of eligibility after this season - don't see why they'd pull the plug before seeing what the first recruiting cycle could really do, esp. since the coach has proven can manage to respectable results. Expectations aren't that high, and people are way overestimating what prior coaches had done apart from Macey Gardner not wanting to leave her hometown for college
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 28, 2021 22:08:18 GMT -5
Hmm. really on ASU? Their results aren't horrible this year. I just realized they've gone 5-sets in over *half* of their matches. Going 5 with Louisville and Oregon is pretty respectable and then their 5-set losses really aren't that bad either. I don't know why people are putting ASU on the hot seat. Coach did a commendable job pulling out of the total disaster and brought the team back to respectability. From 0-20 to 9-11 in the three seasons. The stopgap transfers that helped that team graduated and now there's a pretty young group coming through - all contributors have 2-3 more years of eligibility after this season - don't see why they'd pull the plug before seeing what the first recruiting cycle could really do, esp. since the coach has proven can manage to respectable results. Expectations aren't that high, and people are way overestimating what prior coaches had done apart from Macey Gardner not wanting to leave her hometown for college On a similar note, Mussie blowing everything up really hid what dire straights the program was in. Basically the entire lineup was graduating after her first season, there was almost no recruiting (and I think the last coach poached one of the two commits) and the underclassmen on the roster were not going to replace at a similar level. ASU was going to tank regardless, it just became extreme. Someone should send her a Christmas card.
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Post by huskyvolley on Sept 28, 2021 23:19:16 GMT -5
Oregon State Northwestern Arizona State Notre Dame Iowa Hmm. really on ASU? Their results aren't horrible this year. I just realized they've gone 5-sets in over *half* of their matches. Going 5 with Louisville and Oregon is pretty respectable and then their 5-set losses really aren't that bad either. I don't think Sonja should be on hot seat, but ASU could really use some consistency. They played 8 five-set conference matches (went 5-3) in 2019 There were also 8 five-set conference matches (went 3-5) this spring. They have played 7 five-set matches out of 13 total matches so far, they went 2-5. They have the pieces to compete, but they can't seem to win close matches. Hopefully they can finally make the tournament soon.
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Post by n00b on Sept 29, 2021 8:57:36 GMT -5
Expectations aren't that high, and people are way overestimating what prior coaches had done apart from Macey Gardner not wanting to leave her hometown for college And ADs always have realistic expectations? I don't actually know her job security. And I think she's done fine. But 5 years is a pretty typical contract length and when an AD will ask the question 'is this the person that can take us to the next step?' Next step for ASU is probably nothing more than an NCAA tournament every other year.
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Post by volleyaudience on Sept 29, 2021 10:26:13 GMT -5
Georgia needs to move on. Has a few years left on his deal. He might end up 12-18. Georgia ( 36-47 in sec last three plus this years), might need to hire new assistants? One reason given for Stivrins leaving Louisville for Georgia was the coach had professional experience and contacts. Does he have a history of helping produce some pro players? I really have no information.
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Post by SayonaraTachikara on Sept 29, 2021 10:51:25 GMT -5
Has a few years left on his deal. He might end up 12-18. Georgia ( 36-47 in sec last three plus this years), might need to hire new assistants? One reason given for Stivrins leaving Louisville for Georgia was the coach had professional experience and contacts. Does he have a history of helping produce some pro players? I really have no information. He has most recently coached the Canadian Womens National team and spent time with the USA WNT when he was at Loyola Marymount. I am sure he has some international contacts but he needs to build a winning culture at Georgia first. In order to produce pro players he needs to surround his players with the tools (players) to provide the results and stats that warrant pro results. Not there yet.
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Post by vbnerd on Sept 29, 2021 11:37:22 GMT -5
Hmm. really on ASU? Their results aren't horrible this year. I just realized they've gone 5-sets in over *half* of their matches. Going 5 with Louisville and Oregon is pretty respectable and then their 5-set losses really aren't that bad either. I don't know why people are putting ASU on the hot seat. Coach did a commendable job pulling out of the total disaster and brought the team back to respectability. From 0-20 to 9-11 in the three seasons. The stopgap transfers that helped that team graduated and now there's a pretty young group coming through - all contributors have 2-3 more years of eligibility after this season - don't see why they'd pull the plug before seeing what the first recruiting cycle could really do, esp. since the coach has proven can manage to respectable results. Expectations aren't that high, and people are way overestimating what prior coaches had done apart from Macey Gardner not wanting to leave her hometown for college ASU's volleyball coaches are not on the hot seat so long as ASU football is on the hotseat. The football staff with its list of NCAA violations are on the hot seat. AD Ray Anderson who handpicked a lot of the football staff is on the hot seat. President Crow isn't going to fire them and another team's staff all at the same time for wins and losses. However if the football team gets hot, and weathers the storm, then all bets are off.
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Post by ballvolley on Sept 29, 2021 12:33:45 GMT -5
Junior college facilities is a bit of a stretch, but it's very true prior to the last 2-3 years they have been subpar by comparison to their B1G counterparts (or even some mid-majors, frankly). But the $$$ put into new construction and rehabilitating existing facilities makes the university competitive very competitive, plus the academics, plus the location, plus the conference, etc. I agree he and his staff have signed some very talented people – TTA is a franchise player, and they have consistently gotten Senior Aces (disclaimer: not sure that distinction really means much, but optically they are succeeding). So then the question remains: after 5 years (now in season 6) and with enough of his own recruits and much improved facilities: how are they not an NCAA contender by now? He has two jobs: 1. ensure a safe, positive environment for his players and 2. to win. Can't comment on the first because I have no idea the POV of the players, but can for sure comment on 2: he is far from it. And for all those turning this into a chance to rant about how Stanford is in a totally other league, clam down, they are. This isn't about NWU vs. Stanford or if Davis should have won a national title by now. This is about how he is miles away from getting them even on the NCAA bubble, let alone in. And sorry, taking a set off Nebraska and almost beating Illinois isn't not enough to justify giving the guy more time to get there. If he goes 10-10 in B!G *maybe* there's a pulse, but I would expect them to finish 2nd to last this season, 3rd to last at best. MARY CONWAY 3 YEARS 74-34 (0.685) • 7-9 (0.437)(B1G) JERRY ANGLE 15 Years 326-240-5 (0.570)• 131-121-1 (0.517) (B1G) MARGIE FITZPATRICK 3 YEARS 26-69 (0.273) • 4-56 (0.066) (B1G) KEVIN RENSHLER 3 YEARS 34-59 (0.365)• 13-47 (0.217)(B1G) KEYLOR CHAN 16 YEARS 228-247 (0.480)• 107-203 (0.345) (B1G) SHANE DAVIS 2016-2019 24-40 (0.375)• 7-33 (0.175)(B1G) If you just focus on this century and compare Davis to Chan in their first 6 seasons: Keylor Chan 82-103 overall (.443); 44-76 B1G (.367) 2000: 7-23 (4-16)* 2001: 10-17 (6-14) 2002: 17-16 (10-10) NCAA 1st round 2003: 18-15 (9-11) NCAA 1st round 2004: 10-20 (5-15) 2005: 20-12 (10-10) NCAA 2nd round *2 wins due to Ohio St forfeitures Shane Davis 63-88 overall (.417); 22-70 B1G (.239) 2016: 10-12 (3-17) 2017: 14-18 (4-16) 2018: 16-16 (6-14) 2019: 14-18 (5-15) 2020-21: 4-6 (4-6)+ 2021 (in-progress): 5-8 (0-2) +COVID season; team had to cancel or forfeit the other 12 matches So, one could argue that it's not a fair comparison since NWU didn't have a full COVID season and since the current season is still in progress. One could also argue that the overall winning % comparing the 2 in their first 6 seasons is fairly close. But the B1G differential is significant (and pre-conference can easily be a cream puff to skew overall results). Also, by season 6 Chan had 3 NCAA trips under his belt and proved NWU could compete with every team in the league up to that point (even their dreadful first season in 2000 they beat defending champs Penn State). If I'm an AD thinking of renewing a contract, I bet on that. (Note: Obviously the AD loses that bet, since Chan's success pretty much stopped there, save for another NCAA 2nd round appearance in 2010, with a few respectable, ie winning record, seasons here and there). We'll see if David can turn it around, but I predict their best case this season is a 5-15 B1G year, meaning he'd be at 27-83 (.245) in B1G play after 6 seasons (with his best showing in 2018 with 6 wins in league play and a .500 record overall). If I'm an AD who cares, I thank him for his time and show him the door in December. ––––––––– Comparing Davis' record with the history of the program, here are the records. I couldn't find the results for the 2020 Spring Season Davis ranks 4th in all time win percentage. Fifth in B1G winning percentage. Out of six previous head coaches. Interesting thing is that the first two coaches in Northwestern Volleyball history: Mary Conway and Jerry Angle are the only coaches who had winning percentage over 0.500. Looking at the coaching record since 1994, Davis had the second highest winning percentage in that time. There are aspirations and then there is the reality.
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Post by Phaedrus on Sept 29, 2021 13:27:20 GMT -5
MARY CONWAY 3 YEARS 74-34 (0.685) • 7-9 (0.437)(B1G) JERRY ANGLE 15 Years 326-240-5 (0.570)• 131-121-1 (0.517) (B1G) MARGIE FITZPATRICK 3 YEARS 26-69 (0.273) • 4-56 (0.066) (B1G) KEVIN RENSHLER 3 YEARS 34-59 (0.365)• 13-47 (0.217)(B1G) KEYLOR CHAN 16 YEARS 228-247 (0.480)• 107-203 (0.345) (B1G) SHANE DAVIS 2016-2019 24-40 (0.375)• 7-33 (0.175)(B1G) If you just focus on this century and compare Davis to Chan in their first 6 seasons: Keylor Chan 82-103 overall (.443); 44-76 B1G (.367) 2000: 7-23 (4-16)* 2001: 10-17 (6-14) 2002: 17-16 (10-10) NCAA 1st round 2003: 18-15 (9-11) NCAA 1st round 2004: 10-20 (5-15) 2005: 20-12 (10-10) NCAA 2nd round *2 wins due to Ohio St forfeitures Shane Davis 63-88 overall (.417); 22-70 B1G (.239) 2016: 10-12 (3-17) 2017: 14-18 (4-16) 2018: 16-16 (6-14) 2019: 14-18 (5-15) 2020-21: 4-6 (4-6)+ 2021 (in-progress): 5-8 (0-2) +COVID season; team had to cancel or forfeit the other 12 matches So, one could argue that it's not a fair comparison since NWU didn't have a full COVID season and since the current season is still in progress. One could also argue that the overall winning % comparing the 2 in their first 6 seasons is fairly close. But the B1G differential is significant (and pre-conference can easily be a cream puff to skew overall results). Also, by season 6 Chan had 3 NCAA trips under his belt and proved NWU could compete with every team in the league up to that point (even their dreadful first season in 2000 they beat defending champs Penn State). If I'm an AD thinking of renewing a contract, I bet on that. (Note: Obviously the AD loses that bet, since Chan's success pretty much stopped there, save for another NCAA 2nd round appearance in 2010, with a few respectable, ie winning record, seasons here and there). We'll see if David can turn it around, but I predict their best case this season is a 5-15 B1G year, meaning he'd be at 27-83 (.245) in B1G play after 6 seasons (with his best showing in 2018 with 6 wins in league play and a .500 record overall). If I'm an AD who cares, I thank him for his time and show him the door in December. ––––––––– Comparing Davis' record with the history of the program, here are the records. I couldn't find the results for the 2020 Spring Season Davis ranks 4th in all time win percentage. Fifth in B1G winning percentage. Out of six previous head coaches. Interesting thing is that the first two coaches in Northwestern Volleyball history: Mary Conway and Jerry Angle are the only coaches who had winning percentage over 0.500. Looking at the coaching record since 1994, Davis had the second highest winning percentage in that time. There are aspirations and then there is the reality. Great points. To address you point but the AD issue. Northwestern's AD was hired in June of 2021. The previous AD left February 2021 to be the new Commissioner for the ACC. In the interim they had promoted an associate AD from within, but he resigned in May of 2021 after 10 days because of the some controversy. So the athletic department was rudderless for five months. The point is: - There was no one in a position to make the call on the accusations against Davis, they wanted to leave that decision for the new AD.
- I don't know for sure HOW the team trained during the interim, or even if they trained when the coaching staff was sidelined.
- New AD is on board and he made the call on Davis. I don't know what he decided but the proof of the pudding is that Davis is there, he is coaching.
- I would think that if the AD was unhappy with Davis or his situation he might have gone another direction, as they say.
- I do know that Northwestern was not able to retain some of the fifth year players who were eligible to transfer because of COVID, which didn't help their team. Who knows how many recruits they lost because of this five month CF.
Assuming that nothing substantial came of the Northwestern investigation into the team controversy, and the problems created by the administration's inaction during those five months, it wouldn't be inconceivable to imagine that they gave Davis several mulligans.
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Post by Friday on Sept 29, 2021 13:40:13 GMT -5
Oregon State Northwestern Arizona State Notre Dame Iowa Seems like you need to add Missouri and Alabama to this list.
I don't think Iowa is in the hot seat. They will give Brown more time given what she took over.
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