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Post by babybacksets on Sept 9, 2021 14:02:43 GMT -5
I wonder if you see the specialization of the Libero position between defense/serve receive increase if the libero subbing rule for women goes the way of men’s college/boys club. As far as i know, could be mistaken, you can’t currently sub your libero out for a better passing lib on opponents serve and then your better defensive libero on your serve.
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Post by mikegarrison on Sept 9, 2021 14:26:33 GMT -5
Every team would love to not ever use a DS. Because that would mean they had a full roster of 6-rot players.
But most teams don't have a full roster of 6-rot players.
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Post by mikegarrison on Sept 9, 2021 14:29:12 GMT -5
I wonder if you see the specialization of the Libero position between defense/serve receive increase if the libero subbing rule for women goes the way of men’s college/boys club. As far as i know, could be mistaken, you can’t currently sub your libero out for a better passing lib on opponents serve and then your better defensive libero on your serve. NCAA women's VB rules are different from standard FIVB volleyball in many regards. Liberos can serve. But can't swap between two different liberos in a set. (And much more liberal substitution rules, too.) NCAA men's VB follows FIVB rules much more closely, IIRC. |
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Post by robtearle on Sept 9, 2021 14:43:42 GMT -5
They are all at Wisconsin. Ashburn, Barnes, Boyer and Civita have played every set so far, and somehow they got MacDonald, Reed and even Gregorski in for some back row work. "MacDonald, Reed and even Gregorski" have been used just to serve in place of the 'serving' middle on a few occasions. For the first weekend matches Ashburn was limited to that serving role (much more regularly than the others) but when freshman OH Julia Orzol was not able to play the second weekend, Ashburn was used as a more traditional DS (Orzol played six rotations the first weekend). Boyer and Civita both true DSs, subbing for the OPP and one of the left OHs, respectively. Generally, no; at Wisconsin DS use has not been reduced at all. ---------------------------------------------------------- (Related, BTW, I'd like to see "TV" add a countdown of "subs remaining" when it gets to three or so left; my Badgers use them so much, I'm used to worrying about the countdown when sets are back-and-forth, but I'm rarely "sure" of the exact count.) |
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Post by volleydadtx on Sept 9, 2021 14:44:00 GMT -5
Every team would love to not ever use a DS. Because that would mean they had a full roster of 6-rot players. But most teams don't have a full roster of 6-rot players. No doubt about that. The question is, what sort of passing average and defense skills constitutes a 6 rotation player? If your DSs are passing above a 2.0, and your hitters are passing 1.8 (just using this as an example), is the degradation in serve receive accuracy and defense less important than limiting substitutions and/or having a better back row attack option? If the hitters were basically passing the ball equal to the DSs, then DSs would never come onto the floor for them. And same for digs. So where is that delta on passing average differential? A 2.2 passer is averaging an an-system pass every time, a few of them right on the setter's head. A 2.0 passer is still averaging in-system. A 1.8 passer, there are balls having to be hunted down. |
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Post by BuckysHeat on Sept 9, 2021 14:48:22 GMT -5
Hopefully. Specialization is limiting all sports, the players need to learn all aspects of the game. Far too many clubs sub girls out starting out at 11's, is it any wonder true 6-ro players are almost an anomaly? Start teaching the pins to pass at 11's and let them keep it up through their HS careers international style.
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Post by volleydadtx on Sept 9, 2021 15:04:35 GMT -5
Hopefully, specialization is limiting all sports, the players need to learn all aspects of the game. Far too many clubs sub girls out starting out at 11's, is it any wonder true 6-ro players are almost an anomaly? Start teaching the pins to pass at 11's and let them keep it up through their HS careers international style. And start teaching those 5'0 girls to play 2 feet above the net! |
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Post by sclawman on Sept 9, 2021 15:13:56 GMT -5
Hopefully, specialization is limiting all sports, the players need to learn all aspects of the game. Far too many clubs sub girls out starting out at 11's, is it any wonder true 6-ro players are almost an anomaly? Start teaching the pins to pass at 11's and let them keep it up through their HS careers international style. I hear you. But, understandably, no parent is spending thousands of dollars for their kid to sit on the bench. So every player gets some playing time, which limits the number of 6 rotation players on most club teams. |
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Post by vbfamily on Sept 9, 2021 17:35:50 GMT -5
I had two really good 6-rotation OHs in club that could pass and hit back row (both have been continual starters/stars on their D1 teams and mostly playing 6-rotations in college). We ran a 6-2 (with two setters that "could" run a 5-1 5'9 and 5'10 and "could" hit if needed (but not our best option in Open). I also had an amazing libero and another amazing libero/DS. No way I could leave my DS off the floor, she was really good. My two 6-rotation pins each played one set all around and one just 3-rotations, if we went to three, the player that won the set played the third. Unselfish kids that trained extra hard back row in practice. We used all 12 subs often, but I had a strong 5-1 lineup at the end with who was left on the floor. Also, every player trained in all skills, so we did some funky lineups when we had injuries or illnesses and found success.
Serve receive is key...if one 6-rotation player passes a 1.8 and hits back row well, but the libero and the other 6-rotation player pass very well and can take a lot of court, you probably want the offense out of the back. If the other two don't pass well or can't take much court then you're more likely to use a strong passing DS. But these decisions depend on so many factors and what will score the most points with limiting the opponent to score. I watched a Nebraska team that used two amazing DS's along with a great libero. The way the ball kept coming back was a big reason Creighton was so frustrated.
The defensive side of a DS depends on how well your team terminates in and out-of-system. If your team can terminate on the first ball, no need for defense, right? However, as said with Nebraska, having a team that keeps the ball off the floor can mentally frustrate opposing hitters where they have to change their hitting, which more often than not, leads to errors.
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Post by BuckysHeat on Sept 9, 2021 21:31:57 GMT -5
Hopefully, specialization is limiting all sports, the players need to learn all aspects of the game. Far too many clubs sub girls out starting out at 11's, is it any wonder true 6-ro players are almost an anomaly? Start teaching the pins to pass at 11's and let them keep it up through their HS careers international style. And start teaching those 5'0 girls to play 2 feet above the net! never too early to start working on that vertical  |
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Post by mervinswerved on Sept 9, 2021 21:41:39 GMT -5
(Related, BTW, I'd like to see "TV" add a countdown of "subs remaining" when it gets to three or so left; my Badgers use them so much, I'm used to worrying about the countdown when sets are back-and-forth, but I'm rarely "sure" of the exact count.) This would be a hard thing to do on a broadcast unless broadcasters had access to live scorebook data. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Sept 9, 2021 22:21:32 GMT -5
(Related, BTW, I'd like to see "TV" add a countdown of "subs remaining" when it gets to three or so left; my Badgers use them so much, I'm used to worrying about the countdown when sets are back-and-forth, but I'm rarely "sure" of the exact count.) This would be a hard thing to do on a broadcast unless broadcasters had access to live scorebook data. Can't they just keep count? |
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Post by Not Me on Sept 9, 2021 22:24:10 GMT -5
Sorry that your daughter isn’t playing g as much as you think she should.
Are those passing “stats” coming from the team, or are they your own stats?
Every coach would rather have a 6 rotation player than a passing/serving sub. DS only exist because coaches can’t train the OH to be be better passers. Train the OH, and the need for DS goes away quickly, other than at practice.
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Post by rjaege on Sept 10, 2021 3:44:41 GMT -5
Nebraska having success now using a libero and 2 DS players all on the court simulataneously at times. At least in Huskerland the DS is far from dead.
Developing 6 rotation players is the goal for OH's. But the best libero's are always shorter. There's are reason for that related to their max performance potential in the back row, which is why the DS position remains.
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Post by mervinswerved on Sept 10, 2021 6:09:39 GMT -5
This would be a hard thing to do on a broadcast unless broadcasters had access to live scorebook data. Can't they just keep count? If there's a stats person on the crew, sure.That's how NFL/NBA/MLB/NHL crews work. If it's just me and a PxP person (plus the control room), it'd be really hard to track subs in real time. I have a lot of talking to do! |
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