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Post by mikegarrison on Sept 15, 2021 4:23:04 GMT -5
The concept of a recall election is not really a bad one. It essentially serves as a "vote of no confidence". But California's specific recall law is not good. It can leave the state with a governor who actually only receives a very small fraction of the total votes. I would say that at the very least, the new governor should be forced to have more votes than the old governor in order to replace him, but there is no provision for that at all.
When Arnold Schwarzenegger replaced Gray Davis, he had 4.2M votes, compared to only 4.0M to retain Davis as governor. So that was OK. But Schwarzenegger could have been elected with a few as 2.8M votes, if the voting in the replacement election had been more split. (The next highest replacement candidate got 2.7M votes.) That would have been a problem, because more people would have voted to keep the old governor than voted for new one, but the new one would still have replaced the old one.
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Post by akbar on Sept 15, 2021 5:40:59 GMT -5
$270 million POS Trumpers just wasted.
Fools
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Post by gobruins on Sept 15, 2021 9:00:13 GMT -5
The concept of a recall election is not really a bad one. It essentially serves as a "vote of no confidence". But California's specific recall law is not good. It can leave the state with a governor who actually only receives a very small fraction of the total votes. I would say that at the very least, the new governor should be forced to have more votes than the old governor in order to replace him, but there is no provision for that at all. When Arnold Schwarzenegger replaced Gray Davis, he had 4.2M votes, compared to only 4.0M to retain Davis as governor. So that was OK. But Schwarzenegger could have been elected with a few as 2.8M votes, if the voting in the replacement election had been more split. (The next highest replacement candidate got 2.7M votes.) That would have been a problem, because more people would have voted to keep the old governor than voted for new one, but the new one would still have replaced the old one. They need to change the recall procedures to one of two systems: 1. If the Governor is recalled, the Lieutenant Governor becomes Governor (same as V.P. becomes President if the President is removed through impeachment). This would eliminate the Republican incentive to keep trying to qualify recall elections in California. 2. If the Governor is recalled, a separate election is held for his/her successor. In addition, they need to greatly increase the number of signatures required to get on the ballot. Currently they only need signatures of 12% of the people who voted in the previous election. In most other states that have a recall provision, the requirement is 20-25%.
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Post by mervinswerved on Sept 15, 2021 9:36:46 GMT -5
As I understand it from the panicked messages from some of my Facebook friends, the big concern from Democrats is that the Republicans might have higher voter turnout percentages. They shouldn't be concerned. "no" is going to win by 15. I was wrong- with 68% of the vote counted, "no" leads by 28 points, not 15.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 15, 2021 10:38:18 GMT -5
$270 million POS Trumpers just wasted. Fools How much money was wasted on TWO impeachments by "POS's" with Trump Derangement Syndrome? If we're calling people out.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Sept 15, 2021 11:02:49 GMT -5
$270 million POS Trumpers just wasted. Fools How much money was wasted on TWO impeachments by "POS's" with Trump Derangement Syndrome? If we're calling people out. Yes, it was the critics of Trump who were deranged, not Trump himself.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 15, 2021 11:17:53 GMT -5
How much money was wasted on TWO impeachments by "POS's" with Trump Derangement Syndrome? If we're calling people out. Yes, it was the critics of Trump who were deranged, not Trump himself. Do you think he was a madman? There's a difference between being a rightful critic of his actions and having TDS.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Sept 15, 2021 11:31:04 GMT -5
Yes, it was the critics of Trump who were deranged, not Trump himself. Do you think he was a madman? There's a difference between being a rightful critic of his actions and having TDS. His actions lead me to believe he was. I guess it is how one defines madman, but by the definition I’ve read, the shoe seems to fit? Is he insane or mentally ill? Not medically qualified to answer that. Do I think he behaved recklessly, could not control his own speech, could not handle questions from reporters or attacked them, attacked and gave childish nicknames to his own party members (and opposition).acted impulsively, yes, completely so. I think even if these behaviors are acceptable to a common man, it certainly shouldn’t be for the president of USA. Narcissistic? You betcha. Show me examples for your 2nd statement.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 15, 2021 11:44:04 GMT -5
Do you think he was a madman? There's a difference between being a rightful critic of his actions and having TDS. His actions lead me to believe he was. I guess it is how one defines madman, but by the definition I’ve read, the shoe seems to fit? Is he insane or mentally ill? Not medically qualified to answer that. Do I think he behaved recklessly, could not control his own speech, could not handle questions from reporters or attacked them, attacked and gave childish nicknames to his own party members (and opposition).acted impulsively, yes, completely so. I think even if these behaviors are acceptable to a common man, it certainly shouldn’t be for the president of USA. Narcissistic? You betcha. Show me examples for your 2nd statement. For me the biggest example of TDS is that anyone thought that he was going to bring us to nuclear war. In all of his interactions with foreign countries (North Korea being the first to come to mind) it was thought that a war would ensue. Never happened, not even close. Also most of the behaviors you described, while not being "Presidential", you ceded as being even borderline acceptable for a common man. This leads me to believe they are not the actions of a madman. An A$$hole yes, madman no. ALSO... the fact that people were promising to impeach him basically from the moment he got elected was a strong form of TDS. He hadn't even DONE anything yet. Even Dave Chapelle was willing to give him a chance and I'm pretty sure he was no fan.
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Post by BearClause on Sept 15, 2021 11:50:19 GMT -5
The concept of a recall election is not really a bad one. It essentially serves as a "vote of no confidence". But California's specific recall law is not good. It can leave the state with a governor who actually only receives a very small fraction of the total votes. I would say that at the very least, the new governor should be forced to have more votes than the old governor in order to replace him, but there is no provision for that at all. When Arnold Schwarzenegger replaced Gray Davis, he had 4.2M votes, compared to only 4.0M to retain Davis as governor. So that was OK. But Schwarzenegger could have been elected with a few as 2.8M votes, if the voting in the replacement election had been more split. (The next highest replacement candidate got 2.7M votes.) That would have been a problem, because more people would have voted to keep the old governor than voted for new one, but the new one would still have replaced the old one. In this case there were nearly half ballots (compared to the number of YES/NO recall votes) where the voter declined to vote for a replacement candidate (or maybe overvoted and that part was voided). I guess there might be some ballots that contained no selections, which happens a few times every election. It's essentially a two-part process with a special election. However, all special elections in California (with the exception of US Senate special elections) are a hybrid between an open primary and a regular election. It requires a 50% threshold of votes to select a candidate immediately. Otherwise it goes to a runoff between the top two candidates. We had that in the CA-25 Congressional district last year. US Senate special elections in California are different because they can only happen during general elections to serve the remainder of a term of office. If the next general election is when the seat would have already been up for election then it just proceeds normally. But a replacement special election is different since the new Senator can be sworn in as soon as the result is certified. Senator Feinstein actually had seniority on Senators elected the same year as a result, because she was only serving the 2 year remainder of Pete Wilson's term. The Governor gets to appoint a replacement if there's a vacancy between general elections, and this was mentioned regarding the recall election because Feinstein is receiving calls to resign along with concerns about her age/fitness, and Larry Elder saying that absolutely he would appoint a Republican if he were Governor and had the chance. There have been some calls to maybe use another system for the replacement selection. Maybe ranked-choice voting or make it like special elections where it's a 50% threshold or else it goes into a runoff. This process became law (actually in the California Constitution) by ballot proposition, and can only be changed by ballot proposition as a result. I could easily see this being changed because enough are tired of this circus.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Sept 15, 2021 11:51:22 GMT -5
His actions lead me to believe he was. I guess it is how one defines madman, but by the definition I’ve read, the shoe seems to fit? Is he insane or mentally ill? Not medically qualified to answer that. Do I think he behaved recklessly, could not control his own speech, could not handle questions from reporters or attacked them, attacked and gave childish nicknames to his own party members (and opposition).acted impulsively, yes, completely so. I think even if these behaviors are acceptable to a common man, it certainly shouldn’t be for the president of USA. Narcissistic? You betcha. Show me examples for your 2nd statement. For me the biggest example of TDS is that anyone thought that he was going to bring us to nuclear war. In all of his interactions with foreign countries (North Korea being the first to come to mind) it was thought that a war would ensue. Never happened, not even close. Also most of the behaviors you described, while not being "Presidential", you ceded as being even borderline acceptable for a common man. This leads me to believe they are not the actions of a madman. An A$$hole yes, madman no. I didn't cede that. I said 'even' if. I don't think they are acceptable at all, that's me. But one may view anything acceptable as something legal. And if concern about bringing us to nuclear war is the best example, I'm not buying it. To me, that's saying that people concerned about North Korea are *only* concerned about calling Kim Jung Un Rocket Man and threatening North Korea BECAUSE it was Trump who did it. That's certainly faulty.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 15, 2021 12:00:45 GMT -5
For me the biggest example of TDS is that anyone thought that he was going to bring us to nuclear war. In all of his interactions with foreign countries (North Korea being the first to come to mind) it was thought that a war would ensue. Never happened, not even close. Also most of the behaviors you described, while not being "Presidential", you ceded as being even borderline acceptable for a common man. This leads me to believe they are not the actions of a madman. An A$$hole yes, madman no. I didn't cede that. I said 'even' if. I don't think they are acceptable at all, that's me. But one may view anything acceptable as something legal. Again big difference between being an A$$hole and a madman! Big difference between being socially unacceptable and clinically certifiable. Even us using this much of the post about the California Recall to discuss Trump is whacked. I'll admit it's partially my fault but it was in response to blaming "Trumpsters" for this colossal waste of time and money while not acknowledging that it's been perpetrated by "the other side" as well.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Sept 15, 2021 12:06:03 GMT -5
I'll admit it's partially my fault but it was in response to blaming "Trumpsters" for this colossal waste of time and money while not acknowledging that it's been perpetrated by "the other side" as well. You guys are really good with this 'both sides' stuff! I'll give you this one is much closer to 'equivalent' than some of the other extreme reaches. This is a better, but still real reach.
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Post by BearClause on Sept 15, 2021 12:26:50 GMT -5
I'll just say that part of the strategy by Democrats was to campaign for a no vote and to recommend against voting for a replacement candidate. It was about "why even think of the possibility of needing a replacement?" I personally voted that way, and it looks like the large majority of NO voters did too.
But if this was a 50% threshold to avoid a runoff, I think there might have been a different strategy where Democrats would have mounted a real replacement candidate as a back - and probably the Lt Gov. In 2003, Cruz Bustamante was that candidate and he was clearly in 2nd place and would have stood a good chance of beating Schwarzenegger in a runoff.
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Post by akbar on Sept 15, 2021 13:02:34 GMT -5
I didn't cede that. I said 'even' if. I don't think they are acceptable at all, that's me. But one may view anything acceptable as something legal. Again big difference between being an A$$hole and a madman! Trump is whacked. blaming "Trumpsters" for this colossal waste of time and money while not acknowledging that it's been perpetrated by "the other side" as well. Yawn. Climb back under your rock. The country is moving foward and "T"dumpsters are the anchor that is being dropped. Good riddance
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