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Post by n00b on Sept 21, 2021 10:05:40 GMT -5
So was there miscommunication by our administration somewhere or did 15,000 people all decide to "give it a shot" and come over? Basically my question is how is it that we have 15,000 people living under a bridge waiting to play red rover? No, the United States is party to the 1967 UN protocol regarding refugees and we have a legal responsibility to adhere to that treaty. We currently are not. Are these Haitians fearing persecution from their government based on race, nationality, religion, political opinion and membership of a particular social group? A quick Google says that's what the 1951 UN convention and 1967 protocol is about. Am I missing something about what's going on in Haiti? My impression was that they were making this gamble because of extreme poverty and unsafe neighborhoods. You can argue we should let those people in, but it doesn't really seem like that's what the asylum process is intended for.
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Post by mervinswerved on Sept 21, 2021 10:14:33 GMT -5
No, the United States is party to the 1967 UN protocol regarding refugees and we have a legal responsibility to adhere to that treaty. We currently are not. Are these Haitians fearing persecution from their government based on race, nationality, religion, political opinion and membership of a particular social group? A quick Google says that's what the 1951 UN convention and 1967 protocol is about. Am I missing something about what's going on in Haiti? My impression was that they were making this gamble because of extreme poverty and unsafe neighborhoods. You can argue we should let those people in, but it doesn't really seem like that's what the asylum process is intended for. Who knows? We're putting them back on planes and/or denying them entry before actually processing them. The government could also grant them TPS if the administration wanted to.
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Post by mervinswerved on Sept 21, 2021 10:20:12 GMT -5
What I'm saying is that treating people like this is a choice and we're free to make a different one.
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Post by donut on Sept 21, 2021 10:31:26 GMT -5
No, the United States is party to the 1967 UN protocol regarding refugees and we have a legal responsibility to adhere to that treaty. We currently are not. Are these Haitians fearing persecution from their government based on race, nationality, religion, political opinion and membership of a particular social group? A quick Google says that's what the 1951 UN convention and 1967 protocol is about. Am I missing something about what's going on in Haiti? My impression was that they were making this gamble because of extreme poverty and unsafe neighborhoods. You can argue we should let those people in, but it doesn't really seem like that's what the asylum process is intended for.You should do more research on asylum law. It's more complicated than the single sentence you provided. If your government leaves you completely helpless against harm, you could have an asylum claim.
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Post by BearClause on Sept 21, 2021 10:31:46 GMT -5
Because . . . they're not being welcomed in this country. So was there miscommunication by our administration somewhere or did 15,000 people all decide to "give it a shot" and come over? Basically my question is how is it that we have 15,000 people living under a bridge waiting to play red rover? Word of mouth apparently. And many waiting are being processed. Many were living outside of Haiti for years.
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Post by n00b on Sept 21, 2021 10:36:52 GMT -5
So was there miscommunication by our administration somewhere or did 15,000 people all decide to "give it a shot" and come over? Basically my question is how is it that we have 15,000 people living under a bridge waiting to play red rover? Word of mouth apparently. And many waiting are being processed. Many were living outside of Haiti for years. Aren’t they willing to take this risk because of extreme poverty? How would a person living in extreme poverty get from Haiti to Mexico?
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Post by BearClause on Sept 21, 2021 10:55:38 GMT -5
Word of mouth apparently. And many waiting are being processed. Many were living outside of Haiti for years. Aren’t they willing to take this risk because of extreme poverty? How would a person living in extreme poverty get from Haiti to Mexico? Not just Mexico. The article I linked mentioned Cuba, Costa Rica, and all over South America. But they seem to coordinate on social media to some degree.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 21, 2021 11:01:11 GMT -5
Word of mouth apparently. And many waiting are being processed. Many were living outside of Haiti for years. Aren’t they willing to take this risk because of extreme poverty? How would a person living in extreme poverty get from Haiti to Mexico? I'm guessing their route would be Haiti to Cuba and from there to South America by ship. From there they migrated north by bus or by walking. Make no mistake, they've gone through an ordeal.
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Post by Orpheus on Sept 21, 2021 11:39:37 GMT -5
I apologize for not citing to the source as I can’t remember where I read it, but my understanding is that many of the Haitians were already in South and Central America following natural disasters and other tragic events in Haiti in the early 2010s. They found cheap labor in Brazil for World Cup and Olympic related construction projects, found work and relaxed entry into other countries, and generally survived on the status quo pre-pandemic. As their local economies crashed with the pandemic, they began searching for a better place and allegedly found the Del Rio border to be open, so they went there and spread the word like wildfire. Ah, I found it. Some posters may not like the website but I’m pretty sure this article is more informative than political: www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/del-rio-migrant-crisis-how-did-so-many-haitians-end-up-at-the-southern-us-border/ar-AAOEN7U?ocid=ientp
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 21, 2021 13:04:37 GMT -5
I apologize for not citing to the source as I can’t remember where I read it, but my understanding is that many of the Haitians were already in South and Central America following natural disasters and other tragic events in Haiti in the early 2010s. They found cheap labor in Brazil for World Cup and Olympic related construction projects, found work and relaxed entry into other countries, and generally survived on the status quo pre-pandemic. As their local economies crashed with the pandemic, they began searching for a better place and allegedly found the Del Rio border to be open, so they went there and spread the word like wildfire. Ah, I found it. Some posters may not like the website but I’m pretty sure this article is more informative than political: www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/del-rio-migrant-crisis-how-did-so-many-haitians-end-up-at-the-southern-us-border/ar-AAOEN7U?ocid=ientpThank you for sharing!
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Post by mikegarrison on Sept 21, 2021 13:54:48 GMT -5
Remember the good old days when we let white people just take a ship to America and come in? A land of immigrants, we called ourselves. (Well, except for the people who were already living here pre-Columbian.)
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Post by BearClause on Sept 21, 2021 15:10:12 GMT -5
Aren’t they willing to take this risk because of extreme poverty? How would a person living in extreme poverty get from Haiti to Mexico? I'm guessing their route would be Haiti to Cuba and from there to South America by ship. From there they migrated north by bus or by walking. Make no mistake, they've gone through an ordeal. More likely to the Dominican Republic first, which is still relatively poor but had better infrastructure than Haiti.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 21, 2021 17:20:45 GMT -5
I'm guessing their route would be Haiti to Cuba and from there to South America by ship. From there they migrated north by bus or by walking. Make no mistake, they've gone through an ordeal. More likely to the Dominican Republic first, which is still relatively poor but had better infrastructure than Haiti. Quite possibly www.paradise-islands.org/caribbean-map.htm
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Post by mervinswerved on Sept 22, 2021 16:23:47 GMT -5
Sure, let's just send Haitian asylum seekers to Gitmo instead.
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Sept 22, 2021 16:56:15 GMT -5
Sure, let's just send Haitian asylum seekers to Gitmo instead. Zut alors! That's the closest to creole that I get.
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