|
Post by slxpress on Feb 3, 2023 13:02:29 GMT -5
B12 Volleyball next year - any word on the conference schedule? 13 teams - I assume they will not play a 26 game conference season. They shouldn't play 20 games - it should be 18 if they are smart. There will be some teams that will only play once. I am surprised that a deal couldn't be worked out for TX/OU to leave after 2023. I always felt that the B12 could be made 'whole'. ESPN would rather the move occur earlier than later. It was how to compensate FOX that I felt would be the major stumbling block. I didn't think about OU also being an issue. Dennis Dodd's latest on the failed attempt for OU/TX to leave (and time is running out) - and what Gonzaga might do (Yorkman wants them as a Basketball only addition to the B12). And that SDSU is an option for the B12 (I have a hard time seeing that one). www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/national-signing-day-2023-south-carolina-arizona-state-among-winners-as-pac-12-powers-miss-on-key-targets/That link doesn’t go where I think you intend it to go, bluepenquin. I’m with you. 18 matches is a good number. I’m excited about the volleyball additions to the conference. I’m not as sanguine in other sports, but in volleyball adding BYU, UH, and UCF feels like a genuine win-win.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Feb 3, 2023 13:03:57 GMT -5
Fair enough. I think you may have been too close to the situation. I'm sure if it was just up to Texas, it would get done. But it's not like it was unknown that FOX would object to it, that Oklahoma isn't as wealthy as Texas, and that the Big 12 would demand a very high price. I don’t know whether I’m too close or not. What I do know is that I’m wrong, and it’s disappointing to me. It happens. It’s easy to be right in hindsight. You guessed right on this one. Congratulations. I don’t know what else you’re expecting. All I'm saying is this wasn't an outcome that was hard to foresee for people who weren't Texas and Oklahoma. Hindsight was not necessary. I would not have been shocked if a deal got done, as ultimately it just depended on the amount of money needed. But it was always less likely than not. Anyway, I'll move on.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Feb 3, 2023 13:11:04 GMT -5
B12 Volleyball next year - any word on the conference schedule? 13 teams - I assume they will not play a 26 game conference season. They shouldn't play 20 games - it should be 18 if they are smart. There will be some teams that will only play once. I am surprised that a deal couldn't be worked out for TX/OU to leave after 2023. I always felt that the B12 could be made 'whole'. ESPN would rather the move occur earlier than later. It was how to compensate FOX that I felt would be the major stumbling block. I didn't think about OU also being an issue. Dennis Dodd's latest on the failed attempt for OU/TX to leave (and time is running out) - and what Gonzaga might do (Yorkman wants them as a Basketball only addition to the B12). And that SDSU is an option for the B12 (I have a hard time seeing that one). www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/national-signing-day-2023-south-carolina-arizona-state-among-winners-as-pac-12-powers-miss-on-key-targets/I haven't read Dodd's article yet (I'll do that when I'm doing my cardio at the gym), but my thoughts on these issues in general: -I've already covered the Texas/Oklahoma early exit issue in my other comments and won't belabor them here -Gonzaga makes sense to me, as the Big 12 is the best basketball conference, and Gonzaga is a premier basketball program. The fact that they don't play football isn't that big of a deal to me, but I understand that a lot of Big 12 fans don't want to deal with a non-football school. -I think the chances of San Diego State to the Big 12 are effectively zero by itself and only would work in conjunction with, say, Arizona.
|
|
|
Post by stevehorn on Feb 3, 2023 13:13:59 GMT -5
Fair enough. I think you may have been too close to the situation. I'm sure if it was just up to Texas, it would get done. But it's not like it was unknown that FOX would object to it, that Oklahoma isn't as wealthy as Texas, and that the Big 12 would demand a very high price. I don’t know whether I’m too close or not. What I do know is that I’m wrong, and it’s disappointing to me. It happens. It’s easy to be right in hindsight. You guessed right on this one. Congratulations. I don’t know what else you’re expecting. The follow-ups from the Texas side are to ignore Thamel. Negotiations are continuing today. Reports indicate that FOX is the hold-up.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Feb 3, 2023 13:14:54 GMT -5
I don’t know whether I’m too close or not. What I do know is that I’m wrong, and it’s disappointing to me. It happens. It’s easy to be right in hindsight. You guessed right on this one. Congratulations. I don’t know what else you’re expecting. The follow-ups from the Texas side are to ignore Thamel. Negotiations are continuing today. Reports indicate that FOX is the hold-up. I'm sure hope springs eternal in Austin. I mean, Texas has enough money to do it if they really want to. We shall see. For now, I'll trust Thamel. Remember, he works for ESPN, which is one of the parties with a significant interest here, and they'd prefer an early exit, all things being equal.
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Feb 3, 2023 13:24:59 GMT -5
B12 Volleyball next year - any word on the conference schedule? 13 teams - I assume they will not play a 26 game conference season. They shouldn't play 20 games - it should be 18 if they are smart. There will be some teams that will only play once. I am surprised that a deal couldn't be worked out for TX/OU to leave after 2023. I always felt that the B12 could be made 'whole'. ESPN would rather the move occur earlier than later. It was how to compensate FOX that I felt would be the major stumbling block. I didn't think about OU also being an issue. Dennis Dodd's latest on the failed attempt for OU/TX to leave (and time is running out) - and what Gonzaga might do (Yorkman wants them as a Basketball only addition to the B12). And that SDSU is an option for the B12 (I have a hard time seeing that one). www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/national-signing-day-2023-south-carolina-arizona-state-among-winners-as-pac-12-powers-miss-on-key-targets/I haven't read Dodd's article yet (I'll do that when I'm doing my cardio at the gym), but my thought on these issues in general: -I've already covered the Texas/Oklahoma early exit issue in my other comments and won't belabor them here -Gonzaga makes sense to me, as the Big 12 is the best basketball conference, and Gonzaga is a premiere basketball program. The fact that they don't play football isn't that big of a deal to me, but I understand that a lot of Big 12 fans don't want to deal with a non-football school. -I think the chances of San Diego State to the Big 12 are effectively zero by itself and only would work in conjunction with, say, Arizona. There's also the issue among some member schools/fans that it's another religious school. A small enrollment one at that. In a conference with Baylor, TCU, and now BYU, another school with a strong religious affiliation isn't some people's cup of tea. I cannot emphasize how indifferent I am to whether Gonzaga joins the Big 12 or not. But it's more than Gonzaga being a non-football school.
|
|
|
Post by stevehorn on Feb 3, 2023 13:25:35 GMT -5
The follow-ups from the Texas side are to ignore Thamel. Negotiations are continuing today. Reports indicate that FOX is the hold-up. I'm sure hope springs eternal in Austin. I mean, Texas has enough money to do it if they really want to. We shall see. For now, I'll trust Thamel. Remember, he works for ESPN, which is one of the parties with a significant interest here, and they'd prefer an early exit, all things being equal. You ever heard of intentional misinformation?
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Feb 3, 2023 13:26:10 GMT -5
I don’t know whether I’m too close or not. What I do know is that I’m wrong, and it’s disappointing to me. It happens. It’s easy to be right in hindsight. You guessed right on this one. Congratulations. I don’t know what else you’re expecting. The follow-ups from the Texas side are to ignore Thamel. Negotiations are continuing today. Reports indicate that FOX is the hold-up. Well, as we've discussed before, 2024 was always the target date. The commitment to being out by then among the folks I talk to with some influence cannot be overstated.
|
|
|
Post by knapplc on Feb 3, 2023 13:31:01 GMT -5
I don’t know whether I’m too close or not. What I do know is that I’m wrong, and it’s disappointing to me. It happens. It’s easy to be right in hindsight. You guessed right on this one. Congratulations. I don’t know what else you’re expecting. All I'm saying is this wasn't an outcome that was hard to foresee for people who weren't Texas and Oklahoma. Hindsight was not necessary. I would not have been shocked if a deal got done, as ultimately it just depended on the amount of money needed. But it was always less likely than not. Anyway, I'll move on. I genuinely expected Texas and Oklahoma to be in the SEC before 2025. I knew there would be large obstacles, and that Fox & the remaining Big XII members would have every interest in keeping those money-making programs as long as possible, but I expected enough $$$ to change hands to move this along. I don't think that's an uncommon belief. I also don't think we've seen the last of this. Things can still change.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Feb 3, 2023 13:42:44 GMT -5
I'm sure hope springs eternal in Austin. I mean, Texas has enough money to do it if they really want to. We shall see. For now, I'll trust Thamel. Remember, he works for ESPN, which is one of the parties with a significant interest here, and they'd prefer an early exit, all things being equal. You ever heard of intentional misinformation? What motive would ESPN have (Thamel certainly has sources at his own company) for "intentional misinformation"? Unless the motive is just to tell Texas and Oklahoma that ESPN isn't interested in paying an exorbitant amount, so those schools are mostly on their own. But that doesn't sound like "misinformation" to me. That just seems like the reality of the situation. If this was a reporter that worked for FOX, then I think you would have more of a point. Frankly, "intentional misinformation" seems more likely to be coming from the "insiders" on paid Texas forums than from ESPN at this point.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Feb 3, 2023 13:45:42 GMT -5
I haven't read Dodd's article yet (I'll do that when I'm doing my cardio at the gym), but my thought on these issues in general: -I've already covered the Texas/Oklahoma early exit issue in my other comments and won't belabor them here -Gonzaga makes sense to me, as the Big 12 is the best basketball conference, and Gonzaga is a premiere basketball program. The fact that they don't play football isn't that big of a deal to me, but I understand that a lot of Big 12 fans don't want to deal with a non-football school. -I think the chances of San Diego State to the Big 12 are effectively zero by itself and only would work in conjunction with, say, Arizona. There's also the issue among some member schools/fans that it's another religious school. A small enrollment one at that. In a conference with Baylor, TCU, and now BYU, another school with a strong religious affiliation isn't some people's cup of tea. I cannot emphasize how indifferent I am to whether Gonzaga joins the Big 12 or not. But it's more than Gonzaga being a non-football school. I think Gonzaga's religious affiliation is almost a non-factor for the Big 12. Notre Dame wouldn't have any problem getting an invite. I think it's mostly about football. In fact, I think geography is actually a bigger potential issue than the fact that Gonzaga is a Catholic school.
|
|
|
Post by slxpress on Feb 3, 2023 13:53:01 GMT -5
There's also the issue among some member schools/fans that it's another religious school. A small enrollment one at that. In a conference with Baylor, TCU, and now BYU, another school with a strong religious affiliation isn't some people's cup of tea. I cannot emphasize how indifferent I am to whether Gonzaga joins the Big 12 or not. But it's more than Gonzaga being a non-football school. I think Gonzaga's religious affiliation is almost a non-factor for the Big 12. Notre Dame wouldn't have any problem getting an invite. I think it's mostly about football. In fact, I think geography is actually a bigger issue that the fact that Gonzaga is a Catholic school. I'm saying it's not all about the non-football status. Including Notre Dame as an example is silly. It's an exception in all kinds of ways. It's the 800lb gorilla when it comes to conference affiliation. There's a pushback in including another religious school among all the public universities. That's the truth. It was a problem getting BYU in, which you are very well aware of. BYU was able to overcome that, mostly because of some level of desperation among Big 12 schools, and all the advantages BYU brings as a conference member in spite of its religious affiliation and commitment not to play on Sundays.
|
|
|
Post by knapplc on Feb 3, 2023 14:31:12 GMT -5
Including Notre Dame as an example is silly. It's an exception in all kinds of ways. It's the 800lb gorilla when it comes to conference affiliation. Notre Dame joining a conference is going to be like the Cubs finally winning the World Series.
|
|
bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,373
|
Post by bluepenquin on Feb 3, 2023 14:33:14 GMT -5
There's also the issue among some member schools/fans that it's another religious school. A small enrollment one at that. In a conference with Baylor, TCU, and now BYU, another school with a strong religious affiliation isn't some people's cup of tea. I cannot emphasize how indifferent I am to whether Gonzaga joins the Big 12 or not. But it's more than Gonzaga being a non-football school. I think Gonzaga's religious affiliation is almost a non-factor for the Big 12. Notre Dame wouldn't have any problem getting an invite. I think it's mostly about football. In fact, I think geography is actually a bigger potential issue than the fact that Gonzaga is a Catholic school. www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/gonzagas-candidacy-pac-12s-future-texas-and-oklahoma-exit-plans-on-deck-with-big-12-brass-set-to-meet/Here is the correct link from Dodd. Among Gonzaga's concerns with joining the B12, Big East, PAC: 1) The B12 would possibly be basketball only. That means the rest of the sports would have to find a home. If B12 allowed the other sports (not sure they would want them) - it would add considerable cost to the program Gonzaga in terms of travel. 2) If I read this correctly - Gonzaga basically gets 100% of the basketball tournament money. If they joined the B12, they would have to share. At the end of the day - Gonzaga would have to get more money out of moving than staying (obviously). And even then, they would have some concerns for the rest of the sports. As for SDSU being a possibility for the B12 - this is essentially coming from the commissioner who wants schools in the pacific time zone. I don't think the existing schools are necessarily on that same page yet. And this sounds more like exploratory thinking than actual plan.
|
|
bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016)
Posts: 12,373
|
Post by bluepenquin on Feb 3, 2023 14:42:38 GMT -5
All I'm saying is this wasn't an outcome that was hard to foresee for people who weren't Texas and Oklahoma. Hindsight was not necessary. I would not have been shocked if a deal got done, as ultimately it just depended on the amount of money needed. But it was always less likely than not. Anyway, I'll move on. I genuinely expected Texas and Oklahoma to be in the SEC before 2025. I knew there would be large obstacles, and that Fox & the remaining Big XII members would have every interest in keeping those money-making programs as long as possible, but I expected enough $$$ to change hands to move this along. I don't think that's an uncommon belief. I also don't think we've seen the last of this. Things can still change. I don't think there would be much non-financial obstacles with the existing B12 schools. As much as they aren't/weren't happy with TX/OK, I think they would rather move on w/o them than have this going on for another couple of years. I think they would 'settle' for being financially whole - and I think this could be done with ESPN and TX/OK. It is FOX that would be the major obstacle. They really don't have an incentive to cooperate even if made financially whole. The financial gap with FOX is significant - but they would also be the ones most likely to carry a grudge and have zero interest in moving on. They aren't going to want to help ESPN in any of this - in fact the opposite.
|
|