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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 7, 2022 19:07:10 GMT -5
no doubles is an awful change in my opinion -- why are we legislating skill out of our game?? Hate it... Why are we legislating style points out of our game? I mean, yeah, it does take skill and practice to learn how to set a ball with no spin, but why is that important? Who cares, except for volleyball people who have been conditioned into the idea that this is an important skill?
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Post by vollectator on Jan 7, 2022 19:18:22 GMT -5
also...only the head coach can address refs now? that seems like a very strong message. Tyler Hildebrand made a few calls
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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 7, 2022 19:49:54 GMT -5
I'm in favor of this rule chance. Double calls are way too subjective depending on who the referee is. I'm also okay if they make a point of emphasis to only call it if the ref can clearly see two distinct contacts (i.e. no making the call based on the spin that the ball has). They have had that point of emphasis explicitly in the rules for years, but refs still call them based on spin or on the basis that "something looked wonky". Just get rid of the rule. IMO, it was never intended to be what it has become anyway. The intention was just that you couldn't make two consecutive plays on the ball. They fixed this rule perversion for first contact, but they should just explicitly fix it for all contacts.
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Post by bbg95 on Jan 7, 2022 19:53:58 GMT -5
I'm in favor of this rule chance. Double calls are way too subjective depending on who the referee is. I'm also okay if they make a point of emphasis to only call it if the ref can clearly see two distinct contacts (i.e. no making the call based on the spin that the ball has). They have had that point of emphasis explicitly in the rules for years, but refs still call them based on spin or on the basis that "something looked wonky". Just get rid of the rule. IMO, it was never intended to be what it has become anyway. The intention was just that you couldn't make two consecutive plays on the ball. They fixed this rule perversion for first contact, but they should just explicitly fix it for all contacts. Yeah, I think you're probably right that they have to just get rid of the rule entirely (on sets) or there will still be refs making dubious double calls. Though they should obviously still enforce that you're not allowed to play the ball twice in a row. But those cases are really obvious.
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Post by wonkaman on Jan 7, 2022 19:55:39 GMT -5
At the younger ages kids will be more willing to use their hands. I've had many setters start to platform set the minute they are called for doubles. It is difficult to tell a player to use their hands to set when they lose a point by doing so. Perhaps they should not become setters but there is no advantage in using setters that double contact consistently.
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Jan 7, 2022 20:02:31 GMT -5
If the hitters can block it into the net, then save it by blasting it up in the air, and if the Libero can get away with a pass that went from platform to face, then the setter should be able to get away with a double.
Plus you won't have to listen to Dad bark out "double!" after every single set by the opposing team.
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Post by basil on Jan 7, 2022 20:08:52 GMT -5
If the hitters can block it into the net, then save it by blasting it up in the air, and if the Libero can get away with a pass that went from platform to face, then the setter should be able to get away with a double. Plus you won't have to listen to Dad bark out "double!" after every single set by the opposing team. this is by far the most important reason this change is good
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Post by gtrich on Jan 7, 2022 20:08:59 GMT -5
Great idea, now get rid of it in beach :-) :-) :-)
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 7, 2022 20:28:19 GMT -5
Dear lord the stuff we’re about to see middles do on setter digs lol One year, some time ago, USC's system was actually for Bateman to dig to the middles, and the middles would set the pins when she took the first ball. I don't think I've seen any team (at least of decent level) use this system recently. Isn’t that a much older strategy from the men’s side?
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 7, 2022 20:30:42 GMT -5
I enjoy volleyball for a lot of reasons but one of them is the high skill level necessary to excel at this sport. These types of changes are not good for the sport and just allows poor play to flourish. . Promote skill. Don't reward the lack of skill. HATE the no double contact rule. Set better. Simple. Reward skill. Give an objective definition of a double and how a ref can identify it? A majority of sets the fans whoop and holler at are not double contacts according to the rule book, they’re just ugly sets.
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Post by JT on Jan 7, 2022 21:11:16 GMT -5
Promote skill. Don't reward the lack of skill. HATE the no double contact rule. Set better. Simple. Reward skill. Give an objective definition of a double and how a ref can identify it? A majority of sets the fans whoop and holler at are not double contacts according to the rule book, they’re just ugly sets. 1) Any set made by a pin hitter, where the set ball has any rotation. 2) Any set made by a middle blocker. Ref can identify by checking the number on the setter’s back.
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 7, 2022 21:33:10 GMT -5
Give an objective definition of a double and how a ref can identify it? A majority of sets the fans whoop and holler at are not double contacts according to the rule book, they’re just ugly sets. 1) Any set made by a pin hitter, where the set ball has any rotation. 2) Any set made by a middle blocker. Ref can identify by checking the number on the setter’s back. That’s about it. A double is solely defined as two distinct attempts to play the ball. Almost all whistles are for aesthetics, not infractions.
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Post by clob on Jan 7, 2022 22:42:24 GMT -5
no doubles is an awful change in my opinion -- why are we legislating skill out of our game?? Hate it... Why are we legislating style points out of our game? I mean, yeah, it does take skill and practice to learn how to set a ball with no spin, but why is that important? Who cares, except for volleyball people who have been conditioned into the idea that this is an important skill?
When you think about it, I agree.
Why give style points for a set "by the rules" as long as the ultimate contact goes over the net? Isn't that the important thing?
Do Olympics judges give extra points for pristine sets?
Think about it, it's kind of a weird rule.
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Post by pelican on Jan 7, 2022 22:45:10 GMT -5
Have there been any studies with high-speed cameras of what a double and a clean set actually look like? How long is the ball touching the setter's hands? What is the difference in the total time the right hand contacts the ball vs. the left hand? How much time passes between the setter's first hand starting to touch the ball and her second hand starting to touch the ball?
And more importantly, do these tiny, tiny fractions of seconds last long enough for a human eye to actually perceive what's going on, or is the referee just going to rely on ball spin or other indirect evidence?
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Post by clob on Jan 7, 2022 22:50:21 GMT -5
And more importantly, why does it matter?
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