|
Post by oldnewbie on Dec 6, 2022 2:59:15 GMT -5
fred mcgriff voted into hall of fame by contemporary baseball era committee. Hurray for the Crime Dog! I guess the Padres finally had a season good enough to justify a hall of famer, even if it was only for 3 of his (best) years.
|
|
|
Post by nowhereman on Dec 6, 2022 23:56:44 GMT -5
Mitch Haniger leaves Seattle, signs with San Francisco.
|
|
bluepenquin
Hall of Fame
4-Time VolleyTalk Poster of the Year (2019, 2018, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk 1st Team (2021, 2020, 2019, 2018, 2017, 2016) All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team 2023
Posts: 12,944
|
Post by bluepenquin on Dec 7, 2022 10:11:01 GMT -5
fred mcgriff voted into hall of fame by contemporary baseball era committee. Hurray for the Crime Dog! I guess the Padres finally had a season good enough to justify a hall of famer, even if it was only for 3 of his (best) years. McGriff is a borderline HOF guy. I don't have a problem with him getting in. Mattingly will probably get in next year - he wasn't nearly as good as McGriff and really shouldn't be in the HOF (same for Dale Murphy). In terms of baseball - there is no reason why Curt Schilling isn't in the HOF. And then not having Bonds or Clemens is a joke. A-Rod is another - just plain stupid. It will be interesting to see what happens with Carlos Beltran. Another no doubt HOF player, but did have the Houston scandal that was blown way out of portion.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Dec 7, 2022 10:36:22 GMT -5
Hurray for the Crime Dog! I guess the Padres finally had a season good enough to justify a hall of famer, even if it was only for 3 of his (best) years. McGriff is a borderline HOF guy. I don't have a problem with him getting in. Mattingly will probably get in next year - he wasn't nearly as good as McGriff and really shouldn't be in the HOF (same for Dale Murphy). In terms of baseball - there is no reason why Curt Schilling isn't in the HOF. And then not having Bonds or Clemens is a joke. A-Rod is another - just plain stupid. It will be interesting to see what happens with Carlos Beltran. Another no doubt HOF player, but did have the Houston scandal that was blown way out of portion. Going by WAR, Murphy has a better case than Mattingly. Also, does the veterans committee vote every year? If so, Jeff Kent needs to get in or at least be seriously considered at the next vote. He's another guy that has been largely ignored by the writers mostly because they didn't like him, which is the dumbest reason to not vote for a Hall of Famer. This isn't Survivor (ironically, it seems that Kent was pretty well-liked by his Survivor castmates, most of which had no idea who he was). I don't agree with not putting the PED guys in (again, Bonds is the best player of at least the last half century even without steroids), but at least I can understand the reasoning behind it. I don't understand not voting for a player just because you don't care for their personality or things they did off the field. I'd even go so far to say that any voter who publicly states that they're voting on that basis should have their voting privileges revoked.
|
|
|
Baseball
Dec 7, 2022 10:45:39 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by XAsstCoach on Dec 7, 2022 10:45:39 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Dec 7, 2022 10:49:30 GMT -5
To be fair to A-Rod, he was an absolute monster in the playoffs during their last World Series run in 2009.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Dec 7, 2022 11:00:02 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, I looked up what Joe Posnanski (who I respect) had to say about Kent. I found a ballot from 2015, so I'm not sure if his thinking has changed since then, but he had Kent just out. I have to say that his reasoning is pretty suspect for a guy as smart as Posnanski is. He basically used the eye test to evaluate Kent's defense and ignored the metrics that show Kent to be better in that department (for a guy as metrics-focused as Posnanski, this is a red flag). Even worse, Posnanski discounts Kent's impressive power numbers (most homers ever by a second baseman, only second baseman not named Rogers Hornsby to slug .500 for his career) because he played in a power era...but it's largely believed that Kent was clean. I think that anyone who put up big power numbers in that era while clean (e.g. Ken Griffey Jr.) is even more impressive because so many others (batters and pitchers) were juiced out of their mind.
Edit: Considering that Kent was playing in San Francisco, the epicenter of the BALCO scandal, I'm pretty confident that he was clean. Oh, and also as I'm looking into it, he was a proponent of blood testing and freezing samples as far back as at least 2005. Yeah, I'm almost 100% sure that he was clean.
|
|
|
Baseball
Dec 7, 2022 11:08:18 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by oldnewbie on Dec 7, 2022 11:08:18 GMT -5
McGriff is a borderline HOF guy. I don't have a problem with him getting in. Mattingly will probably get in next year - he wasn't nearly as good as McGriff and really shouldn't be in the HOF (same for Dale Murphy). In terms of baseball - there is no reason why Curt Schilling isn't in the HOF. And then not having Bonds or Clemens is a joke. A-Rod is another - just plain stupid. It will be interesting to see what happens with Carlos Beltran. Another no doubt HOF player, but did have the Houston scandal that was blown way out of portion. So you are a pure stats guy, with no regard for the integrity of the game argument? For me, none of the blatant cheaters get in before Rose (who was banned as a player for what he did later as a manager), and really none before shoeless Joe. Bonds and Clemens were supreme, hall of fame talents who did as much to harm the game as anyone ever has. I disagree that they get a pass. I also don't think you would see them in the same light if they broke down and faded with age. Schilling is a wildly different discussion of how freely you can express yourself with no repercussions from your employer or your industry. His numbers are not good enough to overcome those that just hate him. His mouth with Clemens stats would be in. I disagree with that and would vote Schilling into the HoF long before Bonds or Clemens.
|
|
|
Baseball
Dec 7, 2022 11:11:31 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by oldnewbie on Dec 7, 2022 11:11:31 GMT -5
I'm already preparing myself to laugh in 9-10 years at all the teams paying 30+ million for broken down 39-40 year olds.
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Dec 7, 2022 11:16:57 GMT -5
McGriff is a borderline HOF guy. I don't have a problem with him getting in. Mattingly will probably get in next year - he wasn't nearly as good as McGriff and really shouldn't be in the HOF (same for Dale Murphy). In terms of baseball - there is no reason why Curt Schilling isn't in the HOF. And then not having Bonds or Clemens is a joke. A-Rod is another - just plain stupid. It will be interesting to see what happens with Carlos Beltran. Another no doubt HOF player, but did have the Houston scandal that was blown way out of portion. So you are a pure stats guy, with no regard for the integrity of the game argument? For me, none of the blatant cheaters get in before Rose (who was banned as a player for what he did later as a manager), and really none before shoeless Joe. Bonds and Clemens were supreme, hall of fame talents who did as much to harm the game as anyone ever has. I disagree that they get a pass. I also don't think you would see them in the same light if they broke down and faded with age. Schilling is a wildly different discussion of freely you can express yourself with no repercussions from your employer or your industry. His numbers are not good enough to overcome those that just hate him. His mouth with Clemens stats would be in. I disagree with that and would vote Schilling into the HoF long before Bonds or Clemens. 1. Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose should both be in, and the Hall of Fame continues to look like a joke with their absences, along with Bonds and Clemens. 2. It's widely believed that Bonds began using PEDs after the 1998 season. He already had 99.9 WAR by that point and was clearly a Hall of Famer. It appears that Clemens started using in the middle of the 1998 season, but he had 92.7 WAR by the time that season started. He was also clearly in already. And it's not like those guys were the only PED users, just the most high-profile. I discount their stats a bit for greatest of all time discussions but not for the Hall of Fame.
|
|
|
Baseball
Dec 7, 2022 11:19:20 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by XAsstCoach on Dec 7, 2022 11:19:20 GMT -5
To be fair to A-Rod, he was an absolute monster in the playoffs during their last World Series run in 2009. To which he got a generous contract extension…only to flub even more and essentially retire after another positive test 😅
|
|
|
Baseball
Dec 7, 2022 11:20:47 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by XAsstCoach on Dec 7, 2022 11:20:47 GMT -5
I'm already preparing myself to laugh in 9-10 years at all the teams paying 30+ million for broken down 39-40 year olds. I got my supply of Kleenex should that happen 😂
|
|
|
Post by bbg95 on Dec 7, 2022 11:21:00 GMT -5
To be fair to A-Rod, he was an absolute monster in the playoffs during their last World Series run in 2009. To which he got a generous contract extension…only to flub even more and essentially retire after another positive test 😅 I guess. He's still one of the best players who ever lived.
|
|
|
Post by oldnewbie on Dec 7, 2022 11:45:48 GMT -5
So you are a pure stats guy, with no regard for the integrity of the game argument? For me, none of the blatant cheaters get in before Rose (who was banned as a player for what he did later as a manager), and really none before shoeless Joe. Bonds and Clemens were supreme, hall of fame talents who did as much to harm the game as anyone ever has. I disagree that they get a pass. I also don't think you would see them in the same light if they broke down and faded with age. Schilling is a wildly different discussion of freely you can express yourself with no repercussions from your employer or your industry. His numbers are not good enough to overcome those that just hate him. His mouth with Clemens stats would be in. I disagree with that and would vote Schilling into the HoF long before Bonds or Clemens. 1. Shoeless Joe and Pete Rose should both be in, and the Hall of Fame continues to look like a joke with their absences, along with Bonds and Clemens. 2. It's widely believed that Bonds began using PEDs after the 1998 season. He already had 99.9 WAR by that point and was clearly a Hall of Famer. It appears that Clemens started using in the middle of the 1998 season, but he had 92.7 WAR by the time that season started. He was also clearly in already. And it's not like those guys were the only PED users, just the most high-profile. I discount their stats a bit for greatest of all time discussions but not for the Hall of Fame. 1. I completely agree about Jackson and Rose. Completely different than Bonds and Clemens. 2. Again, you are arguing pure stats and ignoring the fact they both thought they were bigger than the game and took actions to harm the game. I have very little sympathy for what Bonds and Clemens did. It is not simply a matter of what they did before the time you think they started blatantly cheating, it is to what point the damage they did negates what they did before. No, they weren't the only PED users. ARod, McGwire and Sosa are also not in the HoF, among others with lesser credentials.
|
|
|
Post by oldnewbie on Dec 7, 2022 11:47:18 GMT -5
To which he got a generous contract extension…only to flub even more and essentially retire after another positive test 😅 I guess. He's still one of the best players who ever lived. Maybe. On a level playing field, we will never know. What we do know is he didn't trust his talent and cheated repeatedly.
|
|