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Post by notvballdad on May 19, 2022 11:24:10 GMT -5
There's so much wisdom and knowledge on this board that I'd love to use it to pull together some different perspectives on some recruiting questions that normally don't get answered or addressed.
I have a PSA that is about to hit the start line on June 15. We have been diligent in our prior recruiting efforts and communication so we are on the radar. PSA is a starting, open level OH for an Open qualified U16 USAV Nationals club. She's just shy of 6'1 and touches 10'0 with a consistent attack contact in the 9'9ish range, in system.
We have specific, personalized, expressed interest from schools for her to attend summer camps (not just generic emails).
We do work with an outside recruiting coordinator that was a former D1 Coach but it's been 10 or so years since the actually coached.
Some of the schools that have expressed interest are strong D1 programs that are consistent Top 25 schools (which is is surreal to us and we view it as a huge honor).
Our Club Coach (who is pretty old school and direct, but does have a history of success) and our Recruiting Consultant have both told us to not bother with a couple of the camps because the PSA is too small and that would make it a real challenge.
The interest that we've received from the schools that is that the PSA is in their top tier and under evaluation for one of the scholarships available for her year.
Who do you listen to? If they convey they think your kid can be an impact player, but your coach and recruiter say "probably not" who's eval do you listen to? I want to be smart about opportunities, time and money spent going to camps, but I also don't want to pass up opportunities that could be great fits for not only volleyball growth, but great mentors and human beings that can really model and shape what being a successful adult looks like for the 50-60 years post college that my kid won't be playing volleyball.
Isn't it the college coaches job to know if a kid can make an impact or not and project their role? Doesn't their job depend on it? Or do you go with the club coach/recruiting consultant that have watched from outside even though they aren't directly in the college game and the game and approach (it's not all size anymore?) may have changed since they were in it?
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Post by eazy on May 19, 2022 11:46:43 GMT -5
I would wait until June 15th to make those plans. If she asks the coach exactly where she falls in their recruiting efforts and is happy with the answer, then go to the camp.
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Post by gtrich on May 19, 2022 11:57:42 GMT -5
Look at the current roster of the D1 schools the coach/recruiter thinks she is too small for. How tall are the starting OH's at those schools and how tall are the backup's. What year in school is the OH1/OH2/OH3. That is who your daughter will be competing against. If the current OH1/2/3's are 6'5" and they are all Sophomores, you know it's a pretty good bet that your daughter will be on the bench her first year because those players will be Seniors when your daughter comes in as a Freshman. Now look at the OH3/4/5/6. How tall are they and what year are they? If OH3/4/5/6 are Freshman and also 6'5", you have a pretty good idea that the school is a bigger is better school. If the starters are 6'5" and the current Freshman and the incoming 2022 class are in the 6' range, you may be seeing a shift at the school to smaller, faster OH's.
When all else fails, ask the coach at the school when you talk to them. Have your daughter ask, where do you see me contributing to this team as a Freshman, Sophomore ... Ask them their philosophy on bigger vs smaller and faster. They probably aren't going to say she will be a 4 year practice squad player. However, they should have an answer to those questions that makes you comfortable with the decision to spend the next 4-5 years at their school.
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Post by SayonaraTachikara on May 19, 2022 12:27:23 GMT -5
This is a great question and a very interesting topic. My answer would be to go with your gut and the momentum of the coaching interest after June 15th. I would not 100% rely on the feedback from your club but keep it in perspective. Recently, I spoke to a club director of a well known club about a specific recent commit. The conversation centered around how this individual was powerful, but had a very low VB IQ and would not see the floor her entire career on the team she commited to. I was shocked to hear this considering the hype behind this individual. She commited to a very well known B1G school.
Moral of the story, after a director or coach sees and works with an athlete for many years, they become numb to what they are watching and can sometimes limit the potential and reach of the PSA. On the flip side, they can also be correct and sometimes the athletic ability does not match the coachability or long term drive of the current athletic gifts they possess. Bottom line, if you are undersized but can terminate you had better be able to pass exceptionally well to succeed at the top levels. If you are a one dimensional 6'0 OH you may want to be honest with yourself and your PSA. I would then tell you to lean toward the advice of the club. Only you and your PSA will know the honest answer to that.
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Post by justahick on May 19, 2022 13:03:00 GMT -5
Unless the list of schools you are interested in is very small/specific, I say don't be afraid to aim high - reason being that if you overshoot and don't get any great offers from the top tier schools there will still be many schools interested who will still have availability in 4 months.
One other consideration though - if you get an offer from a top tier program, but she doesn't live up to the expectation, it can be a very tough mental place to be in, going from being a starter in club to being a non-contributor in college.
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Post by coahc21 on May 19, 2022 14:39:21 GMT -5
Not to be a pessimist, because this is an exciting time and should be exciting, so I do not want to put a damper on the experience -- butttt June 15th, you shuld get a more clear idea from the college coaches where she stands --- even though it was a personal camp invite, it's a camp invite nonetheless and your money is just as green as a girl that's 6'4"
I would budget out how many camps you can reasonable send her to -- have her take a shot at some of those big programs, but also mix in some other options -- unfortunately the world of recruiting isn't always black and white -- there is probably shades of truth from both sides - be open with communication with all schools that she could see herself at
To your point about finding a spot where she will be mentored and prepared for life beyond volleyball - press the coach on what things their programs do that are intentional about that -- everyone will say they will prepare her, but find out the specific action items
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Post by volleynerdmw on May 19, 2022 14:49:39 GMT -5
I agree with just about everything. I just caution you with roster watching. Even though the portal is not new it seems that players and coaches are using it more and more. Plus anyone who was eligible in the fall of 2020 will get an extra covid year so the amount of movement has exploded. Monster names or veteran players will change rosters on a dime. A team that looks stacked at your position might open up next winter and vice versa. Had a PSA who was headed to a team that was very thin at middle next season... now walking to a much different situation with 2 brand new grad transfers in front of her. So just keep that in mind. And while coaches tend to move around too I would really try to get to know the head coach as much as possible even though your contact with be with an assistant. Don't be afraid to ask for that extra communication from the head coach becuase if they really want you the head coach will make time. At the end of the day, you might love the assistant but they are NOT the final saying on playing time and the overall culture of the program. Don't be afraid to ask very direct questions, you will find out really quickly which staffs like to tell little half-truths. Some PSA don't want to appear aggressive but so that staff will "like" them more but trust me, coaches will not reveal some items unless asked directly.
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Post by stanfordvb on May 19, 2022 14:56:51 GMT -5
if she is over 6ft and is touching 10ft, I wouldn't be too worried about whether or not she's tall enough. both of Louisvilles OHs were 5'10 and they seemed to do just fine all year. she's right on par in terms of height and touch with OHs from top 25 schools. Once she has had real convos with coaches after June 15th you all will have a good idea on who is interested and how interested they truly are. if they seem to have real interest than she should absolutely go to the camp. its a great way to meet the coaches and players and shows the coaches that the player is interested as well.
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Post by jammaster on May 19, 2022 14:59:43 GMT -5
There's so much wisdom and knowledge on this board that I'd love to use it to pull together some different perspectives on some recruiting questions that normally don't get answered or addressed. I have a PSA that is about to hit the start line on June 15. We have been diligent in our prior recruiting efforts and communication so we are on the radar. PSA is a starting, open level OH for an Open qualified U16 USAV Nationals club. She's just shy of 6'1 and touches 10'0 with a consistent attack contact in the 9'9ish range, in system. We have specific, personalized, expressed interest from schools for her to attend summer camps (not just generic emails). We do work with an outside recruiting coordinator that was a former D1 Coach but it's been 10 or so years since the actually coached. Some of the schools that have expressed interest are strong D1 programs that are consistent Top 25 schools (which is is surreal to us and we view it as a huge honor). Our Club Coach (who is pretty old school and direct, but does have a history of success) and our Recruiting Consultant have both told us to not bother with a couple of the camps because the PSA is too small and that would make it a real challenge. The interest that we've received from the schools that is that the PSA is in their top tier and under evaluation for one of the scholarships available for her year. Who do you listen to? If they convey they think your kid can be an impact player, but your coach and recruiter say "probably not" who's eval do you listen to? I want to be smart about opportunities, time and money spent going to camps, but I also don't want to pass up opportunities that could be great fits for not only volleyball growth, but great mentors and human beings that can really model and shape what being a successful adult looks like for the 50-60 years post college that my kid won't be playing volleyball. Isn't it the college coaches job to know if a kid can make an impact or not and project their role? Doesn't their job depend on it? Or do you go with the club coach/recruiting consultant that have watched from outside even though they aren't directly in the college game and the game and approach (it's not all size anymore?) may have changed since they were in it? I don't hear any mention of the kid's interests. The process needs to start there. What does the kid want to do in college? Go after highest level of volleyball? Does she really want to start or is just being part of something big OK? Give away some athletic play level to go after academics? Make sure the kid is driving this process, not a parent. Make sure their needs come first.
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on May 19, 2022 15:25:03 GMT -5
I would think there is a considerable difference between 6-1 6 position OH and 6-1, needs to be DS on the back row. 'Too short' needs to be in the context of other skills.
Also - with the way the transfer portal works, I would think staring as a FR/SO and then transferring would always be on the table of options. Might end up loving the coaches and university so much that will want to stay all 4 years and move the needle for their program.
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Post by stanfordvb on May 19, 2022 15:30:18 GMT -5
I would think there is a considerable difference between 6-1 6 position OH and 6-1, needs to be DS on the back row. 'Too short' needs to be in the context of other skills. Also - with the way the transfer portal works, I would think staring as a FR/SO and then transferring would always be on the table of options. Might end up loving the coaches and university so much that will want to stay all 4 years and move the needle for their program. in reality, very few high schoolers come to a top 25 school and are able to play 6 as a freshman. the level of serving and attacking is so much greater than anything they're used to seeing. also, passing can be taught and improved upon. You don't truly know what your going to get out of a player until they are consistently training in a high level gym. Avery skinner, for example, played 3 rotations as a freshman at UK and then didn't see the court for the next 2 seasons until she was a senior playing all 6 and became a first team AA
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Post by lotstodo2023 on May 19, 2022 15:32:38 GMT -5
Not to be a pessimist, because this is an exciting time and should be exciting, so I do not want to put a damper on the experience -- butttt June 15th, you shuld get a more clear idea from the college coaches where she stands --- even though it was a personal camp invite, it's a camp invite nonetheless and your money is just as green as a girl that's 6'4" I would budget out how many camps you can reasonable send her to -- have her take a shot at some of those big programs, but also mix in some other options -- unfortunately the world of recruiting isn't always black and white -- there is probably shades of truth from both sides - be open with communication with all schools that she could see herself at To your point about finding a spot where she will be mentored and prepared for life beyond volleyball - press the coach on what things their programs do that are intentional about that -- everyone will say they will prepare her, but find out the specific action items I agree with this as it was our experience. Who we thought was recruiting our SA and who actually did and continued to do so after June 15th were very very different. This can be a little disheartening however its a great experience of find the fit for both parties involved. Do not be afraid to ask the questions of the coaches you talk to after June 15- we were asked to please please come to a camp that a school was having even if for 1 day. SA got there and saw 4 girls in her class from her position. When she asked the coach after where she stood she was told who was ahead of her and why. I think she learned more from that experience than anything else during recruiting. She was humbled and honored to even be in the conversation with the other recruits and had to make some tough decisions on what her expectations were going to be if she wasn't one of their top picks.
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Post by moderndaycoach on May 19, 2022 16:10:27 GMT -5
As others have said I would look at the rosters and try to play out what type of situation you might be heading in to, I would also question how much conversation the prospective schools have had with your current coach and recruiting coordinator as honestly most recruiting coordinators become numb to the talent around them or simply are not very good at their job getting kids into school - however they can also help translate some of the vernacular used in the conversation if they are good at their position for the club. I would also be weary of the outside recruiting coordinator you are working with that has been out of the game for 10 years, especially if you are paying them - but I am very anti pay for a third party as they can wind up caring more about covering their personal expenses with a canned routine than trying hard to help you find the right fit.
Open conversation with the prospective coaches and what they might be looking for by attending their camp is also a good method, but honestly if she is touching 10' without a serious weight training and plyometrics program I would feel encouraged that what she is currently touching will not be an issue as once she gets into a collegiate training program where she might find another couple inches.
The downfall of this is college coaches are also looking to fill their rosters and have players in the gym to practice against, mostly take everything with a grain of salt but if you have the time and money don't skip out on anything your PSA is interested in because there might be an outside factor away from volleyball that might make them fall for the school and being their to play volleyball will wind up being an awesome perk. The most important thing is to keep your PSA thoughts in mind and keep them in check at the same time to not have blinders solely about being excited for collegiate volleyball, especially if she is getting multiple forms of interest.
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Post by notvballdad on May 19, 2022 16:19:03 GMT -5
This is all outstanding feedback. Thanks for the balanced perspectives and thanks you all that have been through this and shared. It really helps keeping things in perspective when it's very easy to get emotional in the lead up and with so much unknown. Thank you all again for sharing.
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Post by wonkaman on May 19, 2022 18:08:43 GMT -5
I would take it one step at a time with the first step being the education. What does your daughter want to major in? If she is like many kids her age she may not have a clue but the education aspect should be the first thing you look at. What schools recruiting her offers those educational opportunities she has some interest in?
Location is always important. Is the school close enough that if she gets homesick she won't have too far to travel to get some comfort? Also, would you have to travel far to watch her play? Those may not be important now but they become important once the season starts. I know of one mom who had to travel a couple times to Hawaii to comfort her daughter because she missed being home and wanted to return.
Is she getting good vibes with the coach? Playing at the club level is a little different than playing at the college level. At the club level most coaches do not make their living coaching volleyball while at the college level that is the coach's job. Many girls find the college environment a lot stricter than the club environment and the coaches will not be as "nice". There is a lot more pressure at the college level for coaches to succeed so there will be a lot more discipline.
Weigh those scholarship offers. That is really where you find out how much the school likes you. Are they back loaded, meaning you may have to pay for the first couple years? Are they four year? I'm not really too sure if the Power Fives are required to issue four years or can they piece meal them out but that is a process that is important.
Decide what colleges interest your daughter and pay them a visit to see what they are like. The camps are always a good opportunity. Looking at the rosters to see who is where and who she will have to compete with and their class level is cool. 6'1" and touching 10 feet is good, and if she can play back row she should have enough confidence in her abilities that she can play. Rosters and lineups flesh themselves out as opportunities arise. Harper Murray did not appear to be concerned with the Nebraska roster when she made her commitment to Nebraska.
Be patient. Ask questions. Don't be overwhelmed with reputation. Don't jump at the first offer even if the school is Nebraska, Penn State or Notre Dame. Don't let the bright lights influence your decision. Flesh it all out and make the best decision for your daughter with the education at the top of the list.
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