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Post by n00b on Jun 27, 2022 21:51:55 GMT -5
Republicans want abortion banned unless the mothers life is threatened. Well, Republican voters don’t want that according to pretty much every poll out there. What do polls say they want? |
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 27, 2022 22:23:43 GMT -5
Well, Republican voters don’t want that according to pretty much every poll out there. What do polls say they want? They want women to have the right to decide what they do with their bodies. Imagine that? |
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 27, 2022 22:27:30 GMT -5
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Post by donut on Jun 27, 2022 22:41:51 GMT -5
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 28, 2022 0:49:30 GMT -5
Note that Roe itself was not a "unlimited abortion rights" decision. It specifically tied abortion rights to fetal viability, which essentially meant that abortions were limited to the first 20ish weeks.
After that time period ("late term abortions"), just about the only abortions that were legal were those that many of the conservative posters on the board are specifically defending even now -- abortions to save the life of the pregnant woman.
That means the only thing at issue here is abortions before the fetus is viable outside the womb -- abortions from the first half of the pregnancy.
Interestingly, in that poll the only category of people in that poll who are strongly opposed to Roe-style abortion rights are Republicans who are over child-bearing age.
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Post by guest2 on Jun 28, 2022 1:03:59 GMT -5
Note that Roe itself was not a "unlimited abortion rights" decision. It specifically tied abortion rights to fetal viability, which essentially meant that abortions were limited to the first 20ish weeks. After that time period ("late term abortions"), just about the only abortions that were legal were those that many of the conservative posters on the board are specifically defending even now -- abortions to save the life of the pregnant woman. That means the only thing at issue here is abortions before the fetus is viable outside the womb -- abortions from the first half of the pregnancy. Interestingly, in that poll the only category of people in that poll who are strongly opposed to Roe-style abortion rights are Republicans who are over child-bearing age. This is not correct. After the second trimester, which is where Roe defined viability, states could prohibit abortion with the exceptions you mentioned, but were not required to. Roe did not make post-viability abortions illegal. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Jun 28, 2022 2:09:12 GMT -5
Note that Roe itself was not a "unlimited abortion rights" decision. It specifically tied abortion rights to fetal viability, which essentially meant that abortions were limited to the first 20ish weeks. After that time period ("late term abortions"), just about the only abortions that were legal were those that many of the conservative posters on the board are specifically defending even now -- abortions to save the life of the pregnant woman. That means the only thing at issue here is abortions before the fetus is viable outside the womb -- abortions from the first half of the pregnancy. Interestingly, in that poll the only category of people in that poll who are strongly opposed to Roe-style abortion rights are Republicans who are over child-bearing age. This is not correct. After the second trimester, which is where Roe defined viability, states could prohibit abortion with the exceptions you mentioned, but were not required to. Roe did not make post-viability abortions illegal. States can still do that. But OK, Roe said states could not ban abortion before viability. So again, that's it. That's the entire thing we are talking about -- are states allowed to ban early (pre-viability) abortions. Anyone who wants to argue that getting rid of Roe is a good thing needs to explain why states should be allowed to ban early abortions. |
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 28, 2022 5:45:57 GMT -5
Something else to consider is how many women will die because doctors in these states will be afraid to do abortions because they're afraid of prosecution afterwards.
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Post by HOLIDAY on Jun 28, 2022 6:47:29 GMT -5
Something else to consider is how many women will die because doctors in these states will be afraid to do abortions because they're afraid of prosecution afterwards. Oh my God, Scarlett O’Hara, you do I believe have a case of the vapors. Don’t be so damn dramatic. |
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 28, 2022 6:54:11 GMT -5
Something else to consider is how many women will die because doctors in these states will be afraid to do abortions because they're afraid of prosecution afterwards. Oh my God, Scarlett O’Hara, you do I believe have a case of the vapors. Don’t be so damn dramatic. If someone has a life-threatening pregnancy and no doctor will perform an abortion because they're afraid the state will prosecute them, what should that person do? |
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Post by HOLIDAY on Jun 28, 2022 6:55:18 GMT -5
Oh my God, Scarlett O’Hara, you do I believe have a case of the vapors. Don’t be so damn dramatic. If someone has a life-threatening pregnancy and no doctor will perform an abortion because they're afraid the state will prosecute them, what should that person do? there is not going to be a single state in the entire country that is going to vote against abortion when a mother‘s life is in serious peril. |
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 28, 2022 6:56:37 GMT -5
If someone has a life-threatening pregnancy and no doctor will perform an abortion because they're afraid the state will prosecute them, what should that person do? there is not going to be a single state in the entire country that is going to vote against abortion when a mother‘s life is in serious peril. That's not what I said. |
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 28, 2022 6:57:31 GMT -5
This is not correct. After the second trimester, which is where Roe defined viability, states could prohibit abortion with the exceptions you mentioned, but were not required to. Roe did not make post-viability abortions illegal. States can still do that. But OK, Roe said states could not ban abortion before viability. So again, that's it. That's the entire thing we are talking about -- are states allowed to ban early (pre-viability) abortions. Anyone who wants to argue that getting rid of Roe is a good thing needs to explain why states should be allowed to ban early abortions. I think there is a significant % of people that doesn't like abortions done in the 5th and 6th month of pregnancy - I imagine a majority. The Mississippi law lowered this to ~ 3 months, which is consistent with most European countries and probably in line with a majority of Americans. Roe made this illegal. Roe established a floor - which I believe was too high. Essentially, Roberts wanted to lower this floor to what the Mississippi law had, but couldn't get the conservatives on board (the conservative position was the court shouldn't be making a political decision, it should be left to the legislatures). There is going to be great uneasiness over where these laws go in the short term - I suspect that eventually, most states are going to get close to where the Mississippi law had it (abortion by demand for the first trimester) - because that is where a majority of the people are. |
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Post by HOLIDAY on Jun 28, 2022 6:57:47 GMT -5
there is not going to be a single state in the entire country that is going to vote against abortion when a mother‘s life is in serious peril. That's not what I said. where is it illegal? |
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 28, 2022 6:58:45 GMT -5
There is going to be great uneasiness over where these laws go in the short term - I suspect that eventually, most states are going to get close to where the Mississippi law had it (abortion by demand for the first trimester) - because that is where a majority of the people are. OK explain the states which now have near total abortion ban since Dobbs. |
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