goopy
High School
Posts: 9 
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Post by goopy on Oct 15, 2024 7:34:35 GMT -5
As a casual fan whats with the mandatory rotations? What does it do for the game as far as making it more exciting? Rotating players is one of the great things about this sport and I think an interesting way to look at it is to spend a minute wondering what other sports would look like if they included rotating positions. Baseball - the pitcher moves to catcher, the catcher to first base, first base to second and then maybe they scramble to their normal position the second the ball leaves the pitcher's hand, etc. In football there is an extreme dependence on the QB position that impacts every play. Could you imagine a center in basketball having to move to the point guard position and bring the ball up court 20% of the time? There is a wonderful versatility with volleyball players and limiting substitutions. In hockey, everyone takes a turn at goalie. I know this probably doesn't provide a good enough answer, but maybe others could jump in with their thoughts. |
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Post by vbman100 on Oct 15, 2024 7:38:38 GMT -5
From the NCAA rulebook:
"The ball must be hit cleanly"
Hit cleanly! Hit cleanly!!!! What does "hit cleanly" mean?
Is there no better way to describe how a ball must be contacted?
It defines no prolonged contact, throw, catch, double contact. Why "hit cleanly"? That is such a nebulous term.
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Post by haterade on Oct 15, 2024 7:48:27 GMT -5
Great stuff, thanks! Question: does blocking figure into any of these? how about blocking errors? Thanks for the likes and replies, but it does not mean I am correct. I just think those are important and good indicators. Other people can certainly differ. One thing that I have never really asked or received a good answer for is the goals of stats that some coaches have. "We are looking to hit .300 in this match", or "pass 2.3 for the weekend". Well, why not 1.000 hitting? Or 3.0 passing? If you win and hit .187 or pass 1.9, was your goal correct? After your team makes 10 out of 10 perfect passes, are you going to say it's ok to flub 1 or 2 now, since we are over 2.3? Shouldn't it always be process? Move correctly on the ball deep to your left, or timing on the quick set, or reading the hitter when the set is off, or making a good shot when the set is inside... Are you asking why coaches don’t have goals of hitting 1.000? Or why they set stats based goals at all? Maybe it’s HR training, but SMART goals have been beaten into my head. Measurable, Achievable and Realistic. How else would you measure if your training and process are working? Is hitting 1.000 achievable? Technically, but so is winning each set 25-0. Neither are realistic. |
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Post by coahc21 on Oct 15, 2024 7:49:51 GMT -5
As a casual fan whats with the mandatory rotations? What does it do for the game as far as making it more exciting? Rotating players is one of the great things about this sport and I think an interesting way to look at it is to spend a minute wondering what other sports would look like if they included rotating positions. Baseball - the pitcher moves to catcher, the catcher to first base, first base to second and then maybe they scramble to their normal position the second the ball leaves the pitcher's hand, etc. In football there is an extreme dependence on the QB position that impacts every play. Could you imagine a center in basketball having to move to the point guard position and bring the ball up court 20% of the time? There is a wonderful versatility with volleyball players and limiting substitutions. In hockey, everyone takes a turn at goalie. I know this probably doesn't provide a good enough answer, but maybe others could jump in with their thoughts. I would guess that a huge benefit of it is allowing more players to be involved -- with the rotations, basically every team needs 2 OHs, 2 middles, 2 right sides (including a setter and maybe 2 of each), plus the defensive specialists....take out rotations and all of a sudden teams only need one of everything....benches get shorter and games will be won or lost based on the skill level on a smaller number of participants. A lot of young girls and boys would not be carried on rosters. |
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Post by haterade on Oct 15, 2024 7:53:32 GMT -5
Rotating players is one of the great things about this sport and I think an interesting way to look at it is to spend a minute wondering what other sports would look like if they included rotating positions. Baseball - the pitcher moves to catcher, the catcher to first base, first base to second and then maybe they scramble to their normal position the second the ball leaves the pitcher's hand, etc. In football there is an extreme dependence on the QB position that impacts every play. Could you imagine a center in basketball having to move to the point guard position and bring the ball up court 20% of the time? There is a wonderful versatility with volleyball players and limiting substitutions. In hockey, everyone takes a turn at goalie. I know this probably doesn't provide a good enough answer, but maybe others could jump in with their thoughts. I would guess that a huge benefit of it is allowing more players to be involved -- with the rotations, basically every team needs 2 OHs, 2 middles, 2 right sides (including a setter and maybe 2 of each), plus the defensive specialists....take out rotations and all of a sudden teams only need one of everything....benches get shorter and games will be won or lost based on the skill level on a smaller number of participants. A lot of young girls and boys would not be carried on rosters. A no-rotation league could also be highly entertaining for the exact specialization reason. But agree at all the lower levels skill development would crater. |
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Post by vbman100 on Oct 15, 2024 7:57:24 GMT -5
I would guess that a huge benefit of it is allowing more players to be involved -- with the rotations, basically every team needs 2 OHs, 2 middles, 2 right sides (including a setter and maybe 2 of each), plus the defensive specialists....take out rotations and all of a sudden teams only need one of everything....benches get shorter and games will be won or lost based on the skill level on a smaller number of participants. A lot of young girls and boys would not be carried on rosters. A no-rotation league could also be highly entertaining for the exact specialization reason. But agree at all the lower levels skill development would crater. It's called Beach 2s, 3s, or 4s. |
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Post by haterade on Oct 15, 2024 8:06:42 GMT -5
A no-rotation league could also be highly entertaining for the exact specialization reason. But agree at all the lower levels skill development would crater. It's called Beach 2s, 3s, or 4s. *indoor |
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Post by kiyoat on Oct 15, 2024 8:46:37 GMT -5
Oh I realize there is more than one correct answer, I just appreciate your detailed response. Really what your response highlights is how hard it is to evaluate passing and setting quality with standard reported stats. Assigning a number to the quality of a pass or assist seems very very subjective. Probably only recorded by coaching staffs or maybe recruiters? I wish there were more advanced stats that I could calculate myself using available numbers. Hitting% vs Kill% vs hitting error% is a good one to compare, so thanks for that. Do you know if assist attempts or service attempts are recorded anywhere? Receive attempts are recorded, so I can at least do the team/individual serve-receiving %. Thanks. You should see Serve attempts and Set attempts on a pdf detailed box score. huskers.com/documents/c7edb080-c19d-462c-a749-de31df8f845c.pdfSet TA is total attempts, Serve TA is total attempts. You can also see hitting % by set and sideout % by set. Yes, passing can be subjective. Some use a 3 point system, some use a 4 point system. I also forgot to mention serving stats. I use a 4 point system to rate serving. I would also look at that when evaluating a player. Great, I'm seeing a lot more info on the detailed PDF box score! Thanks for the tip. But it does look like some leagues might not publish the same amount of data on there. goyotes.com/womens-volleyball/2024/boxscore/at-north-dakota/8682/pdfNo sideout info, no Setting or Serving TA, and no Recieve TA (although I can find the receive TA on the team individual cumulative stats XML version). The data exists, of course. The digital box score contains a play-by-play... so technically I could hand-tally some stats... although I'd rather not. I wish every conference reported all the data. Frustrating. Dang it, Summit League! |
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Post by dodger on Oct 15, 2024 10:01:00 GMT -5
I would guess that a huge benefit of it is allowing more players to be involved -- with the rotations, basically every team needs 2 OHs, 2 middles, 2 right sides (including a setter and maybe 2 of each), plus the defensive specialists....take out rotations and all of a sudden teams only need one of everything....benches get shorter and games will be won or lost based on the skill level on a smaller number of participants. A lot of young girls and boys would not be carried on rosters. A no-rotation league could also be highly entertaining for the exact specialization reason. But agree at all the lower levels skill development would crater. From ‘75-‘80 there was a no rotation co-ed league called the International Volleyball Association. Wilt Chamberlin played in the league!! |
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Post by vbman100 on Oct 15, 2024 10:14:30 GMT -5
Thanks. You should see Serve attempts and Set attempts on a pdf detailed box score. huskers.com/documents/c7edb080-c19d-462c-a749-de31df8f845c.pdfSet TA is total attempts, Serve TA is total attempts. You can also see hitting % by set and sideout % by set. Yes, passing can be subjective. Some use a 3 point system, some use a 4 point system. I also forgot to mention serving stats. I use a 4 point system to rate serving. I would also look at that when evaluating a player. Great, I'm seeing a lot more info on the detailed PDF box score! Thanks for the tip. But it does look like some leagues might not publish the same amount of data on there. goyotes.com/womens-volleyball/2024/boxscore/at-north-dakota/8682/pdfNo sideout info, no Setting or Serving TA, and no Recieve TA (although I can find the receive TA on the team individual cumulative stats XML version). The data exists, of course. The digital box score contains a play-by-play... so technically I could hand-tally some stats... although I'd rather not. I wish every conference reported all the data. Frustrating. Dang it, Summit League!I am not sure why some have the detailed one available and some do not. SMU does not have it, Louisville does not have it, but some schools do and some do not. If they use Sidearm it seems that it is not listed. But I really don't know what program schools use. StatCrew was the program we used when I was involved. I have no idea how it works now. |
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Post by coachdavid on Oct 15, 2024 11:02:59 GMT -5
As a casual fan whats with the mandatory rotations? What does it do for the game as far as making it more exciting? Rotating players is one of the great things about this sport and I think an interesting way to look at it is to spend a minute wondering what other sports would look like if they included rotating positions. Baseball - the pitcher moves to catcher, the catcher to first base, first base to second and then maybe they scramble to their normal position the second the ball leaves the pitcher's hand, etc. In football there is an extreme dependence on the QB position that impacts every play. Could you imagine a center in basketball having to move to the point guard position and bring the ball up court 20% of the time? There is a wonderful versatility with volleyball players and limiting substitutions. In hockey, everyone takes a turn at goalie. I know this probably doesn't provide a good enough answer, but maybe others could jump in with their thoughts. Not rotating players would be akin to just letting your best hitter always at bat, and just putting pinch runners on whenever he gets a base hit. Might make for more home runs, but takes away the team aspect of the sport. |
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Post by WahineFan44 on Oct 15, 2024 11:06:01 GMT -5
Is it true your OH1 is usually your terminal outside and the outside 2 is your “steady” outside ball control wise etc and why is that?
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Post by uofaGRAD on Oct 15, 2024 11:19:04 GMT -5
Is it true your OH1 is usually your terminal outside and the outside 2 is your “steady” outside ball control wise etc and why is that? your OH1 spends two rotations in the front row with the setter, therefore usually getting more swings than the OH2. you want to prioritize your more terminal outside there. then usually the less terminal one plays OH2. since you’re prioritizing hitting with your OH1, a lot of times the other outside has better ball control (but not always ofc). we’ve seen a shift sometimes with teams an absolute star outside that can hit really well out of the back row, because then the thought process is you can use the backrow attack more when there’s only two attackers front row, plus if you DS your right side, you can hide the OH2 for two rotations when they’re back row to free up a clean bic. that’s what texas did last season |
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Post by uwvbfan on Oct 15, 2024 11:24:41 GMT -5
As a casual fan whats with the mandatory rotations? What does it do for the game as far as making it more exciting? At every side-out, a different set of players are front row attackers. They are now up against the same defense as the previous play. The question becomes, "Now, how does each team try to exploit the new matchups at the net?". Each rotation from a side-out brings up different strengths and weaknesses. |
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Post by eyeroll2021 on Oct 15, 2024 11:38:01 GMT -5
If it's not a fault if I touch the net outside of the antenna, can I literally stand there and shake the net?
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