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Post by slxpress on Feb 11, 2023 16:50:15 GMT -5
So are we having the Final Four in Tampa, or what?
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Post by volleyaudience on Feb 11, 2023 18:33:07 GMT -5
After a hearing about it and comments from the public, the new rule making it mandatory to answer those five questions and report the results to the state was cancelled. However, they did include a new requirement that all high school athletes have to report to the state what was their "sex assigned at birth". This is the part I think is unfortunate. Some babies are mis-identified at birth. Later exams can indicate the OB Doc got it wrong. In these cases, I'm not sure the state should be making the call to keep your "assigned at birth" designation. I was surprised to read that the number of bodies who differ at birth or develop differences later from the standard male or female definition is 1 in 100 births. (per Brown University study).
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Post by n00b on Feb 11, 2023 19:28:30 GMT -5
After a hearing about it and comments from the public, the new rule making it mandatory to answer those five questions and report the results to the state was cancelled. However, they did include a new requirement that all high school athletes have to report to the state what was their "sex assigned at birth". Assuming this is a medical form, isn’t that a very relevant question?
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 11, 2023 19:57:10 GMT -5
After a hearing about it and comments from the public, the new rule making it mandatory to answer those five questions and report the results to the state was cancelled. However, they did include a new requirement that all high school athletes have to report to the state what was their "sex assigned at birth". Assuming this is a medical form, isn’t that a very relevant question? See the (correct) answer immediately above your post.
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Post by n00b on Feb 11, 2023 20:11:26 GMT -5
Assuming this is a medical form, isn’t that a very relevant question? See the (correct) answer immediately above your post. So you don't believe a doctor should be able to look at a medical form and determine whether they should be considering ovarian or testicular cancer? Or do you have a better way to ask that question?
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 11, 2023 20:20:11 GMT -5
WTF are you even talking about? Ovarian cancer? We're talking about a form that is required for Florida high school athletes to turn in to the state, not a cancer diagnosis.
And you know what, if it were a cancer diagnosis, it would not TF matter what sex the delivering doctor wrote down on a form at birth. It would matter what organs the person actually had in their body at the time they actually had cancer. If their birth certificate said the patient was female, but the patient has testicular cancer, would the doctor say, "Sorry, I can't treat your cancer because on your birth certificate it says you should have ovaries"?
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Post by n00b on Feb 11, 2023 20:49:57 GMT -5
WTF are you even talking about? Ovarian cancer? We're talking about a form that is required for Florida high school athletes to turn in to the state, not a cancer diagnosis. And you know what, if it were a cancer diagnosis, it would not TF matter what sex the delivering doctor wrote down on a form at birth. It would matter what organs the person actually had in their body at the time they actually had cancer. If their birth certificate said the patient was female, but the patient has testicular cancer, would the doctor say, "Sorry, I can't treat your cancer because on your birth certificate it says you should have ovaries"? It's a medical form. Should the doctor be able to determine biological sex from a medical form?
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 11, 2023 21:32:55 GMT -5
Wow, I give you this, you are absolutely determined to push that square peg ("it's a medical form") through that round hole no matter how much it doesn't fit. You know what else is a medical form? When you have to fill out whether you are allergic to penicillin. But nobody in their right mind would insist that it was relevant what sex the delivering doctor assigned to you at birth on your birth certificate when they asked you whether you were allergic to penicillin. Or if they ask you when that cough started. Or if they ask you when was the last time you had an optometrist test your vision. Etc. There are many, many questions that could be asked on a medical form, and almost none of them have any dependence on whether your birth certificate has an "F" or an "M" typed onto it. And all that still ignores the point that volleyaudience already made, which is that sometimes the delivering doctors make mistakes. Or can't tell. So what was "assigned at birth" can be misleading or even outright incorrect.
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Post by slxpress on Feb 11, 2023 22:16:55 GMT -5
Wow, I give you this, you are absolutely determined to push that square peg ("it's a medical form") through that round hole no matter how much it doesn't fit. You know what else is a medical form? When you have to fill out whether you are allergic to penicillin. But nobody in their right mind would insist that it was relevant what sex the delivering doctor assigned to you at birth on your birth certificate when they asked you whether you were allergic to penicillin. Or if they ask you when that cough started. Or if they ask you when was the last time you had an optometrist test your vision. Etc. There are many, many questions that could be asked on a medical form, and almost none of them have any dependence on whether your birth certificate has an "F" or an "M" typed onto it. And all that still ignores the point that volleyaudience already made, which is that sometimes the delivering doctors make mistakes. Or can't tell. So what was "assigned at birth" can be misleading or even outright incorrect. He did say the Brown study cited it as a 1% chance, but as someone who has experienced being on the wrong side of that 1% chance, it's still extremely pertinent to the person who was subject to it.
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Post by n00b on Feb 12, 2023 11:24:09 GMT -5
Wow, I give you this, you are absolutely determined to push that square peg ("it's a medical form") through that round hole no matter how much it doesn't fit. You know what else is a medical form? When you have to fill out whether you are allergic to penicillin. But nobody in their right mind would insist that it was relevant what sex the delivering doctor assigned to you at birth on your birth certificate when they asked you whether you were allergic to penicillin. Or if they ask you when that cough started. Or if they ask you when was the last time you had an optometrist test your vision. Etc. There are many, many questions that could be asked on a medical form, and almost none of them have any dependence on whether your birth certificate has an "F" or an "M" typed onto it. And all that still ignores the point that volleyaudience already made, which is that sometimes the delivering doctors make mistakes. Or can't tell. So what was "assigned at birth" can be misleading or even outright incorrect. That’s fair, I’m totally fine with changing the wording. What’s the correct way to specify that they are asking for biological sex, not gender identity?
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 12, 2023 12:06:56 GMT -5
What’s the correct way to specify that they are asking for biological sex Define "biological sex". (Hint. That's the hard part. It's easy to make a definition that works for "most" cases. But very, very hard to make a definition that is truly definitive.)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2023 13:16:00 GMT -5
After a hearing about it and comments from the public, the new rule making it mandatory to answer those five questions and report the results to the state was cancelled. However, they did include a new requirement that all high school athletes have to report to the state what was their "sex assigned at birth". This is the part I think is unfortunate. Some babies are mis-identified at birth. Later exams can indicate the OB Doc got it wrong. In these cases, I'm not sure the state should be making the call to keep your "assigned at birth" designation. I was surprised to read that the number of bodies who differ at birth or develop differences later from the standard male or female definition is 1 in 100 births. (per Brown University study). Serious question. What differences are developed later from the standard male or female definition?
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 12, 2023 13:23:08 GMT -5
This is the part I think is unfortunate. Some babies are mis-identified at birth. Later exams can indicate the OB Doc got it wrong. In these cases, I'm not sure the state should be making the call to keep your "assigned at birth" designation. I was surprised to read that the number of bodies who differ at birth or develop differences later from the standard male or female definition is 1 in 100 births. (per Brown University study). Serious question. What differences are developed later from the standard male or female definition? Here is just one example (of many possible examples). It is a syndrome that is associated with the Dominican Republic. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Güevedoce ("penis at 12" syndrome)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2023 13:33:19 GMT -5
Serious question. What differences are developed later from the standard male or female definition? Here is just one example (of many possible examples). It is a syndrome that is associated with the Dominican Republic. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Güevedoce ("penis at 12" syndrome) Thank you! And this is the 1 out 100 chance, right? Or more prevalent than 1%?
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Post by mikegarrison on Feb 12, 2023 13:40:14 GMT -5
Thank you! And this is the 1 out 100 chance, right? Or more prevalent than 1%? No. That is much more rare worldwide than 1%. By itself. But in one particular genepool in the DR it is common enough that new parents of phenotypical girls are aware that it might happen. The 1% number quoted probably referred to all the different types of intersexuality (and there are many, because human development is very complex) lumped into one total. And of course there can also be just simple clerical mistakes. If a person is "assigned at birth to be male" because of a typo, does that somehow make them a 'biological male' for the rest of their life? I think any reasonable person would say no, although it is the kind of thing that shows up in satirical comedy a lot.
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