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Post by BeachbytheBay on Feb 2, 2023 12:16:53 GMT -5
The original poster's purpose, as I understood it, was to bemoan what's happening in vb from the point of view of a loyal fan with a favorite team. Whether the changes are good for players is a somewhat different matter. Whether the changes are good for a few mid-major teams is likewise a somewhat different matter. I feel his pain. It's odd enough to root for players who are actually total strangers but with whom one feels an affiliation because they have chosen to play for "your" team. It feels like a betrayal and it makes one wonder "why bother" when you know that many of the players have no loyalty to "your" team and are in fact checking around for greener grass and better opportunities even as they wave to the local crowds and purport to believe that there's no place better than, no fans better than . . . you know the schtick. To be clear, I'm not speaking about players who have perfectly understandable reasons for wanting out of a situation that just isn't good for them. I am talking about all those "I want to chase a natty" types or "I hoped to play for team x all along, but they wouldn't recruit me before" types. Don't I understand that the players have a right to pursue whatever situation makes them happiest? I do; I understand their motivations. I'm just saying, as did the original poster, it makes college vb more like professional baseball, to name but one sport I stopped following because I couldn't figure out why I should care about players who were short-timers just pulling down a paycheck before moving on. yes, this sums it up it's one thing to have players go in and out, and their perspective it's another HUGE challenge at a lot of schools, especially mid-majors, to create and sustain a critical mass when sustaining a critical mass following requires some level of familiarity and 'fan motivation' - yes fans do need motivation as well, and the transfer portal could result in diminish that, we shall see. Every program will be different. Many critical boosters like the fact they get to see students develop OVER 4 years and not 6 months and dissappear. A program can lose 5 boosters and a program could lose $15k-$25 a year in support if they dissappear if their joy is basically destroyed by turn-over and diminished prospects. That might not sound like much, but that's the heart-beat example of some mid-majors, and then add on building enthusiasm that sustains. what formula that works in this new era, there will be multiple ones. Just read an artical on JEff Tedford at Fresno State football, and basically said while not ignoring, but also not targeting the transfer portal (can be too volatile and tough chasing prospects), the key for their success was JUCO talent-mining. The candidates aren't as 'jaded' or stars in their eyes cause they've taken a less glorious path and a different maturity. but I digress |
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Post by gogophers on Feb 2, 2023 13:18:29 GMT -5
Personally, I agree with an earlier poster who noted that nothing seems to dent or even diminish American's love of sports. The ratings go up and the money continues to flow. College vb will do just fine, I would guess, despite the mercenary qualities that the portal, fifth year seniors, and NIL will add to the sport. The original poster was talking about his own reaction and I shared his sentiments. For some of us--we few, we unhappy few--the sport is getting worse on account of these changes. But that's us, a small minority, to be sure. For the masses, it either isn't getting worse--a lot of people like super-teams, even if cobbled together for a year like the Texas Ringers of 2022-- or, maybe it's worse in some respect, but not enough to matter.
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Post by redcard on Feb 2, 2023 13:27:14 GMT -5
yes it is, what else can one do in West Lafeyette? or Lafeyette for that matter? Tippiecanoe? XXX Been there twice. That's all I've done. XXX root beer and the Duane Purvis All-american burger. Yum! |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Feb 2, 2023 13:28:45 GMT -5
Personally, I agree with an earlier poster who noted that nothing seems to dent or even diminish American's love of sports. The ratings go up and the money continues to flow. College vb will do just fine, I would guess, despite the mercenary qualities that the portal, fifth year seniors, and NIL will add to the sport. The original poster was talking about his own reaction and I shared his sentiments. For some of us--we few, we unhappy few--the sport is getting worse on account of these changes. But that's us, a small minority, to be sure. For the masses, it either isn't getting worse--a lot of people like super-teams, even if cobbled together for a year like the Texas Ringers of 2022-- or, maybe it's worse in some respect, but not enough to matter. well, without having data, it's really hard to know what would be the data? year over year what teams are spending ( and raising) on the sport, from #1 to #333 what attendance trends are on the sport, from #1 to #333 some decent quantitivave metric on transfer trends and is talent really going from lower teams to higher teams in aggregate. need some way of rating talent! correlation with W-L with above, etc. schollie funding for D1 now, will anybody really assimilate all taht data...to really have meaningful data? probably not. typically data gets used from parties to push a particular narrative otherise, it's conjecture. one key piece of data would be if BCS teams are in general actually getting better than mid-majors? say (just would be an example) if average Massey for BCS was 59 in 2017, and now 54 in 2022, and Mid-majors was 178 in 2017, and now 185 in 2022 and there is a clear trend. that's all a lot of data, good project for some ambitious student, lol for VB in general, there's been youth participation, pretty good data, a 'leading indicator' one would think |
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Feb 2, 2023 13:56:24 GMT -5
I use to love college athletics. I’d drive to watch MVC, Big 12, and Big Ten league competition all the time. Mid-majors could compete with the now “power 5” teams. You could watch the players grow and develop at their respective schools. They learned how to deal with the ups and downs, dealt with “adversity”. Now, the NCAA reminds me of Major League Baseball. Nobody cares anymore. Players float from team to team. At least MLB has a salary cap. College athletics has none. The rich get richer. I’m sure some fans feel satisfaction when transfers - who developed elsewhere - ride in and take their team to a good season. I’ll respect the school who doesn’t send players packing to open the door for a portal star. Signed, crying in my beer. The evidence is that the Covid year and portal has increased parity in the sport. Has anyone been noticing MBB top 25 this year? |
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Post by PostPrime on Feb 2, 2023 14:03:43 GMT -5
I use to love college athletics. I’d drive to watch MVC, Big 12, and Big Ten league competition all the time. Mid-majors could compete with the now “power 5” teams. You could watch the players grow and develop at their respective schools. They learned how to deal with the ups and downs, dealt with “adversity”. Now, the NCAA reminds me of Major League Baseball. Nobody cares anymore. Players float from team to team. At least MLB has a salary cap. College athletics has none. The rich get richer. I’m sure some fans feel satisfaction when transfers - who developed elsewhere - ride in and take their team to a good season. I’ll respect the school who doesn’t send players packing to open the door for a portal star. Signed, crying in my beer. Totally agreed. The current “non-system” is not sustainable or what most people want, imo. The new HAAP rule giving players money if the stay at their school and graduate is a great model. You leave and you lose the money. Every school is capped at $5980 a year. So it’s fair. No one can give above that. Many P5’s have instituted this new program this Spring. |
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Post by vbnerd on Feb 2, 2023 14:22:27 GMT -5
I use to love college athletics. I’d drive to watch MVC, Big 12, and Big Ten league competition all the time. Mid-majors could compete with the now “power 5” teams. You could watch the players grow and develop at their respective schools. They learned how to deal with the ups and downs, dealt with “adversity”. Now, the NCAA reminds me of Major League Baseball. Nobody cares anymore. Players float from team to team. At least MLB has a salary cap. College athletics has none. The rich get richer. I’m sure some fans feel satisfaction when transfers - who developed elsewhere - ride in and take their team to a good season. I’ll respect the school who doesn’t send players packing to open the door for a portal star. Signed, crying in my beer. The evidence is that the Covid year and portal has increased parity in the sport. Has anyone been noticing MBB top 25 this year? Oh right, it's February. Basketball season starts to count soon. |
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Post by gogophers on Feb 2, 2023 15:18:25 GMT -5
Personally, I agree with an earlier poster who noted that nothing seems to dent or even diminish American's love of sports. The ratings go up and the money continues to flow. College vb will do just fine, I would guess, despite the mercenary qualities that the portal, fifth year seniors, and NIL will add to the sport. The original poster was talking about his own reaction and I shared his sentiments. For some of us--we few, we unhappy few--the sport is getting worse on account of these changes. But that's us, a small minority, to be sure. For the masses, it either isn't getting worse--a lot of people like super-teams, even if cobbled together for a year like the Texas Ringers of 2022-- or, maybe it's worse in some respect, but not enough to matter. well, without having data, it's really hard to know what would be the data? year over year what teams are spending ( and raising) on the sport, from #1 to #333 what attendance trends are on the sport, from #1 to #333 some decent quantitivave metric on transfer trends and is talent really going from lower teams to higher teams in aggregate. need some way of rating talent! correlation with W-L with above, etc. schollie funding for D1 now, will anybody really assimilate all taht data...to really have meaningful data? probably not. typically data gets used from parties to push a particular narrative otherise, it's conjecture. one key piece of data would be if BCS teams are in general actually getting better than mid-majors? say (just would be an example) if average Massey for BCS was 59 in 2017, and now 54 in 2022, and Mid-majors was 178 in 2017, and now 185 in 2022 and there is a clear trend. that's all a lot of data, good project for some ambitious student, lol for VB in general, there's been youth participation, pretty good data, a 'leading indicator' one would think I don't know what sort of data you think is out there and even if there is data out there, there are also multiple variables that would make causation due to factor A as opposed to factor B conjectural. But that's not really my concern. My concern is about what it's like to feel attachment to a particular team and, by extension, its players. It's always a little sad when the season ends, but this year that sadness was accompanied with a new emotion: dread, as I, along with other fans, waited for the other shoe or shoes to fall, waiting for the players to end their game of musical chairs, with the song being played the old Clash number, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" Yes, there is also the flip side, the excitement of new stars falling from the sky onto the fertile fields of Minnesota. I like the old way, where teams were more or less stable, better. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Feb 2, 2023 15:25:26 GMT -5
well, without having data, it's really hard to know what would be the data? year over year what teams are spending ( and raising) on the sport, from #1 to #333 what attendance trends are on the sport, from #1 to #333 some decent quantitivave metric on transfer trends and is talent really going from lower teams to higher teams in aggregate. need some way of rating talent! correlation with W-L with above, etc. schollie funding for D1 now, will anybody really assimilate all taht data...to really have meaningful data? probably not. typically data gets used from parties to push a particular narrative otherise, it's conjecture. one key piece of data would be if BCS teams are in general actually getting better than mid-majors? say (just would be an example) if average Massey for BCS was 59 in 2017, and now 54 in 2022, and Mid-majors was 178 in 2017, and now 185 in 2022 and there is a clear trend. that's all a lot of data, good project for some ambitious student, lol for VB in general, there's been youth participation, pretty good data, a 'leading indicator' one would think I don't know what sort of data you think is out there and even if there is data out there, there are also multiple variables that would make causation due to factor A as opposed to factor B conjectural. But that's not really my concern. My concern is about what it's like to feel attachment to a particular team and, by extension, its players. It's always a little sad when the season ends, but this year that sadness was accompanied with a new emotion: dread, as I, along with other fans, waited for the other shoe or shoes to fall, waiting for the players to end their game of musical chairs, with the song being played the old Clash number, "Should I Stay or Should I Go?" Yes, there is also the flip side, the excitement of new stars falling from the sky onto the fertile fields of Minnesota. I like the old way, where teams were more or less stable, better. it stands to reason where you lose the connections, you will lose support and enthusiasm.....unless a program can manufacturer enthusiasm I just bring up data, because that's the only way to make a case of the effects |
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Post by gogophers on Feb 2, 2023 15:35:36 GMT -5
I'm guessing, but my guess is what fans care about most is winning. If you win it, they will come. If because of defections (or any other reason) a team's fortunes spiral downwards, expect attendance to fall accordingly.
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Post by kurtndiego on Feb 3, 2023 17:38:16 GMT -5
I can remember in a not-so-distant past where Briana Holman had to sit out a whole entire year for her transfer from LSU to Nebraska. I guess COVID just changed all that?
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Post by VTK on Feb 3, 2023 18:02:50 GMT -5
Yes. The NCAA “freezes” time spent on a religious mission or service type mission ( ie peace corps). Some may argue, is two years away with no training really an advantage? I’d say it depends on the athlete, and where they go. Two years in San Diego vs two years in Haiti for example. Guys, mature later, so it may be an advantage. My nephew leaves for his mission soon, and he’s maybe 130 pounds. He’s going to the Philipines, so he may come back even lighter!FWIW, IMO, the transfer stuff is getting a little out of control. I’m not sure what the answer is, however. nah, all the filipino aunties will feed him and fatten him up ... (and then boldly tell him to his face that he's getting fat) ... haha! Ain’t this the truth 😂 |
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Post by Montour Meteor on Feb 4, 2023 15:15:22 GMT -5
I'm guessing, but my guess is what fans care about most is winning. If you win it, they will come. If because of defections (or any other reason) a team's fortunes spiral downwards, expect attendance to fall accordingly. Some fans - maybe young fans, but the crowd I go to watch Iowa, Iowa State, Illinois State, Norther Iowa, etc., love to see players develop and grow at our program(s). I get no thrill out of seeing transfers ride in on an Uber and help any team win (see Wisconsin). |
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Post by staticb on Feb 4, 2023 15:26:11 GMT -5
I can remember in a not-so-distant past where Briana Holman had to sit out a whole entire year for her transfer from LSU to Nebraska. I guess COVID just changed all that? No, if the school won't release you, you have to sit a year. Obviously for a grad transfer, the student has graduated and is free to go. For most undergrads, I'd say 99% of the time the athlete is released without problems, it's generally only an issue if it's a bitter split and/or the coaches suspect tampering. The portal actually probably reduces tampering charges because it's all out in the open instead of the way it used to be. |
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money
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Post by money on Feb 5, 2023 5:30:17 GMT -5
I can remember in a not-so-distant past where Briana Holman had to sit out a whole entire year for her transfer from LSU to Nebraska. I guess COVID just changed all that? No, if the school won't release you, you have to sit a year. Obviously for a grad transfer, the student has graduated and is free to go. For most undergrads, I'd say 99% of the time the athlete is released without problems, it's generally only an issue if it's a bitter split and/or the coaches suspect tampering. The portal actually probably reduces tampering charges because it's all out in the open instead of the way it used to be. Schools no longer “release” players. Every student is granted a 1-time transfer without penalty. Grad students can transfer without any penalty or restrictions. Technically a player should have to sit a year if they transfer as an undergrad a second time, but there are NCAA appeals. Portal does make it more open, but a school can no longer restrict a student athlete. That’s precisely why you see players going to play for conference rivals with regularity. |
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