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Post by PostPrime on Feb 8, 2023 22:55:09 GMT -5
This is the biggest problem with the coaching profession. This is why like referees, coaches will be few and far between in the next 20 years. There are victims, there are bad apples. But if you aren’t willing to attach your name to what you are saying….. send something anonymously…. It’s a crock of crap if you ask me. Stand up for what’s right. Speak your truth. But EVERYONE deserves the right to also defend themselves against allegations. No one can defend themselves against ghosts and pho articles with 0 citation of sources. No one can determine their validity, value, or real intentions. There is ALWAYS 2 sides to a story. Though I have no horse in this race and I have no opinion on the topic…. I have a strong opinion of a trash article meant to destroy someone’s reputation where people are hiding behind anonymous BS and unwilling to stand by what they are saying. Completely agree. Coach somewhere for 23 years and that’s a lot of players that were benched or didn’t get playing time or had a mean word said to them. Is the coach at fault? Likely to a degree but most of what’s listed here happens on many teams over time. |
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Post by jayj79 on Feb 8, 2023 23:22:16 GMT -5
No one can defend themselves against ghosts and pho articlesarticles about Vietnamese soup? |
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Post by lesmizuno on Feb 8, 2023 23:23:45 GMT -5
Even if this happens to 1 student athlete and that was their experience. It’s not ok. How do you explain it to the parents of the athletes that their kid was abused? After going to admin and not getting any support or assistance. These instances probably need to be investigated but clearly never were [according to the article].
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Post by winesalot on Feb 8, 2023 23:33:53 GMT -5
I know a former Butler player. That's not accurate...someone I know knows a former Butler player, but I'm pretty sure she is one of the players who spoke out. Even if you are a starter, this kind of behavior is gonna mess you up. I'm of the mindset that it's an abusive relationship if you find it difficult to trust people after its dissolution.
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Post by zenstudent on Feb 8, 2023 23:42:56 GMT -5
This is the biggest problem with the coaching profession. This is why like referees, coaches will be few and far between in the next 20 years. There are victims, there are bad apples. But if you aren’t willing to attach your name to what you are saying….. send something anonymously…. It’s a crock of crap if you ask me. Stand up for what’s right. Speak your truth. But EVERYONE deserves the right to also defend themselves against allegations. No one can defend themselves against ghosts and pho articles with 0 citation of sources. No one can determine their validity, value, or real intentions. There is ALWAYS 2 sides to a story. Though I have no horse in this race and I have no opinion on the topic…. I have a strong opinion of a trash article meant to destroy someone’s reputation where people are hiding behind anonymous BS and unwilling to stand by what they are saying. I have a friend who spoke up on a situation. It ended his coaching career. There's a reason whistleblowers are permitted anonymity and that's because people doing the hiring are going to know what happened and won't want troublemakers on their staff or anyone who has a record of rocking the boat. You want to be a head coach, you shut the hell up. |
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Post by bigjohn043 on Feb 8, 2023 23:48:18 GMT -5
Even if this happens to 1 student athlete and that was their experience. It’s not ok. How do you explain it to the parents of the athletes that their kid was abused? After going to admin and not getting any support or assistance. These instances probably need to be investigated but clearly never were [according to the article]. I guess the question is exactly what was the "abuse". If you are going to use that term you better have a lot more than what was in this article.... |
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Post by lotstodo2023 on Feb 9, 2023 8:44:10 GMT -5
I read the whole article and I don't really understand what this is about. The coach told some players that if they wanted to improve and get more playing time they should lose weight. Did they want the coach to lie to them? Coaches tell players of both genders all of the time that they could improve if they lost or gained weight. This is just silly. This isn't about their appearance but about what it will take to make them successful as athletes. Apparently different players were treated differently. Many coaches believe in very few team rules so that you can treat players as individuals and do the right thing when mistakes are made. The best coaches treat players individually because different players need different things. Phil Jackson treated Jordan differently than Rodman differently than other players. That is just the way the world works sometimes. And often perceptions of unfairness or special treatment lack a lot of context. Grow up. I guess there was some confusion about who travels to away games? Sounds abusive to me. Players are shocked that during their recruiting trip the coaches put their best foot forward? And then they went to the AD who wouldn't fire the coach due to abuse? FWIW, the numbers transferring suggest something was wrong here. Not saying it wasn't time to find a new coach. But these wacky claims of abuse suggest that one of the big problems was the athletes that were recruited. I have no idea what was going on, but FWIW, I don’t think this is a particularly well-written article in painting a coherent picture. I agree with this. Knowing someone who was involved in Butler volleyball I felt like people held back a lot in that article and a lot of it was "implied". It was confusing however she is gone and that is the most important thing. I remember a former assistant approaching my friends daughter after she left Butler and that assistant just said " I am sorry". There was a lot going on there but I think the article is showing the lite version of it to keep it safe. |
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Post by n00b on Feb 9, 2023 9:22:43 GMT -5
Even if this happens to 1 student athlete and that was their experience. It’s not ok. How do you explain it to the parents of the athletes that their kid was abused? After going to admin and not getting any support or assistance. These instances probably need to be investigated but clearly never were [according to the article]. I guess the question is exactly what was the "abuse". If you are going to use that term you better have a lot more than what was in this article.... I agree. I don’t think there was “abuse” in the Butler volleyball program. Seems like a coach who didn’t care much about the well-being of her athletes. But that’s not “abuse”. |
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Post by coahc21 on Feb 9, 2023 9:39:11 GMT -5
This is the biggest problem with the coaching profession. This is why like referees, coaches will be few and far between in the next 20 years. There are victims, there are bad apples. But if you aren’t willing to attach your name to what you are saying….. send something anonymously…. It’s a crock of crap if you ask me. Stand up for what’s right. Speak your truth. But EVERYONE deserves the right to also defend themselves against allegations. No one can defend themselves against ghosts and pho articles with 0 citation of sources. No one can determine their validity, value, or real intentions. There is ALWAYS 2 sides to a story. Though I have no horse in this race and I have no opinion on the topic…. I have a strong opinion of a trash article meant to destroy someone’s reputation where people are hiding behind anonymous BS and unwilling to stand by what they are saying. I think there's a big difference between complaining anonymously and wanting to be anonymous in a national article -- I have no idea if these athletes spoke up to administration anonymously, but my guess is they just opted not to be named in this article -- far different from throwing out accusations with complete anonymity To your point - this generation of athlete is different, the transfer portal makes things different and give them the ability to view the grass as greener -- I don't think that gives coaches a pass to not evolve with their athletes and understand their needs and adjust their style and philosophies -- who are the coaches there for? Themselves or the athletes? If the latter, it's pretty clear to me that they should be being their best selves to serve the athletes, rather than resting upon "the way it's always been" and expect the athletes to live up to that standard... Funny to me that you liken this to referees, because I feel the same way about them -- the ones that are getting fed up are often the ones that are not evolving with the game and getting upset when they call hands the same way they did in the 80s and 90s and are now getting crucified for it Times change - good coaches will change with it and serve their athletes -- sure there are some "bad apple" athletes, but I would guess, that open communication, transparency and respect will defend yourself against that and not give them ammunition -- never meet with an athlete alone, be honest with them, and let them be heard -- little things go a long way |
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Post by coahc21 on Feb 9, 2023 9:43:28 GMT -5
I guess the question is exactly what was the "abuse". If you are going to use that term you better have a lot more than what was in this article.... I agree. I don’t think there was “abuse” in the Butler volleyball program. Seems like a coach who didn’t care much about the well-being of her athletes. But that’s not “abuse”. If a parent is not caring for the well-being of their children, that is abuse isn't it? Yes, they are adult aged girls -- but still need to be cared for and as a coach that spenda that much time with them and has that much power of them, to me, caring for them is a necessity and negligence could absolutley be considered abuse |
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Post by n00b on Feb 9, 2023 9:49:25 GMT -5
I agree. I don’t think there was “abuse” in the Butler volleyball program. Seems like a coach who didn’t care much about the well-being of her athletes. But that’s not “abuse”. If a parent is not caring for the well-being of their children, that is abuse isn't it? Yes, they are adult aged girls -- but still need to be cared for and as a coach that spenda that much time with them and has that much power of them, to me, caring for them is a necessity and negligence could absolutley be considered abuse Child abuse is different. If a parent doesn't feed their 1-year-old, it's abuse. I hope coaches aren't literally spoon-feeding their athletes. In this context, abuse would mean something like intentionally causing distress, intimidation or harassment. And it would be grounds to fire her for cause. I just don't see that here. |
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Post by stevehorn on Feb 9, 2023 10:21:54 GMT -5
I agree. I don’t think there was “abuse” in the Butler volleyball program. Seems like a coach who didn’t care much about the well-being of her athletes. But that’s not “abuse”. If a parent is not caring for the well-being of their children, that is abuse isn't it? Yes, they are adult aged girls -- but still need to be cared for and as a coach that spenda that much time with them and has that much power of them, to me, caring for them is a necessity and negligence could absolutley be considered abuse That's a very poor analogy. |
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Post by coahc21 on Feb 9, 2023 10:27:28 GMT -5
If a parent is not caring for the well-being of their children, that is abuse isn't it? Yes, they are adult aged girls -- but still need to be cared for and as a coach that spenda that much time with them and has that much power of them, to me, caring for them is a necessity and negligence could absolutley be considered abuse Child abuse is different. If a parent doesn't feed their 1-year-old, it's abuse. I hope coaches aren't literally spoon-feeding their athletes. In this context, abuse would mean something like intentionally causing distress, intimidation or harassment. And it would be grounds to fire her for cause. I just don't see that here. Yes certainly not the extreme of child neglect and maybe the term "abuse" is harsh -- but to me, simply absence of something heinous is way too low of a bar to which we hold our coaches |
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Post by AmeriCanvbdad on Feb 9, 2023 10:29:32 GMT -5
First it was the WVU players TikToks,
I'm sorry everyone, but I hadn't heard about this.
Would someone be willing to message me privately about this please?
I don't want to derail this thread.
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Post by vbnerd on Feb 9, 2023 10:50:08 GMT -5
The coach told some players that if they wanted to improve and get more playing time they should lose weight. Did they want the coach to lie to them? Coaches tell players of both genders all of the time that they could improve if they lost or gained weight. This is just silly. This isn't about their appearance but about what it will take to make them successful as athletes. As strange as it seems, you can swear, and lie and play favorites, but suggesting a player is overweight is harassment and mental abuse, end of story. Coaches can and have been fired for cause for this alone. You can tell them they need to jump higher, you can tell them they need to improve foot speed and reaction time, and you can suggest if they eat more vegetables they might have more energy to survive the extra conditioning intended to improve their foot speed and reaction time. You can call Mom and Dad and tell them to cancel her Uber eats account, and apparently in Seattle you can attempt to make the team walk home from the airport and still keep your job. But under NO circumstances can you ever, EVER suggest a female athlete lose weight. Maybe you know this kid will be ok with it, and maybe you know your admin will be ok with it, and yeah, it still happens, but suggesting a player cut weight is playing Russian Roulette with your job. |
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