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Post by volleyballer8992 on Mar 7, 2023 14:45:41 GMT -5
Please let it be known that officiating is an unappealing gig, usually not well paid, and like many other jobs, hard to find quality individuals (whether it be R1 or an R2 who doesn't get paid typically). IMO, getting paid, even if it was decent, isn't enough to be complained at by parents of 13 year olds competing in a lower-deemed division for 8 hours a day. Just be happy to have people to work the courts so your daughter can keep getting opportunities to play and compete with friends. By the time she's 16, pray she's not burnt out already. Sorry... if I sound rude, just my unnecessary opinion. "Lower deemed division" is a bit condescending, no? 112 teams played in RRR Liberty 15s and only 2 got bids. 15 American was like 140 to get one bid. Everyone is on their own journey. Everyone deserves good officiating. Sure, but the more divisions you continue to create means you need to have more people interested in officiating, and sorry but the best officials will get placed with the more competitive divisions. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Mar 7, 2023 14:58:00 GMT -5
First of all, let me say the grammar leaves a lot to be desired.
Secondly, it sounds like this R1 was inexperienced, which is not at all uncommon in lower levels of USAV club tournaments. As for having an adult as the R2...I have been an official, and I prefer the kids!! It is the discretion of the tourney, if an adult is mandated to be the R2; the kids R2 99% of their tourneys, and then they throw adults in there for the most important matches? Having an adult pay attention to the net instead of watching the ball, or knowing rotations, or even the proper hand signals is rare.
If you have been an R1 for even 1 club season, you know you are basically doing the job by yourself, and hopefully you can see everything. I was ecstatic when I had good line judges and an R2 who actually transitioned and knew the proper hand signals.
All that to say, it really really sucks if the officiating caused you to lose; BUT sometimes that happens. I know that this tournament was very hard-up for officials, they were offering payment for flights to and from, hotel stays for the whole week between weekends, per diem, etc. If you are in the Liberty Division, you probably aren't getting a certified R2, and even if you are, they may not be that experienced anyway.
There is always Regionals to earn that bid, or perhaps you are going to another qualifier. Good luck!
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Post by coachdavid on Mar 7, 2023 15:00:02 GMT -5
I coach on the boys' side and every USAV bid tournament requires an adult coach to be the R2. Is this not the case for girls? I'm very surprised to hear an athlete was doing this in a bid situation. That is true on the girls side as well. Its for exactly this situation, an adult is less likely to get flustered or allow another adult to treat them improperly as it sounds like the coach was doing in this scenerio. Unfortunately there isn't much that can be done after the match ends. They're not going to replay the game. They're not going to just hand you a bid (you might still get one as a trickle down or region's at large bid). The protest has to happen before the next point. If your teams setter is 5 foot tall and cant cross the plane of the net I don’t think this matters all that much anyway. You were probably playing for Gravel lol Don't be an ass. The game replay on baller: www.ballertv.com/streams/peak-va-14-blue-vs-scvc-14roxy-20230306222501-rzrwrn32At an hour in someone clearly goes "you son of a bitch" but I don't know if that was coach or fan or where it was directed too, but they clearly didn't know there was a hot mike available. Also 2 coaches on the right ran onto the court after call they didn't like to yell at the ref. I'd be really tempted to DQ them both if I was the R1 there. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Mar 7, 2023 15:11:33 GMT -5
Asst coaches are not allowed to argue calls, only the head coach. Should have been an immediate yellow.
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Post by dizzydean on Mar 7, 2023 15:13:22 GMT -5
Our club traveling from North Texas was in the 14U Liberty division at the Red Rock Rave. I have never been more embarrassed or ashamed on how the semi games were handled. In Liberty, the winner of both Semi games get a bid so it’s a big deal. We are in year 3 of our club and built from scratch so this was our clubs biggest match so far ever!! The officiating was at its worse than I have ever seen and iv been a coach for 12 years but up reffing is going to be bad at times so that’s expected. The team that was down reffing had a 16 year old girl who was not part of the team doing their R2. So this is where it gets extremely frustrating and upsetting. She had no idea what was going on or how to down ref. She didn’t know what rotations each team was in and stood behind the poll where she could not see anything and was being bullied by the opposing team SCCVA head coach. In the 3rd set, our team sided out after 10-10 with an incredible kill which would make it 11-10 and the other coach started yelling at the 16 year old girl that we was out of rotation. She had no idea, so she ran across the court to the up ref and told him we was out of rotation and they changed the call to the other team. The coach protested it and had the main people come over, the up ref and the 16 year who is not on the teams who is reffing roster could not tell the coach where they was out of Rotation so they reversed the call so our team got the ball back and it was 11-10 like it should have been. This was a 15 min delay And a momentum killer. The next play, we served and the opposing team wrapped her arm around the net on her kill attempt and the up ref called it which should make it 12-10 our team. The other teams coach was yelling at the 16 year old that we was in the net which she had no idea, again ran over to the up ref told him we was in the net and he reversed the call. Up ref said its her call to Make. The coach tried to protest but they refused to let that happen so we are back to 11-11 So we go on, the NEXT play, a long rally, the setter who is 5ft 1 on our team, the ball was tight and she stood on the ground and pushed it over with one hand which is legal, she can’t even get above the plane of the net anyway if she did even jump but that’s beside the point, the play continued for about 30 more seconds and we win the point and we are going back to serve. The other coach again is screaming at the girl said our setter is back row and can’t do that, again she didn’t know what she was talking about, ran to the up ref again. Said our setter was back row and was above the plane and considered her a back row attack and he reversed the call once again!!! Making it 12-11 their team. Our team wound up losing 16-14 in the 3rd set and not getting our bid. That is a 3 point swing in the 3rd set only to 15 in the latter part. I don’t mind losing but when you take the game out of the players hands and a coach bully’s a girl who shouldn’t even be down reffing into making 3 calls back to back to back in the favor and it’s over ruled in their favor is absolutely insane. The girls all started crying of course because we lost our chance at earning a National bid when they knew we earned it. Our team went to the championship desk to make a complaint and appeal. Apparently in Red rock they don’t require the r2 to sign the sheet so why even have a r2. In North texas, we always have to sign including at Lonestar. We asked what protocol or handbook do you guys have that covers these scenarios. They said they don’t have one. No one was on the same page. All 3 big officials over everyone told us all 3 different things we should have done which contradicted each other. The head official told us we should have refused to play, requested new officials, etc. When we talked to another big wig of officials, said that we couldn’t do that. We also asked them why was there not main official reffing that game, their response was it wasnt a main game and when I responded, the winner gets a bid to nationals, how is that not a big game, they looked at us and said oh yeah, you’re right, we will add officials for those games this upcoming weekend. Smh So these people are not on the same page at all, not only are they not on the same page but every main big official agreed with us that they was in the wrong and apologized for how it was handled. Instead of telling us what we need to do to appeal, they tried to give so many excuses that they was short on refs and this and that. That’s not any teams fault at all. It really sucks that a coach of the other team SCCVA was able to bully a 16 year old girl who was not on coaching staff or player, an allowed to make calls in a bid match that affected the out come. The head main official pulled the coach aside after already meeting with them and told them they need to email USA volleyball and we have a case and could go ahead and get an at large bid but has to be approved by them. Just extremely disappointed and frustrated with how this tournament was ran. Just curious if anyone has ever had anything like this happen before and who to contact and what are the steps. Thanks for listening. TLDR: you got hosed by bad reffing and coaches complaining. Yeah, that'll happen. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Mar 7, 2023 15:15:29 GMT -5
So, on the out of rotation call...why the heck did the LJ run over to the R1? What did she tell him? Were the coaches in her ear, telling her something? If so, I would have given him another yellow...you don't talk to the LJ's. Whether she was correct or not is not the point.
As for the back row attack...from the video, it doesn't even look like she touched it. BUT, even if she did, it was not a fault
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Post by coachdavid on Mar 7, 2023 15:25:32 GMT -5
So, on the out of rotation call...why the heck did the LJ run over to the R1? What did she tell him? Were the coaches in her ear, telling her something? If so, I would have given him another yellow...you don't talk to the LJ's. I was wondering that too. After the call was made the coach on the right steps onto the court in the front zone to explain the 'overlap' which could have been another card. |
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Post by Winbabywin on Mar 7, 2023 15:47:50 GMT -5
You played a 3-set match that involved 112 points, 112 opportunities for you to win. The replay on the net call, worked in your favor, and unless I watch the entire set and chart who was where on the out of rotation call, I don't know what happened on that call. So, you potentially got hosed on 1 call (in the 3rd set at least), out of 112.
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Post by jammaster on Mar 7, 2023 16:02:13 GMT -5
Everyone deserves good officiating. ALL of the matches at ALL of the events deserve good officiating, but there aren't enough officials to do it all. The OP is pointing out that the R2 wasn't an adult, wasn't a coach. The team that is scheduled to ref owes the other teams a competent R2. |
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2023 16:03:56 GMT -5
ALL of the matches at ALL of the events deserve good officiating, but there aren't enough officials to do it all. The OP is pointing out that the R2 wasn't an adult, wasn't a coach. The team that is scheduled to ref owes the other teams a competent R2. From the video, that R2 looks like she could easily be college aged. Which is perfectly normal for a 14s assistant coach. |
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2023 16:08:11 GMT -5
BUT, even if she did, it was not a fault I disagree. The ball landed square on the top of the net. By the rules of physics, that means the ball was entirely above the height of the net. That being said, two coaches were in the sub zone simultaneously yelling at the ref. They should've received at least a yellow card, and probably a red card. |
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Post by jammaster on Mar 7, 2023 16:11:17 GMT -5
The OP is pointing out that the R2 wasn't an adult, wasn't a coach. The team that is scheduled to ref owes the other teams a competent R2. From the video, that R2 looks like she could easily be college aged. Which is perfectly normal for a 14s assistant coach. Agree, but I think OP is saying she was 16. I have a kid who is 17, an assistant coach, and college committed 2023, but she doesn't do R2, the head coach does. She usually works with her players on the books. I was at RRR and the R1s were fine. We were in Liberty and there were a few missed calls, but nothing major. I didn't hear any chatter that the officiating was bad. The biggest officiating issue was players not paying attention...as always. |
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Post by eazy on Mar 7, 2023 16:12:26 GMT -5
The OP is pointing out that the R2 wasn't an adult, wasn't a coach. The team that is scheduled to ref owes the other teams a competent R2. From the video, that R2 looks like she could easily be college aged. Which is perfectly normal for a 14s assistant coach. From a follow up post.. Strange situation for anyone on the roster to be in the stands instead of the bench. |
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Post by n00b on Mar 7, 2023 16:29:26 GMT -5
From the video, that R2 looks like she could easily be college aged. Which is perfectly normal for a 14s assistant coach. From a follow up post.. Strange situation for anyone on the roster to be in the stands instead of the bench. True. But I was curious and the work team does have a rostered assistant coach who is a freshman in college. |
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Post by stevehorn on Mar 7, 2023 16:53:46 GMT -5
From a follow up post.. Strange situation for anyone on the roster to be in the stands instead of the bench. True. But I was curious and the work team does have a rostered assistant coach who is a freshman in college. Often teams will add an additional adult or two to the qualifier roster for "just in case" purposes. |
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