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Post by akbar on Jul 11, 2023 16:46:24 GMT -5
So maybe the stand on the 10 ft line pass everything with our hands CRAP that is so prevalent in junior and college in the USA really doesn't work in the much more physical bomb jump and hybrid serving of the international game. Just a guess. Very very rarely do I see any on the senior teams use hands.....cuz it doesn't translate Just for those that don't know, the u21 worlds championships as well as u19 have made it illegal to open hand serve receive, similar to the beach game. This may be another reason the passing has been so poor. Which supports my point. 🎯
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Post by myhouse911 on Jul 11, 2023 23:03:19 GMT -5
This is a stupid take. The game at the highest level is played with the platform. You can’t take jump top spin serves with success with your hands, you need to develop your platform. Our juniors are being hindered by the over reliance on overhand passing, not helped. Plus the elimination of the bad hands passing will convert more bad jump top spin servers to manageable float serves that makes the game much more palatable to viewers. It’s a very sensical change that will improve both the quality and skill of the game and attractiveness to watch. I really don't know why I am bothering responding, but I'll bite. For the game to be more attractive to the audience, the FIVB knows it needs more rallies - specifically in the men's game. That's why they proposed changes literally a decade ago, which would seemingly allow for lengthening the points i.e Servers must land in front of the end line, back row attackers landing in front of the attack line, etc, but those two were tried, and clearly, didn't stick. If the overhand passing of a serve is not clean, then call it a double. Don't punish receivers by completely taking away a learned skillset because some opponents have a poor topspin serve and have to resort to the oh-so pathetic float serve. Completely removing an option to receive a serve in a quality and attractive way, by your logic, is stupid.
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Post by wilbur on Jul 12, 2023 14:41:52 GMT -5
This is a stupid take. The game at the highest level is played with the platform. You can’t take jump top spin serves with success with your hands, you need to develop your platform. Our juniors are being hindered by the over reliance on overhand passing, not helped. Plus the elimination of the bad hands passing will convert more bad jump top spin servers to manageable float serves that makes the game much more palatable to viewers. It’s a very sensical change that will improve both the quality and skill of the game and attractiveness to watch. I really don't know why I am bothering responding, but I'll bite. For the game to be more attractive to the audience, the FIVB knows it needs more rallies - specifically in the men's game. That's why they proposed changes literally a decade ago, which would seemingly allow for lengthening the points i.e Servers must land in front of the end line, back row attackers landing in front of the attack line, etc, but those two were tried, and clearly, didn't stick. If the overhand passing of a serve is not clean, then call it a double. Don't punish receivers by completely taking away a learned skillset because some opponents have a poor topspin serve and have to resort to the oh-so pathetic float serve. Completely removing an option to receive a serve in a quality and attractive way, by your logic, is stupid. You guys are missing the point, the fact players at the top level don't take balls with hand frequently or players are mangling first contact is not the issue or where the solution is. The goal is less missed serves. It will take a year for players to figure out a serve that takes advantage of the no over hand reception rule, if they can find a serve that takes teams out of systwm and is more reliable than current serves than it will stick and achieve what the FIVB is going for. If they can't, then on to something else.
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Post by myhouse911 on Jul 12, 2023 17:24:43 GMT -5
I really don't know why I am bothering responding, but I'll bite. For the game to be more attractive to the audience, the FIVB knows it needs more rallies - specifically in the men's game. That's why they proposed changes literally a decade ago, which would seemingly allow for lengthening the points i.e Servers must land in front of the end line, back row attackers landing in front of the attack line, etc, but those two were tried, and clearly, didn't stick. If the overhand passing of a serve is not clean, then call it a double. Don't punish receivers by completely taking away a learned skillset because some opponents have a poor topspin serve and have to resort to the oh-so pathetic float serve. Completely removing an option to receive a serve in a quality and attractive way, by your logic, is stupid. You guys are missing the point, the fact players at the top level don't take balls with hand frequently or players are mangling first contact is not the issue or where the solution is. The goal is less missed serves. It will take a year for players to figure out a serve that takes advantage of the no over hand reception rule, if they can find a serve that takes teams out of system and is more reliable than current serves than it will stick and achieve what the FIVB is going for. If they can't, then on to something else. Well according to FIVB, their goal is to have more continuous play. So, yes, while that does mean more serves in play, that's not the only way to enable longer or more "exciting" rallies. And that should not be at the expense of good service reception. What's next, no overhand digging or passing free balls? I get that those are extreme, but at some point the onus needs to be put on serving, not the reception of serves. Anyway, this is off-topic, and my bad for that. I'm sure the US will be travelling to Poland very soon, so looking forward to the IG stories to see who is there before the roster is officially released.
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Post by wilbur on Jul 12, 2023 17:55:26 GMT -5
You guys are missing the point, the fact players at the top level don't take balls with hand frequently or players are mangling first contact is not the issue or where the solution is. The goal is less missed serves. It will take a year for players to figure out a serve that takes advantage of the no over hand reception rule, if they can find a serve that takes teams out of system and is more reliable than current serves than it will stick and achieve what the FIVB is going for. If they can't, then on to something else. Well according to FIVB, their goal is to have more continuous play. So, yes, while that does mean more serves in play, that's not the only way to enable longer or more "exciting" rallies. And that should not be at the expense of good service reception. What's next, no overhand digging or passing free balls? I get that those are extreme, but at some point the onus needs to be put on serving, not the reception of serves. Anyway, this is off-topic, and my bad for that. I'm sure the US will be travelling to Poland very soon, so looking forward to the IG stories to see who is there before the roster is officially released. there is currently plenty of "not good serve reception", it happens mostly after a high pressure jump serve hits the court. They are trying to give another option to create this with less missed serves because everyone agrees, missed serves are boring and no one wants to see a missed serve. "more continuous play" IMO is just FIVB talk for less missed serves Good serve reception is exactly what leads to "less continuous play" since it typically results in a kill right after a good serve reception, and to prevent good serve reception, teams serve harder and miss.
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Post by myhouse911 on Jul 12, 2023 18:52:33 GMT -5
Well according to FIVB, their goal is to have more continuous play. So, yes, while that does mean more serves in play, that's not the only way to enable longer or more "exciting" rallies. And that should not be at the expense of good service reception. What's next, no overhand digging or passing free balls? I get that those are extreme, but at some point the onus needs to be put on serving, not the reception of serves. Anyway, this is off-topic, and my bad for that. I'm sure the US will be travelling to Poland very soon, so looking forward to the IG stories to see who is there before the roster is officially released. there is currently plenty of "not good serve reception", it happens mostly after a high pressure jump serve hits the court. They are trying to give another option to create this with less missed serves because everyone agrees, missed serves are boring and no one wants to see a missed serve. "more continuous play" IMO is just FIVB talk for less missed serves Good serve reception is exactly what leads to "less continuous play" since it typically results in a kill right after a good serve reception, and to prevent good serve reception, teams serve harder and miss. They want quality and continuous play. And based off of their own trial rules, it was not just missed serves they were going for or they would not have tested the back row attack rule change at the same time. Now, how it can be manufactured to have quality and continuous is up to the higher-ups. Not everyone wants to see pass set kill from FBSO either, because it is also boring to the casual fan, and sometimes, the actual fan. That's why we tend to see highlights from the women's game (NCAA) making top plays lists, people want to see wild rallies, and we tend to get that in the women's game more often because of the lack of termination in comparison to the men's. If you want to serve tougher, then that is the risk you take. Maybe we move the attack line back 5 feet. Then the volleyball court is legit half front court, half back court. This would likely upset the bic lovers, but maybe it's necessary. However, unlike overhand receptions, it is not removing anything from their learned and developed skills. I just think removing the usage of a practiced skill, is moving the game backwards, and causing more confusion to the casuals. It's already hard enough to explain to people how the game even works - like, I had to explain to someone (who is not even a casual fan, just aware that the sport exists) why they even have to rotate and cant just stay in one spot the whole time. I get that sports need to grow, but at what expense. Do we really need casual fans to grow the game, sure, a bit, but the ideas to shorten sets, create random rules of when you can and can't do something, etc. is not the answer. Sometimes the K.I.S.S method is just fine and dandy.
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Post by passionfruit on Jul 12, 2023 23:44:37 GMT -5
there is currently plenty of "not good serve reception", it happens mostly after a high pressure jump serve hits the court. They are trying to give another option to create this with less missed serves because everyone agrees, missed serves are boring and no one wants to see a missed serve. "more continuous play" IMO is just FIVB talk for less missed serves Good serve reception is exactly what leads to "less continuous play" since it typically results in a kill right after a good serve reception, and to prevent good serve reception, teams serve harder and miss. They want quality and continuous play. And based off of their own trial rules, it was not just missed serves they were going for or they would not have tested the back row attack rule change at the same time. Now, how it can be manufactured to have quality and continuous is up to the higher-ups. Not everyone wants to see pass set kill from FBSO either, because it is also boring to the casual fan, and sometimes, the actual fan. That's why we tend to see highlights from the women's game (NCAA) making top plays lists, people want to see wild rallies, and we tend to get that in the women's game more often because of the lack of termination in comparison to the men's. If you want to serve tougher, then that is the risk you take. Maybe we move the attack line back 5 feet. Then the volleyball court is legit half front court, half back court. This would likely upset the bic lovers, but maybe it's necessary. However, unlike overhand receptions, it is not removing anything from their learned and developed skills. I just think removing the usage of a practiced skill, is moving the game backwards, and causing more confusion to the casuals. It's already hard enough to explain to people how the game even works - like, I had to explain to someone (who is not even a casual fan, just aware that the sport exists) why they even have to rotate and cant just stay in one spot the whole time. I get that sports need to grow, but at what expense. Do we really need casual fans to grow the game, sure, a bit, but the ideas to shorten sets, create random rules of when you can and can't do something, etc. is not the answer. Sometimes the K.I.S.S method is just fine and dandy. The concept of the game has not changed, the players playing it have. They’re much, much taller and more physical (including the women’s side). Why not raise the height of the net 5-8 inches? I know it won’t contribute much to the “continuous play” but players will have the reach higher and make it harder to bounce the ball.
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Post by Spike Town on Jul 13, 2023 16:18:52 GMT -5
This is a stupid take. The game at the highest level is played with the platform. You can’t take jump top spin serves with success with your hands, you need to develop your platform. Our juniors are being hindered by the over reliance on overhand passing, not helped. Plus the elimination of the bad hands passing will convert more bad jump top spin servers to manageable float serves that makes the game much more palatable to viewers. It’s a very sensical change that will improve both the quality and skill of the game and attractiveness to watch. I disagree. I also disagree with. "stupid take". USA men and women are the best in the world and their players grow up with handpassing. Do you want to win at major International competitions or at junior? That is quality to me. The skill 'issue' is coaches and the strategies they employ. US men are a perfect example. They have clearly evolved to a team who manages their serve more often and doesn't just grip and rip. If as a coach you know the other team will miss 7 serves per set you match plan accordingly. Lastly, we want want to develop more jump servers. Not the other way around. On the women's side, sign me up for Rettke's floater. And as for making the game watchable, the sport is massive worldwide. If there were pro leagues in North America no one would be looking to change the rules. The game is awesome as is. Don't change the rules .... add mens scholarships in the NCAA, market the athletes better, show the baseline camera most often, and get Netflix to make a tv show
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Post by Spike Town on Jul 13, 2023 20:41:04 GMT -5
USA men and women are the best in the world and their players grow up with handpassing. USA Men are best in the world? At what? The men have finished top 3 at Worlds once and the Olympics twice in this century. Nowhere near the storied programs of Brazil, Russia, Italy, and Poland. Solidly a top 8 program, not a top tier. Humble apologies, amongst the best. Crisis averted. Only ranked #3 in the world, what a sh$& show.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2023 12:44:03 GMT -5
Anyone have a prediction for the make up of the 14 who make the finals roster?
Christenson, Smith, Shoji, Russell, Jaeshcke, Defalco, Holt and Anderson are locks.
One would assume Jendryk and Averill would also be on that roster.
Who is 2nd Oppo, Setter and libero?
Does Speraw only bring E. Shoji? I think he does.
I assume the team will be traveling soon so hopefully the roster gets posted in the coming days.
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Post by manyshaped on Jul 14, 2023 13:11:17 GMT -5
i think ma'a is going over tuaniga hanes would probably go over ensing def one libero. i don't think dagostino brings anything extra that shoji isn't, and i'm sure we could use an extra middle/oh instead of two libs
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Post by nevball17 on Jul 14, 2023 13:39:01 GMT -5
Anyone have a prediction for the make up of the 14 who make the finals roster? Christenson, Smith, Shoji, Russell, Jaeshcke, Defalco, Holt and Anderson are locks. One would assume Jendryk and Averill would also be on that roster. Who is 2nd Oppo, Setter and libero? Does Speraw only bring E. Shoji? I think he does. I assume the team will be traveling soon so hopefully the roster gets posted in the coming days. Anderson just posted on IG that he’s head off to Gdańsk so I’m sure we will see in the coming days who is with the team
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Post by 808 State on Jul 14, 2023 13:45:19 GMT -5
Add Hanes and Ma'a. No additional liberso so bring in both Jendryk and Averill.
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Post by wilbur on Jul 14, 2023 18:17:18 GMT -5
I like Speraw and this team responds to him so I try to think he doesn't do the UCLA player thing. I will say this when TJ was tired he wanted to put a good defensive player in for him which was GM to give him a small break. Tuaniga and Ma ran a fast offense IMO compared to Micah because Ma was able to get his hitters in better positions and away from the triple block, which Micah couldn't do. The key aspect outside of front row liability is who out of the two can come and make an impact. I would take Jake over Kyle because his foot work has improved but also hits a harder ball. Jake has a more effective serve, is a more impactful blocker and has been a better attacker this VNL. Kyle is better in defense. Both are improving over teh last 2 years but I think Jake has a higher ceiling. Jake would also be the better serving sub and blocking sub. Garrett gets a lot of hate here because he isn't as much fun to watch and is not as dynamic a VB player as others but if they need a stable experienced OH sub, he is the best option. If they think Cody still has ceiling to be a starter, maybe take him but he is only 3 years younger than Garrett so if he can't help us now, there is not much reason to invest PT for the future. From what I have seen this VNL, I think Ma's has earned the 2nd setter position for the next year if they want to look toward the future, not because Josh played poorly, but because Ma'a showed he can play at this level already and his ceiling is high. Josh would do a great job as the back up setter but I don't think he can lead this team to medals.
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Post by akbar on Jul 14, 2023 19:08:31 GMT -5
Jake has a more effective serve, is a more impactful blocker and has been a better attacker this VNL. Kyle is better in defense. Both are improving over teh last 2 years but I think Jake has a higher ceiling. Jake would also be the better serving sub and blocking sub. Garrett gets a lot of hate here because he isn't as much fun to watch and is not as dynamic a VB player as others but if they need a stable experienced OH sub, he is the best option. If they think Cody still has ceiling to be a starter, maybe take him but he is only 3 years younger than Garrett so if he can't help us now, there is not much reason to invest PT for the future. From what I have seen this VNL, I think Ma's has earned the 2nd setter position for the next year if they want to look toward the future, not because Josh played poorly, but because Ma'a showed he can play at this level already and his ceiling is high. Josh would do a great job as the back up setter but I don't think he can lead this team to medals. I agree with what you are saying except Tuniga has the leadership skills to lead on the court IMO over Ma that is one of the reasons Anderson was put in for Kyle (outside the fact he kept getting blocked), I like both of them because they run a faster offense IMO over Micah, I still can't get over the fact that he could not help the outsides over the 3 man block but Ma could Um the USA men's offense is one of if not the most complicated and fast offenses in the world. Does it really need to be faster?.....especially if you cant sustain connections between Ma'a and Josh as it is? Mentioning those two at this point in their career in the same class as Micah is silly. Christenson is the best and most complete setter in the world. (Imo)
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