|
|
Post by maigrey on Nov 18, 2024 0:31:45 GMT -5
It’s basically the same as hitting percentage. (Aces - Serve Errors) / Serve Attempts It definitely removes a lot of non-server influence, by taking out anything good (or bad) in points-scored that comes from who’s up front (and who’s digging for that matter), but I wonder if it removes too much? A good serve that can’t be passed well, or one that removes opponent hitting options due to placement, should be counted in more than the denominator. Maybe you need to have (serve attempts - errors - GP)/Serve attempts, where GP is the number of good passes from GP%. It doesn't account for all removal of options due to placement, but eliminates the non-server influence that SO% inherently has. I don't have VM, so couldn't calculate this, myself. |
|
|
|
Post by VT Karen on Nov 18, 2024 1:16:28 GMT -5
I got to watch the Michigan match on YouTube and I am very happy with the bounce back by the Gophers. I hope they stick with the Alex/Wookie combo (granted that Wookie can stay healthy). Alex's serving was so good and it was apparent that she was trying to take care of her touches in the back row.
Julia.....my goodness is she crushing it! She's starting to make it look easy.
|
|
|
|
Post by mcmike on Nov 18, 2024 1:27:48 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by volleysota on Nov 18, 2024 2:42:11 GMT -5
It definitely removes a lot of non-server influence, by taking out anything good (or bad) in points-scored that comes from who’s up front (and who’s digging for that matter), but I wonder if it removes too much? A good serve that can’t be passed well, or one that removes opponent hitting options due to placement, should be counted in more than the denominator. Maybe you need to have (serve attempts - errors - GP)/Serve attempts, where GP is the number of good passes from GP%. It doesn't account for all removal of options due to placement, but eliminates the non-server influence that SO% inherently has. I don't have VM, so couldn't calculate this, myself. It’s possible to do, but I wouldn’t know if it’s done by most schools. Instead of tracking serves as an ace/error deal, they can be graded similar to passing, where 3 is an ace and 0 is an error. I know it’s doable on iStat, but I haven’t used datavolley so I’m not sure if that’s trackable on there. |
|
|
|
Post by pckeys on Nov 18, 2024 6:42:24 GMT -5
Wasn’t able to engage in the match thread since I was watching this on my phone and the Vikings on TV. Sundays are tough. Anyways, Hanson is HER. Acevedo has 10000% earned her spot playing 3 rotations. Wucherer looks more solid focusing on the front row. Mcghie = permanent serving sub. Even though Schnichels only got in for a couple of points, I’m speculating that maybe she is moving up the depth chart ahead of Crowl? And finally, thank you Keegan for finally seeing what all the fans were. And yes, I know Michigan is slumping, but they still are a decent team with good servers, and they handled it well. I think only a pair of aces??? We were at the match yesterday and our new nickname for Alex is ACEvedo! She served 34 times in that match and had only 1 SE to go along with her 7 aces. What a find for our coaching staff! She absolutely deserves to play the back 3 rotations. Seemed like Alex was always taking on the serve when Michigan’s big jump server was up, and she handled it well. I don’t think Wookie is 100% healthy. IMO Keegan should sit her the rest of the Big 10 season to get therapy for whatever it is that she’s struggling with and let Acevedo take her place all around the court. That would get Alex more reps to improve on her hitting chops, and McKenna hopefully would be in better shape to make an impact in the tournament. |
|
|
|
Post by braceminn on Nov 18, 2024 7:30:38 GMT -5
Wasn’t able to engage in the match thread since I was watching this on my phone and the Vikings on TV. Sundays are tough. Anyways, Hanson is HER. Acevedo has 10000% earned her spot playing 3 rotations. Wucherer looks more solid focusing on the front row. Mcghie = permanent serving sub. Even though Schnichels only got in for a couple of points, I’m speculating that maybe she is moving up the depth chart ahead of Crowl? And finally, thank you Keegan for finally seeing what all the fans were. And yes, I know Michigan is slumping, but they still are a decent team with good servers, and they handled it well. I think only a pair of aces??? We were at the match yesterday and our new nickname for Alex is ACEvedo! She served 34 times in that match and had only 1 SE to go along with her 7 aces. What a find for our coaching staff! She absolutely deserves to play the back 3 rotations. Seemed like Alex was always taking on the serve when Michigan’s big jump server was up, and she handled it well. I don’t think Wookie is 100% healthy. IMO Keegan should sit her the rest of the Big 10 season to get therapy for whatever it is that she’s struggling with and let Acevedo take her place all around the court. That would get Alex more reps to improve on her hitting chops, and McKenna hopefully would be in better shape to make an impact in the tournament. We all agree with you, but our coaching stuff will put crippled Wucherer in if she’s wearing a jersey. I can’t imagine making a kid play after not dressing down for the biggest game vs Nebraska Maybe girls backs heal quicker than ours, who knows |
|
|
|
Post by letsbeclear on Nov 18, 2024 8:29:34 GMT -5
Serving Stats after today's match: | Player | ATT | Pts Won | Pts Lost | Pct | Ace | SE | K | HE | Blk | Opp K | Opp E |
|---|
| Chloe Ng | 27 | 18 | 9 | .667 | 3 | 4 | 8 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 6 | | Alex Acevedo | 321 | 199 | 162 | .620 | 29 | 18 | 87 | 22 | 38 | 122 | 46 | | Lydia Grote | 318 | 153 | 165 | .481 | 27 | 37 | 80 | 28 | 20 | 100 | 26 | | Elise McGhie | 205 | 94 | 111 | .459 | 12 | 8 | 33 | 17 | 20 | 86 | 29 | | Melani Shaffmaster | 358 | 163 | 195 | .455 | 21 | 32 | 70 | 21 | 38 | 141 | 34 | | Julia Hanson | 318 | 142 | 176 | .447 | 26 | 38 | 64 | 30 | 21 | 109 | 30 | | Zeynep Palabiyik | 347 | 150 | 197 | .432 | 12 | 26 | 70 | 26 | 36 | 147 | 29 | | Skylar Gray | 67 | 28 | 39 | .418 | 8 | 12 | 8 | 2 | 4 | 27 | 6 | | Mckenna Wucherer | 49 | 20 | 29 | .408 | 5 | 16 | 7 | 0 | 1 | 13 | 8 | | Kate Thibault | 25 | 10 | 15 | .400 | 0 | 6 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 9 | 3 | | Lauren Crowl | 85 | 28 | 57 | .329 | 5 | 7 | 11 | 6 | 4 | 44 | 7 | | Calissa Minatee | 22 | 6 | 16 | .273 | 1 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 8 | 3 | | TOTALS | 2,142 | 1,011 | 1,171 | .472 | 149 | 210 | 442 | 156 | 186 | 811 | 227 |
I'll add another one on for you, for those curious - Serving percentage (Efficiency). It's basically hitting percentage but for serving. | Player | Serves | S% | | Alex Acevedo | 321 | .0343 | | Elise McGhie | 205 | .0195 | | Lauren Crowl | 85 | -.0235 | | Melani Shaffmaster | 358 | -.0307
| | Lydia Grote | 318 | -.0314 | | Chloe Ng | 27 | -.0370 | | Julia Hanson | 318 | -.0377 | | Zeynep Palabiyik | 347 | -.0403 | | Skylar Gray | 67 | -.0597 | | McKenna Wucherer | 49 | -.2245 | | Calissa Minatee | 22 | -.2272 | | Kate Thibault | 25 | -.2400 |
Take whatever conclusions you'd like from these numbers. The obvious takeaways are that the bottom three basically have a 1/5 chance of serving into the net or out... Also that 1 in every 30 times Alex goes back to serve it's going to be an ace. I don't think your last statement about 1 in every 30 times is true. That calculation should simply be serves/aces, which for Alex is 321/29 or 1 in every 11 serves. |
|
|
|
Post by vonner on Nov 18, 2024 9:16:30 GMT -5
att ptwin pt loss pct
Julia Hanson 318 142 176 .447 9 1 8 superhuman at net, not good behind the line I'll forgive any shortcomings of Julia serving due to her overall dominance at the pin. |
|
|
|
Post by pavsec5row10 on Nov 18, 2024 10:50:39 GMT -5
I think Ideally we'd have a stat that grades the impact of the serve on scoring a point. Did the serve put the opponent out of system or "force" an error, overpass, trap set into a block, etc. Then we'd need to adjust by quality of opponent passers, since clearly it's probably easier to put a team like Michigan OOS, than a team like Nebraska. This seems to be the approach of Evollve's "vs. an average team" metrics. All I have to work with is the primitive post-match play-by-play, which typically does not show each volley in a point. Some schools seem to be moving to this, so maybe I could refine the categories to include "first ball" actions, rather than "whole point" actions, if there is a better source. |
|
|
|
Post by gopherhim on Nov 18, 2024 11:06:45 GMT -5
Serving Stats after today's match: | Player | ATT | Pts Won | Pts Lost | Pct | Ace | SE | K | HE | Blk | Opp K | Opp E |
|---|
| Chloe Ng | 27 | 18 | 9 | .667 | 3 | 4 | 8 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 6 | | Alex Acevedo | 321 | 199 | 162 | .620 | 29 | 18 | 87 | 22 | 38 | 122 | 46 | | Lydia Grote | 318 | 153 | 165 | .481 | 27 | 37 | 80 | 28 | 20 | 100 | 26 | | Elise McGhie | 205 | 94 | 111 | .459 | 12 | 8 | 33 | 17 | 20 | 86 | 29 | | Melani Shaffmaster | 358 | 163 | 195 | .455 | 21 | 32 | 70 | 21 | 38 | 141 | 34 | | Julia Hanson | 318 | 142 | 176 | .447 | 26 | 38 | 64 | 30 | 21 | 109 | 30 | | Zeynep Palabiyik | 347 | 150 | 197 | .432 | 12 | 26 | 70 | 26 | 36 | 147 | 29 | | Skylar Gray | 67 | 28 | 39 | .418 | 8 | 12 | 8 | 2 | 4 | 27 | 6 | | Mckenna Wucherer | 49 | 20 | 29 | .408 | 5 | 16 | 7 | 0 | 1 | 13 | 8 | | Kate Thibault | 25 | 10 | 15 | .400 | 0 | 6 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 9 | 3 | | Lauren Crowl | 85 | 28 | 57 | .329 | 5 | 7 | 11 | 6 | 4 | 44 | 7 | | Calissa Minatee | 22 | 6 | 16 | .273 | 1 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 8 | 3 | | TOTALS | 2,142 | 1,011 | 1,171 | .472 | 149 | 210 | 442 | 156 | 186 | 811 | 227 |
No idea why the discrepancy because it looks like Evollve has all of the matches included, but they have Alex at 55.2% serve points won. Either way, she's serving really darn well, as they have her at #7 in DI! Interesting how much higher it is than her expected serve win % against an "average" team (46%) since most of our opponents are well above average, I'd say. |
|
|
|
Post by pavsec5row10 on Nov 18, 2024 11:27:21 GMT -5
Serving Stats after today's match: | Player | ATT | Pts Won | Pts Lost | Pct | Ace | SE | K | HE | Blk | Opp K | Opp E |
|---|
| Chloe Ng | 27 | 18 | 9 | .667 | 3 | 4 | 8 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 6 | | Alex Acevedo | 361 | 199 | 162 | .551 | 29 | 18 | 87 | 22 | 38 | 122 | 46 | | Lydia Grote | 318 | 153 | 165 | .481 | 27 | 37 | 80 | 28 | 20 | 100 | 26 | | Elise McGhie | 205 | 94 | 111 | .459 | 12 | 8 | 33 | 17 | 20 | 86 | 29 | | Melani Shaffmaster | 358 | 163 | 195 | .455 | 21 | 32 | 70 | 21 | 38 | 141 | 34 | | Julia Hanson | 318 | 142 | 176 | .447 | 26 | 38 | 64 | 30 | 21 | 109 | 30 | | Zeynep Palabiyik | 347 | 150 | 197 | .432 | 12 | 26 | 70 | 26 | 36 | 147 | 29 | | Skylar Gray | 67 | 28 | 39 | .418 | 8 | 12 | 8 | 2 | 4 | 27 | 6 | | Mckenna Wucherer | 49 | 20 | 29 | .408 | 5 | 16 | 7 | 0 | 1 | 13 | 8 | | Kate Thibault | 25 | 10 | 15 | .400 | 0 | 6 | 3 | 1 | 3 | 9 | 3 | | Lauren Crowl | 85 | 28 | 57 | .329 | 5 | 7 | 11 | 6 | 4 | 44 | 7 | | Calissa Minatee | 22 | 6 | 16 | .273 | 1 | 6 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 8 | 3 | | TOTALS | 2,182 | 1,011 | 1,171 | .463 | 149 | 210 | 442 | 156 | 186 | 811 | 227 |
No idea why the discrepancy because it looks like Evollve has all of the matches included, but they have Alex at 55.2% serve points won. Either way, she's serving really darn well, as they have her at #7 in DI! Interesting how much higher it is than her expected serve win % against an "average" team (46%) since most of our opponents are well above average, I'd say. Thanks for checking. I knew she served really well on Sunday, but should have noticed her percent points won had climbed an unreasonable amount due to the ATT formula being missing. |
|
|
|
Post by gopherhim on Nov 18, 2024 11:39:46 GMT -5
No idea why the discrepancy because it looks like Evollve has all of the matches included, but they have Alex at 55.2% serve points won. Either way, she's serving really darn well, as they have her at #7 in DI! Interesting how much higher it is than her expected serve win % against an "average" team (46%) since most of our opponents are well above average, I'd say. Thanks for checking. I knew she served really well on Sunday, but should have noticed her percent points won had climbed an unreasonable amount due to the ATT formula being missing. No problem, we all make errors.  I thought of your serving stats when Meredith was talking about Alex's serving being the rotation we score best in. Made me wonder if she appreciates your tables too! I guess commentators that do their homework probably have access to volleymetrics and more advanced stats than box scores though. |
|
|
|
Post by mcmike on Nov 18, 2024 13:55:42 GMT -5
Lessons from the Michigan match as the underdog:
We'll be in hostile territory in two days
If we are OOS after a weak pass ceding tempo is a losing strategy
Better to take a big swing at block edges or high hands
Michigan scored well against MN when in system by not hitting into MN's block:
1. increasing set tempo to get the ball to the attacker before the block could penetrate
2. focusing on tooling the outside edge
My impression of Wookie yesterday: better dramatic attack/tip ratio because she was set further from the net and at her preferred height. When there was a seam in the MI block she seemed capable of exploiting it. That won't happen Wednesday unless you can keep Smrek & Booth guessing on set location & speed
Obviously, I'm not the coach, but I would have Hanson serve from 4' behind the service line with MORE tempo. the greater distance from reception to Fuerbringer more difficult it will be to put a back set into the 'Smrek zone' for which there is no defense.
Our best change to make it to a regional semi-final is as a 6 seed facing a 3 seed in the second match. I think the Washington loss and Oregon drubbing ended our hosting chance barring a WI upset and other potential 4 seeds (first round hosts) faltering
I'd still like to know what we were doing in set 2 15 13 55 .036
|
|
|
|
Post by comet on Nov 18, 2024 14:00:15 GMT -5
Lessons from the Michigan match as the underdog: We'll be in hostile territory in two days If we are OOS after a weak pass ceding tempo is a losing strategy Better to take a big swing at block edges or high hands Michigan scored well against MN when in system by not hitting into MN's block: 1. increasing set tempo to get the ball to the attacker before the block could penetrate 2. focusing on tooling the outside edge My impression of Wookie yesterday: better dramatic attack/tip ratio because she was set further from the net and at her preferred height. When there was a seam in the MI block she seemed capable of exploiting it. That won't happen Wednesday unless you can keep Smrek & Booth guessing on set location & speed Obviously, I'm not the coach, but I would have Hanson serve from 4' behind the service line with MORE tempo. the greater distance from reception to Fuerbringer more difficult it will be to put a back set into the 'Smrek zone' for which there is no defense. Our best change to make it to a regional semi-final is as a 6 seed facing a 3 seed in the second match. I think the Washington loss and Oregon drubbing ended our hosting chance barring a WI upset and other potential 4 seeds (first round hosts) faltering I think part of Nebraskas strategy against Wisconsin was to make Booth move to her left. It worked. Shaff has to run a diverse offense to keep their block from camping on our pins. Here's hoping our passing can hold up enough to do that. |
|
|
|
Post by pavsec5row10 on Nov 18, 2024 14:30:27 GMT -5
I'd still like to know what we were doing in set 2 15 13 55 .036 Getting blocked 7 times with 6 HE, 2 on OOS sets. |
|
I thought of your serving stats when Meredith was talking about Alex's serving being the rotation we score best in. Made me wonder if she appreciates your tables too! I guess commentators that do their homework probably have access to volleymetrics and more advanced stats than box scores though.