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Post by SportyBucky on Sept 27, 2024 10:24:47 GMT -5
Seems like a real problem but deflecting from passing woes is weak sauce....and I hate KK phrase. Kelly's passing-related comments from the article I quoted: “We had them out of system almost the entire match,” Sheffield said. “I think they passed 1.4, 1.5. When you have your opponent passing 1.4 or 1.5, you’ve got to win that match.” ...
But none of the combinations up front worked ...
“We out-passed them but we never really got our middles going and our right sides were not able to get kills out of system,” Sheffield said.
That's about MN passing woes...not WI's
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Post by badgerbreath on Sept 27, 2024 10:36:51 GMT -5
@avid 2.0 posted the passing stats on the match thread:
GG: 1.80 (67) Franklin: 1.65 (20) Orzol: 2.5 (12) Lola: 2.4 (5) 1.89 as a team
Zeynep: 2.14 (28) Thibault: 1.50 (20) Acevedo: 1.79 (17) Hanson: 1.46 (13) Wucherer: 1.21 (7) 1.75 as a team
Kelly was right about out-passing The Gophers, but GG was a lightning rod and couldn't handle it. I'm trying to imagine how the match might have played out if she passed a 2.14 like "Z"; I think I Know the answer.
oh Lola, you deserved better.
Just a few matches ago GG was passing a 2.3 with few attempts and Lola was passing under two with the most attempts as libero. Fact is, teams are finding the passer having a bad night and exploiting them. I know people want to make the answer simple here, but until two of Lola, GG or Saige show some stability in their passing match to match, sheff has the same problem. Plus we still passed well enough as a team to win that match. GG didn’t pass well and didn’t have the best night transition setting either, which is odd for her, but this incessant singling her out is not the answer to the badgers problems. There was plenty of blame to go around. About the only person I wouldn’t blame is Orzol.
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Post by swaggyp on Sept 27, 2024 10:59:57 GMT -5
oh Lola, you deserved better.
Just a few matches ago GG was passing a 2.3 with few attempts and Lola was passing under two with the most attempts as libero. Fact is, teams are finding the passer having a bad night and exploiting them. I know people want to make the answer simple here, but until two of Lola, GG or Saige show some stability in their passing match to match, sheff has the same problem. Plus we still passed well enough as a team to win that match. GG didn’t pass well and didn’t have the best night transition setting either, which is odd for her, but this incessant singling her out is not the answer to the badgers problems. There was plenty of blame to go around. About the only person I wouldn’t blame is Orzol. People like to pick on serve receive (service line errors too) for the same reason they like to pick on missed free throws in basketball. It's an individual thing and everyone is looking at just one person while they are doing it. But players don't just have one responsibility, they have to do 50 things well in order to win a volleyball match.
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Post by badgerbreath on Sept 27, 2024 11:01:21 GMT -5
Badgers will need someone to pull a Clark or a Barnes here and start nailing the passing a 3rd of the way through the B1G season. If you remember, Sheff was playing with the idea of Civita being libero instead of Barnes early on before the injuries to Gio ruled her out. Barnes just wasn't passing consistently well enough - much like the previous season.
Dodge replaced Clark in the match at Illinois once for the same reason - Clark was not passing well and in fact had a history of subpar passing to that point, maybe because of her shoulder. Dodge kind of freaked out and Clark ended up keeping the role, but the message was sent and Clark finally nailed down the passing and suddenly learned to serve about half way through the season.
Sheff is not sure who is willing to put in the time to pass well consistently at this point. He's going to give players chances at L until someone nails it or proves in the gym that they are willing to put in the work. I'm still thinking Lola is the most likely, but that's based purely on her similar personality to Clark and Barnes. I have no special knowledge.
I'm a little more concerned about Franklin's drop in passing to be honest. It's a marked change. It suggests to me that back is still a bit of a problem.
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Post by badgerbreath on Sept 27, 2024 11:06:56 GMT -5
Just a few matches ago GG was passing a 2.3 with few attempts and Lola was passing under two with the most attempts as libero. Fact is, teams are finding the passer having a bad night and exploiting them. I know people want to make the answer simple here, but until two of Lola, GG or Saige show some stability in their passing match to match, sheff has the same problem. Plus we still passed well enough as a team to win that match. GG didn’t pass well and didn’t have the best night transition setting either, which is odd for her, but this incessant singling her out is not the answer to the badgers problems. There was plenty of blame to go around. About the only person I wouldn’t blame is Orzol. People like to pick on serve receive (service line errors too) for the same reason they like to pick on missed free throws in basketball. It's an individual thing and everyone is looking at just one person while they are doing it. But players don't just have one responsibility, they have to do 50 things well in order to win a volleyball match. I mean I understand it. Finding scapegoats is also how as a fan you can deal with the pain of loss and the lack of control of the situation. But there is a point where it just goes overboard.
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Post by pull3 on Sept 27, 2024 11:22:43 GMT -5
oh Lola, you deserved better.
Just a few matches ago GG was passing a 2.3 with few attempts and Lola was passing under two with the most attempts as libero. Fact is, t eams are finding the passer having a bad night and exploiting them.
Oh don't get me wrong. I am done getting mad at GG. Someone else should be held responsible for letting opponent exploit us in the last set.
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Post by 25or624 on Sept 27, 2024 11:23:50 GMT -5
oh Lola, you deserved better.
Just a few matches ago GG was passing a 2.3 with few attempts and Lola was passing under two with the most attempts as libero. Fact is, teams are finding the passer having a bad night and exploiting them. I know people want to make the answer simple here, but until two of Lola, GG or Saige show some stability in their passing match to match, sheff has the same problem. Plus we still passed well enough as a team to win that match. GG didn’t pass well and didn’t have the best night transition setting either, which is odd for her, but this incessant singling her out is not the answer to the badgers problems. There was plenty of blame to go around. About the only person I wouldn’t blame is Orzol. I made a post yesterday to make the point that Carter and GG aren't the only trouble spots. That said, GG shouldn't get a pass when she plays like that. It's her third year in the program. She isn't consistently reliable and a "down cycle" performance like this one had to affect the rest of the team as the match wore on.
Maybe Kelly deserves some criticism. He made a big bet on GG to be "the one", but she hasn't been able to close the deal. Meanwhile, he hasn't been able to find and / or develop a reliable alternative. Saige came in injured and is way behind in her development. Lola needs and deserves more time to develop. Maile obviously isn't the answer or she would be out there. The Badgers have a libero problem. It's not a new problem and spreading the blame around doesn't change that. Fixing the libero problem is one of the answers to The Badgers' multiple problems. Maybe it can't be fixed this year.
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Post by badgerbreath on Sept 27, 2024 11:53:01 GMT -5
Just a few matches ago GG was passing a 2.3 with few attempts and Lola was passing under two with the most attempts as libero. Fact is, teams are finding the passer having a bad night and exploiting them. I know people want to make the answer simple here, but until two of Lola, GG or Saige show some stability in their passing match to match, sheff has the same problem. Plus we still passed well enough as a team to win that match. GG didn’t pass well and didn’t have the best night transition setting either, which is odd for her, but this incessant singling her out is not the answer to the badgers problems. There was plenty of blame to go around. About the only person I wouldn’t blame is Orzol. I made a post yesterday to make the point that Carter and GG aren't the only trouble spots. That said, GG shouldn't get a pass when she plays like that. It's her third year in the program. She isn't consistently reliable and a "down cycle" performance like this one had to affect the rest of the team as the match wore on.
Maybe Kelly deserves some criticism. He made a big bet on GG to be "the one", but she hasn't been able to close the deal. Meanwhile, he hasn't been able to find and / or develop a reliable alternative. Saige came in injured and is way behind in her development. Lola needs and deserves more time to develop. Maile obviously isn't the answer or she would be out there. The Badgers have a libero problem. It's not a new problem and spreading the blame around doesn't change that. Fixing the libero problem is one of the answers to The Badgers' multiple problems. Maybe it can't be fixed this year.
Who knows what his thinking was here. He may have been thinking he needed more of a BR veteran presence in the first away match against a B1G and local rival. Maybe he wanted to try to ease Lola into the B1G and into a high intensity border battle rivalry rather than throw her into the deep end. Maybe he felt changing the libero midstream might make the transition game even worse, or that losing GGs OOS setting in three rotations was a serious problem against a really good serving team like the gophers (and I want to emphasize that they have been really good every time I've watched them - nobody passes them that well). Maybe it was a final test for GG to see if she could dig out of it and claim the position. He's got to coach the team with the end of the season in mind. It's one match. A disappointing result, especially because its the neighbors, but one we could have easily won in the final set save for a series of mistakes from all over the court, as Sheff noted. I think a lot got learned. We'll see what he does going forward to correct the problems. But L is just one of the problems and not the critical one in this particular match IMO. He's found solutions in the past to the L problem with the right personnel. I think one will arise at some point this year, but other than GG this is a really inexperienced BR crew.
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Post by badgerbadgerbadger on Sept 27, 2024 15:59:43 GMT -5
I made a post yesterday to make the point that Carter and GG aren't the only trouble spots. That said, GG shouldn't get a pass when she plays like that. It's her third year in the program. She isn't consistently reliable and a "down cycle" performance like this one had to affect the rest of the team as the match wore on.
Maybe Kelly deserves some criticism. He made a big bet on GG to be "the one", but she hasn't been able to close the deal. Meanwhile, he hasn't been able to find and / or develop a reliable alternative. Saige came in injured and is way behind in her development. Lola needs and deserves more time to develop. Maile obviously isn't the answer or she would be out there. The Badgers have a libero problem. It's not a new problem and spreading the blame around doesn't change that. Fixing the libero problem is one of the answers to The Badgers' multiple problems. Maybe it can't be fixed this year.
Who knows what his thinking was here. He may have been thinking he needed more of a BR veteran presence in the first away match against a B1G and local rival. Maybe he wanted to try to ease Lola into the B1G and into a high intensity border battle rivalry rather than throw her into the deep end. Maybe he felt changing the libero midstream might make the transition game even worse, or that losing GGs OOS setting in three rotations was a serious problem against a really good serving team like the gophers (and I want to emphasize that they have been really good every time I've watched them - nobody passes them that well). Maybe it was a final test for GG to see if she could dig out of it and claim the position. He's got to coach the team with the end of the season in mind. It's one match. A disappointing result, especially because its the neighbors, but one we could have easily won in the final set save for a series of mistakes from all over the court, as Sheff noted. I think a lot got learned. We'll see what he does going forward to correct the problems. But L is just one of the problems and not the critical one in this particular match IMO. He's found solutions in the past to the L problem with the right personnel. I think one will arise at some point this year, but other than GG this is a really inexperienced BR crew. I can understand the thinking somewhat to start her, but when that bump set that went completely over the net and out happened, he should have pulled GG. At this point, even us fans know well enough that GG can get into her head and completely shrinks, and most often she doesn't pull herself out. At minimum she should have been pulled for a mental reset, the way he has been pulling the middles/RS when they perform badly this season, and (some) of them at least have shown before they can pull themselves out of a funk. Charlie has been pulled for mental resets. Why was GG left in there as she blast serves out of bound, shank SRs, and not get digs that good defensive liberos should get?
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Post by swaggyp on Sept 27, 2024 16:43:59 GMT -5
Who knows what his thinking was here. Why was GG left in there as she blast serves out of bound, shank SRs, and not get digs that good defensive liberos should get? I mean one solution that probably passes the occam's razor test is that he believed all available alternatives were worse. You don't have to agree with him, but it is certainly a possibility.
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Post by tablealgebra on Sept 27, 2024 16:52:05 GMT -5
People like to pick on serve receive (service line errors too) for the same reason they like to pick on missed free throws in basketball. It's an individual thing and everyone is looking at just one person while they are doing it. But players don't just have one responsibility, they have to do 50 things well in order to win a volleyball match. I mean I understand it. Finding scapegoats is also how as a fan you can deal with the pain of loss and the lack of control of the situation. But there is a point where it just goes overboard. Yes. People should take care of their own mental wellness by ranting in private, not by ranting in public where they are passing along their stress to others, possibly including players. There's a difference between being angry with your friends at the bar or at your home watch party and being angry in a public forum - one of them never goes away.
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Post by pull3 on Sept 27, 2024 16:52:11 GMT -5
Why was GG left in there as she blast serves out of bound, shank SRs, and not get digs that good defensive liberos should get? I mean one solution that probably passes the occam's razor test is that he believed all available alternatives were worse. You don't have to agree with him, but it is certainly a possibility.
When she can perform it in drills but not in actual games, the concept just gets worse.
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Post by Burly Ives on Sept 27, 2024 17:09:04 GMT -5
Someone mentioned GG is likely in there against Minnesota due to her 'experience'.
If the end goal is to win a Big Ten championship and beyond, I would think that a realistic tact would be to continue to build Lola up for the ultimate end games this season while still giving us a fighting chance at the W.
We had won quite a few games in a row with Lola wearing the Libero shirt.
Sheffield risks Lola losing confidence by pulling her from the role as well.
Sheffields mad scientist moves are kinda puzzling this season especially the two libero experiment.
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Post by 25or624 on Sept 27, 2024 17:23:31 GMT -5
I mean I understand it. Finding scapegoats is also how as a fan you can deal with the pain of loss and the lack of control of the situation. But there is a point where it just goes overboard. Yes. People should take care of their own mental wellness by ranting in private, not by ranting in public where they are passing along their stress to others, possibly including players. There's a difference between being angry with your friends at the bar or at your home watch party and being angry in a public forum - one of them never goes away. What is the point in having a fan forum if the fans can't acknowledge some reality-based facts and express some displeasure? Do we have a duty to shield the players and staff who choose to read these comments from fair criticism? Based on public comments some of the players have been willing to make, I don't think any of the Badger players would expect posters to self-censor critiques of player performance.
To be clear, I am not talking about comments that get personal, e.g., "Player X is so stupid and I really hate her. She is useless". I'm not seeing that kind of thing in the post-Minnesota match discussion.
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Post by tablealgebra on Sept 27, 2024 19:49:30 GMT -5
Yes. People should take care of their own mental wellness by ranting in private, not by ranting in public where they are passing along their stress to others, possibly including players. There's a difference between being angry with your friends at the bar or at your home watch party and being angry in a public forum - one of them never goes away. What is the point in having a fan forum if the fans can't acknowledge some reality-based facts and express some displeasure? Do we have a duty to shield the players and staff who choose to read these comments from fair criticism? Based on public comments some of the players have been willing to make, I don't think any of the Badger players would expect posters to self-censor critiques of player performance.
To be clear, I am not talking about comments that get personal, e.g., "Player X is so stupid and I really hate her. She is useless". I'm not seeing that kind of thing in the post-Minnesota match discussion.
There's a difference between criticizing player's play and what I saw in the Minnesota game thread, not to mention some other comments on here. It was vitriol thinly disguised. To me, the difference is criticism followed by the desire to discard or give up on a player, or calling on others to pile on the criticism of a player. I can't comment on the post-match part of the thread because I'd already gotten so angry at other posters by that time that I chose to pack it up and not read that stuff.
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