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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2024 15:54:45 GMT -5
I feel like Norceca is the only one that has lots of little tournaments that are not necessary. AVC too. CEV, CAVB and CSV only have continental championships, the VNL, WCH and OG's now. I agree that the club season is really too long but good luck getting those leagues to shorten their seasons, unless they shrink the number of teams in the top division? Idk. The VNL is adding teams but I'm not certain on the tournament structure. I thought I read somewhere that there wouldn't be an increase in matches but a slight decrease, with the preliminary round probably being split into two pools for two complete* round robins. Then the top 4 teams in every pool make the finals but I could be mistaken. I don't like the VNL format since 2022 where it is an incomplete round robin. Ick. unfortunately 15 rounds is too much and VNL is good to give lower-rated teams a chance to improve their ranking
I think Poland improved their ranking significantly, but i don't remember for sure and don't know how to get historical data
Oh for sure. 15 matches is too much. I think that adding in more teams and splitting the league into two groups is a move in the right direction. I think as the tournament evolves we could see the addition of more teams and have them broken up into even smaller pools for even less matches in the future. What would an ideal tournament structure be in your opinion?
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Post by medusa on Jun 20, 2024 16:07:27 GMT -5
USA have any chance of being top 7??? In order to be in finals.
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Post by jerrittsmelliot on Jun 20, 2024 16:08:08 GMT -5
USA have any chance of being top 7??? In order to be in finals. Men’s or….
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Post by HandeBallerdın on Jun 20, 2024 16:21:17 GMT -5
Club season in europe is not too long. VNL is simply way too close to end of club season for the top teams (also the CL final should be a week after the domestic seasons wrap up at most).
Theres usually a decent break between vnl and the summer championship tournaments that may take place. And then theres sometimes a decent break between those and the club season.
Problem is some teams (like Turkey but others too) are go go go, sending a team to every match, filling open space with friendlies and training camps. Zehra Gunes hasnt had time to rehab her shoulder injury without a looming deadline in 2 years, for example. And she seems to always want to play, and no one is stopping her.
However we dont need world championship every two years, and continental championship like the euros on the other two years. There should be one year without a midsummer major tournament out of a 4 year cycle.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2024 16:27:53 GMT -5
Club season in europe is not too long. VNL is simply way too close to end of club season for the top teams (also the CL final should be a week after the domestic seasons wrap up at most). Theres usually a decent break between vnl and the summer championship tournaments that may take place. And then theres sometimes a decent break between those and the club season. Problem is some teams (like Turkey but others too) are go go go, sending a team to every match, filling open space with friendlies and training camps. Zehra Gunes hasnt had time to rehab her shoulder injury without a looming deadline in 2 years, for example. And she seems to always want to play, and no one is stopping her. However we dont need world championship every two years, and continental championship like the euros on the other two years. There should be one year without a midsummer major tournament out of a 4 year cycle. There used to be the Grand Champions Cup in the year after the Olympics. Some teams sent olympians but usually brought the up and coming crop of new talent onto their rosters for that tournament. Those new players were sort of a teams declaration of who they were going to be investing in for the Olympics in four years. Now there will be little to none of that, especially in Europe.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jun 20, 2024 16:38:33 GMT -5
unfortunately 15 rounds is too much and VNL is good to give lower-rated teams a chance to improve their ranking
I think Poland improved their ranking significantly, but i don't remember for sure and don't know how to get historical data
Oh for sure. 15 matches is too much. I think that adding in more teams and splitting the league into two groups is a move in the right direction. I think as the tournament evolves we could see the addition of more teams and have them broken up into even smaller pools for even less matches in the future. What would an ideal tournament structure be in your opinion? I don't think that splitting the league is a good idea. If you're Poland, for example, in 2021/22, you'd want to be playing top ranked teams like USA, Brazil, China, Serbia, etc because you would gain so much ranking points if you win and not lose much if you lose. Sure we have a lot of garbage matches (like anything involving France/Bulgaria/Korea against a top team) but that's the price you have to pay for teams to possibly make a breakthrough in the ranking. In the end I don't think this current ranking system is perfect or even good but it's better than what we had before (under the previous system, Korea would keep ranking points for their 4th place finish in Tokyo until now) and VNL is like the annual event for teams to have a chance to improve their world ranking. (unless if you determine who teams play by the Swiss system, which is completely unrealistic because you don't know who plays who in advance so everyone has to be at the same venue) I would make space for it by shortening club season. There's no reason why Italian and Turkish league needs 14 teams when the bottom ones just keep sucking because of limited finances and the fact that top players tend to go to top teams so they can keep winning. Instead of 22 rounds of prelims (14 team double round robin) 14 seems plenty (8 team double round robin) And in the end, I think it's the national teams results that fans care about. Gozde kirdar is a CEV CL MVP ffs
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Post by avid 2.0 on Jun 20, 2024 16:42:35 GMT -5
Oh for sure. 15 matches is too much. I think that adding in more teams and splitting the league into two groups is a move in the right direction. I think as the tournament evolves we could see the addition of more teams and have them broken up into even smaller pools for even less matches in the future. What would an ideal tournament structure be in your opinion? I don't think that splitting the league is a good idea. If you're Poland, for example, in 2021/22, you'd want to be playing top ranked teams like USA, Brazil, China, Serbia, etc because you would gain so much ranking points if you win and not lose much if you lose. Sure we have a lot of garbage matches (like anything involving France/Bulgaria/Korea against a top team) but that's the price you have to pay for teams to possibly make a breakthrough in the ranking. In the end I don't think this current ranking system is perfect or even good but it's better than what we had before (under the previous system, Korea would keep ranking points for their 4th place finish in Tokyo until now) and VNL is like the annual event for teams to have a chance to improve their world ranking. (unless if you determine who teams play by the Swiss system, which is completely unrealistic because you don't know who plays who in advance so everyone has to be at the same venue) I would make space for it by shortening club season. There's no reason why Italian and Turkish league needs 14 teams when the bottom ones just keep sucking because of limited finances and the fact that top players tend to go to top teams so they can keep winning. Instead of 22 rounds of prelims (14 team double round robin) 14 seems plenty (8 team double round robin) And in the end, I think it's the national teams results that fans care about. Gozde kirdar is a CEV CL MVP ffs the only issue with this is that they earn their money from clubs. they cant shorten it by that much. (I do agree 14 team leagues are a bit much)
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Post by avid 2.0 on Jun 20, 2024 16:44:10 GMT -5
i think there's too many club matches too, because of continental tournaments, league matches, league CUPS. it's just so much. they're adding more teams to vnl next year right? idk how that's going to work with the schedule as crammed as it is. they could eliminate a lot of the random summer tourneys too (looking at you, final six tourney), but idk. I feel like Norceca is the only one that has lots of little tournaments that are not necessary. we wont accept norceca tournament slander! lol DOM is the only team that takes all of them 100%, so that's their own problem. I like them as developmental opportunities since Canada cant do that in the VNL and USA wont.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jun 20, 2024 16:45:53 GMT -5
I don't think that splitting the league is a good idea. If you're Poland, for example, in 2021/22, you'd want to be playing top ranked teams like USA, Brazil, China, Serbia, etc because you would gain so much ranking points if you win and not lose much if you lose. Sure we have a lot of garbage matches (like anything involving France/Bulgaria/Korea against a top team) but that's the price you have to pay for teams to possibly make a breakthrough in the ranking. In the end I don't think this current ranking system is perfect or even good but it's better than what we had before (under the previous system, Korea would keep ranking points for their 4th place finish in Tokyo until now) and VNL is like the annual event for teams to have a chance to improve their world ranking. (unless if you determine who teams play by the Swiss system, which is completely unrealistic because you don't know who plays who in advance so everyone has to be at the same venue) I would make space for it by shortening club season. There's no reason why Italian and Turkish league needs 14 teams when the bottom ones just keep sucking because of limited finances and the fact that top players tend to go to top teams so they can keep winning. Instead of 22 rounds of prelims (14 team double round robin) 14 seems plenty (8 team double round robin) And in the end, I think it's the national teams results that fans care about. Gozde kirdar is a CEV CL MVP ffs the only issue with this is that they earn their money from clubs. they cant shorten it by that much. (I do agree 14 team leagues are a bit much) If boskovic is making 1m euro in eszaci, how many of those euros are from beating up on PTT and besikas?
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Post by avid 2.0 on Jun 20, 2024 16:47:40 GMT -5
the only issue with this is that they earn their money from clubs. they cant shorten it by that much. (I do agree 14 team leagues are a bit much) If boskovic is making 1m euro in eszaci, how many of those euros are from beating up on PTT and besikas? well its not about those clubs. None of those clubs need fans in order to exist (Ecza had like 100 fans show up when they played Sariyer) but the other non-top sponsored teams need the revenues from those matches to survive. You can't have a league with 4 teams.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jun 20, 2024 16:52:21 GMT -5
If boskovic is making 1m euro in eszaci, how many of those euros are from beating up on PTT and besikas? well its not about those clubs. None of those clubs need fans in order to exist (Ecza had like 100 fans show up when they played Sariyer) but the other non-top sponsored teams need the revenues from those matches to survive. You can't have a league with 4 teams. ugh you're right and I hate it
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Post by HandeBallerdın on Jun 20, 2024 16:59:54 GMT -5
If boskovic is making 1m euro in eszaci, how many of those euros are from beating up on PTT and besikas? well its not about those clubs. None of those clubs need fans in order to exist (Ecza had like 100 fans show up when they played Sariyer) but the other non-top sponsored teams need the revenues from those matches to survive. You can't have a league with 4 teams. exactly. Parity is not a thing that european leagues are based on. A good league is expected to have multiple teams competing for the title, some others competing for the next few places, and some others in a relegation battle. Maybe 12 is fine. Any less would be a bit dumb.
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Post by chatchu-off moksri on Jun 20, 2024 17:01:19 GMT -5
unfortunately 15 rounds is too much and VNL is good to give lower-rated teams a chance to improve their ranking
I think Poland improved their ranking significantly, but i don't remember for sure and don't know how to get historical data
Oh for sure. 15 matches is too much. I think that adding in more teams and splitting the league into two groups is a move in the right direction. I think as the tournament evolves we could see the addition of more teams and have them broken up into even smaller pools for even less matches in the future. What would an ideal tournament structure be in your opinion? imo if they're willing to invest into 18 teams for VNL, i'd prefer seeing a tier 1 and a tier 2 with 9 teams in each tier. each tier plays a round robin, so 8 matches total for pool play. then, the top 4 in tier 1 go to playoffs where they play a semi and then a final. the bottom 2 from tier 1 and the top 2 in tier 2 play a round robin after pool play. the top two teams from this pool of 4 go/stay in tier 1 and the bottom two get put in tier 2. the bottom team from tier 2 gets put in a challenge cup (similar to the one that already exists) where they have to compete against the "next in" countries from each federation for a spot in tier 2 so basically something like the World Grand Prix except with a small number of teams (i think)
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Post by ironhammer on Jun 20, 2024 18:21:36 GMT -5
No real surprise there. China wasn't playing to win anyway.
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Post by ironhammer on Jun 20, 2024 18:23:06 GMT -5
China down like 3, 4? superstars and gets swept by Japan - I thought a second round China-Brazil middles matchup was going to the match of the VNL, dang Eh...no real superstars on China B team. Veterans sure, but no superstars.
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