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Post by vergyltantor on May 22, 2024 10:58:19 GMT -5
I acknowledge that COVID played a role but, the economy tanked under one President and recovered under another. Also that a second major recession since 2008 was averted due to stimulus injected into the economy over the objections of the majority of Republicans. All the COVID stimulus in 2020 was supported by a majority of Republicans (CARES and the omnibus). And they voted against the $1.9 Trillion Covid relief bill, the infrastructure, and the Chips & Science acts. Basically as soon a Biden became President most if not all bipartisan support for recovery disappeared. Edit: The inflation reduction act of 2022 was passed in the House on a party line vote as well. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 22, 2024 11:06:00 GMT -5
Are you really going to be that dishonest as to not acknowledge the role that covid played in affecting the economy? I acknowledge that COVID played a role but, the economy tanked under one President and recovered under another. Also that a second major recession since 2008 was averted due to stimulus injected into the economy over the objections of the majority of Republicans. Well I’m relieved to see that you don’t deny reality. By extension, if there wasn’t covid, there would be no “tanking” of the economy (and quite possibly a second Trump term). |
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Post by aardvark on May 22, 2024 11:08:43 GMT -5
Let me reword this for you... The numbers were better under Biden. Short and sweet. It gets right to the most important point. Actually, it accentuates your refusal to acknowledge how good they were under Trump. That, my friend, is the definition of TDS. Presidents are given way too much credit/blame for the economy, in a general sense. We are a capitalistic society, after all. Trump inherited a good economy from Biden, and the economy continued to do well until COVID wrecked it. Biden inherited that mess, but soon enough the economy returned to good form despite Putin deciding to invade Ukraine, and the Fed unwinding the free money policy it had been using for many years before then. Any fair evaluation of Trump versus Biden on the economy should give Biden the higher grade. I was intrigued about your mention of $85 million going to HBCUs under Trump. I looked up the story on it. Google "Did Trump save HBCUs?" for a description on the subject that is informative, easy to read, and not overly long. Bottom line is mixed. Trump did sign the bill, but it was bipartisan all along, so just applauding him is misguided. There are other factors. Read to be well informed. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 22, 2024 11:17:28 GMT -5
Actually, it accentuates your refusal to acknowledge how good they were under Trump. That, my friend, is the definition of TDS. Presidents are given way too much credit/blame for the economy, in a general sense. We are a capitalistic society, after all. Trump inherited a good economy from Biden, and the economy continued to do well until COVID wrecked it. Biden inherited that mess, but soon enough the economy returned to good form despite Putin deciding to invade Ukraine, and the Fed unwinding the free money policy it had been using for many years before then. Any fair evaluation of Trump versus Biden on the economy should give Biden the higher grade. I was intrigued about your mention of $85 million going to HBCUs under Trump. I looked up the story on it. Google "Did Trump save HBCUs?" for a description on the subject that is informative, easy to read, and not overly long. Bottom line is mixed. Trump did sign the bill, but it was bipartisan all along, so just applauding him is misguided. There are other factors. Read to be well informed. Read the same (it would seem) story you did. Your rebuke is duly noted. EDIT—- Also noting that when it suits you you will tout the economy being better during Biden, but rather than acknowledge where they were during Trump you prefer to say Presidents are given too much credit/blame for the economy. |
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Post by jsquare on May 22, 2024 13:19:39 GMT -5
Tell us about the economy Trump inherited. And maintained if not furthered before covid. How would you know that? What Trump economic policies are you talking about? |
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Post by jsquare on May 22, 2024 13:22:48 GMT -5
I acknowledge that COVID played a role but, the economy tanked under one President and recovered under another. Also that a second major recession since 2008 was averted due to stimulus injected into the economy over the objections of the majority of Republicans. Well I’m relieved to see that you don’t deny reality. By extension, if there wasn’t covid, there would be no “tanking” of the economy (and quite possibly a second Trump term). That is entirely your opinion. You can't deny that Trump's response to COVID was disastrous. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 22, 2024 14:34:15 GMT -5
Well I’m relieved to see that you don’t deny reality. By extension, if there wasn’t covid, there would be no “tanking” of the economy (and quite possibly a second Trump term). That is entirely your opinion. You can't deny that Trump's response to COVID was disastrous. Trump’s (and other government official’s) response to covid is not the point. I get that you have a need to decry Trump at every turn (there should be a name for that), but there was no dip in the economy, as far as I remember, pre-covid. That’s thought for you and others to admit so you hastily point to the economy under Biden or protest that he inherited a solid economy from Obama. Fact is the economy continued to excel when Trump was in office, for the first three years. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 22, 2024 14:35:51 GMT -5
And maintained if not furthered before covid. How would you know that? What Trump economic policies are you talking about? Are you saying that the economy wasn’t solid or better than before during he first three years of Trump in office? |
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Post by T Gap on May 22, 2024 17:13:35 GMT -5
That is entirely your opinion. You can't deny that Trump's response to COVID was disastrous. Trump’s (and other government official’s) response to covid is not the point. I get that you have a need to decry Trump at every turn (there should be a name for that), but there was no dip in the economy, as far as I remember, pre-covid. That’s thought for you and others to admit so you hastily point to the economy under Biden or protest that he inherited a solid economy from Obama. Fact is the economy continued to excel when Trump was in office, for the first three years. Yes, Trump's response to COVID is the point, dip%*$#. In addition, many economic measures were already in decline under Trump before COVID. More jobs were created in Obama's last 3 years than Trump's 1st 3 years; Obama had the annual budget deficit lowered to below $500 billion. In "the greatest economy in the history of the world" (according to Trump), he increased the annual deficit to $984 billion. Inflation was increased under Trump, also. As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just as stupid and misinformed as HOLIDUMB. It's sad because I used to live in a Canadian bordering state and am very fond of Canada and most Canadians I've met and still have some that are close friends. They're not low-information Simpletons, though.. Trump's response to COVID was a disaster. HIS response, not other government agencies: they did the best they could with Trump interfering to suit his own needs. HE controlled and tried to control every aspect of the response (telling the CDC what to say,what guidelines, threatening CDC directors to bend to his will, what numbers to report, etc); he encouraged LACK OF TESTING because he was afraid the numbers would make him look bad and he'd lose the election, "Slow the testing, down, please" ; he disbanded the pandemic task force Obama set up; ignored a worldwide pandemic saying it would "go away in April 2020"; put his SON-IN-LAW in charge of the pandemic response; said the US Fed Gov is not "FedEx/a shipping store (paraphrasing) when Governors were begging him for supplies that should have been sent; fought with Democratic Governors "I'm not going to call that woman/Michigan Governor", and Republican Governors who dared call him out for his incompetence; withheld COVID aid for blue states; a Republican Governor in Maryland, Larry Hogan, didn't want Covid supplies/tests confiscated by Trump & Jared Kushner's Fed Mob like they were doing (selling it to China, ensuring Trump & Kushner's friends profited, etc), so guess what he did? He had to do it in secret. Unreal. The feds under Trump were stealing Covid supplies. Trump always has acted like a mob boss, before, after and during his Presidency. Your stupid ass just thinks "oh that's hyperbole". No, @$$%*!*, it's not. You're not smart enough to discuss politics. Stick to hockey, eh? From Forbes: "The Trump administration has put the onus on states to obtain medical supplies and expand testing themselves, with the federal government acting as a “supplier of last resort.” It has not been easy. Massachusetts ordered 3 million masks that were confiscated by the federal government at the Port of New York, forcing them to lean on New England Patriots’ owner Robert Kraft to use his team plane to fly in 1 million N95 masks from China. Hospitals in states like California and FLORIDA reported that the Federal Emergency Management Agency had seized their supplies without explanation." www.forbes.com/sites/arielshapiro/2020/04/30/maryland-gov-hogan-takes-extraordinary-steps-to-keep-feds-from-confiscating-covid-tests-trump/?sh=6ed3062375d3 |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 22, 2024 17:50:22 GMT -5
Trump’s (and other government official’s) response to covid is not the point. I get that you have a need to decry Trump at every turn (there should be a name for that), but there was no dip in the economy, as far as I remember, pre-covid. That’s thought for you and others to admit so you hastily point to the economy under Biden or protest that he inherited a solid economy from Obama. Fact is the economy continued to excel when Trump was in office, for the first three years. Yes, Trump's response to COVID is the point, dip%*$#. In addition, many economic measures were already in decline under Trump before COVID. More jobs were created in Obama's last 3 years than Trump's 1st 3 years; Obama had the annual budget deficit lowered to below $500 billion. In "the greatest economy in the history of the world" (according to Trump), he increased the annual deficit to $984 billion. Inflation was increased under Trump, also. As usual, you have no idea what you're talking about. You're just as stupid and misinformed as HOLIDUMB. It's sad because I used to live in a Canadian bordering state and am very fond of Canada and most Canadians I've met and still have some that are close friends. They're not low-information Simpletons, though.. Trump's response to COVID was a disaster. HIS response, not other government agencies: they did the best they could with Trump interfering to suit his own needs. HE controlled and tried to control every aspect of the response (telling the CDC what to say,what guidelines, threatening CDC directors to bend to his will, what numbers to report, etc); he encouraged LACK OF TESTING because he was afraid the numbers would make him look bad and he'd lose the election, "Slow the testing, down, please" ; he disbanded the pandemic task force Obama set up; ignored a worldwide pandemic saying it would "go away in April 2020"; put his SON-IN-LAW in charge of the pandemic response; said the US Fed Gov is not "FedEx/a shipping store (paraphrasing) when Governors were begging him for supplies that should have been sent; fought with Democratic Governors "I'm not going to call that woman/Michigan Governor", and Republican Governors who dared call him out for his incompetence; withheld COVID aid for blue states; a Republican Governor in Maryland, Larry Hogan, didn't want Covid supplies/tests confiscated by Trump & Jared Kushner's Fed Mob like they were doing (selling it to China, ensuring Trump & Kushner's friends profited, etc), so guess what he did? He had to do it in secret. Unreal. The feds under Trump were stealing Covid supplies. Trump always has acted like a mob boss, before, after and during his Presidency. Your stupid ass just thinks "oh that's hyperbole". No, @$$%*!*, it's not. You're not smart enough to discuss politics. Stick to hockey, eh? From Forbes: "The Trump administration has put the onus on states to obtain medical supplies and expand testing themselves, with the federal government acting as a “supplier of last resort.” It has not been easy. Massachusetts ordered 3 million masks that were confiscated by the federal government at the Port of New York, forcing them to lean on New England Patriots’ owner Robert Kraft to use his team plane to fly in 1 million N95 masks from China. Hospitals in states like California and FLORIDA reported that the Federal Emergency Management Agency had seized their supplies without explanation." www.forbes.com/sites/arielshapiro/2020/04/30/maryland-gov-hogan-takes-extraordinary-steps-to-keep-feds-from-confiscating-covid-tests-trump/?sh=6ed3062375d3Your non-sequitor ramblings about Canada and Canadians aside, it's refreshing to see you abandon hyperbole, crazy fonts, and periods for straight up insults. You're acting like a hoser eh. Might be the TDS but I'm not sure. At least your mentioning of where inflation was (1.4%) brings us back to the original gaffe in question, so there's that I guess. What do you think Trump could have done differently that would have stopped Governors from requiring restaurants from operating at less than half capacity, churches from not being able to have in person services, or businesses from only allowing ten people or less in their stores? |
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Post by mervinswerved on May 22, 2024 18:54:54 GMT -5
FWIW, the outcome from COVID under a Hilary Clinton presidency probably would have been about the same. Maybe less buffoonish and offensive but still probably a million plus dead, give or take a couple hundred thousand. Maybe worse, because I could easily see red state governors outright refuse to take any measures in March and April 2020, not to mention what would likely have been a GOP-controlled house and Senate.
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Post by aardvark on May 22, 2024 19:40:43 GMT -5
Presidents are given way too much credit/blame for the economy, in a general sense. We are a capitalistic society, after all. Trump inherited a good economy from Biden, and the economy continued to do well until COVID wrecked it. Biden inherited that mess, but soon enough the economy returned to good form despite Putin deciding to invade Ukraine, and the Fed unwinding the free money policy it had been using for many years before then. Any fair evaluation of Trump versus Biden on the economy should give Biden the higher grade. I was intrigued about your mention of $85 million going to HBCUs under Trump. I looked up the story on it. Google "Did Trump save HBCUs?" for a description on the subject that is informative, easy to read, and not overly long. Bottom line is mixed. Trump did sign the bill, but it was bipartisan all along, so just applauding him is misguided. There are other factors. Read to be well informed. Read the same (it would seem) story you did. Your rebuke is duly noted. EDIT—- Also noting that when it suits you you will tout the economy being better during Biden, but rather than acknowledge where they were during Trump you prefer to say Presidents are given too much credit/blame for the economy. Nope. The truth is what suits me. The truth is that people vote poorly. They are prone to the shiny issue of the moment, making them vulnerable to the song of the Republicans (they should vote in goal oriented fashion). Whatever their flaws, the GOP is wonderful at messaging. They can broadcast a message out quickly and with enough volume in their echo chamber that it consistently spills out into the mainstream media. It seems like every election the people routinely judge candidates based on the issues the Republicans want to be foremost. That would be the economy, crime, and lately immigration. The thing is that all three are phony issues right now. The economy can only be marginally influenced by a President. Traditionally, the people think the Republicans are better than the Dems when it comes to the economy. This is understandable, as financial experts are predominantly conservative, so people naturally think they should know more. The trick is they don't know squat. Financial experts are mostly empty suits that can't beat index funds. Historically, Republican administrations have performed about equal to Dem ones. So the reputation the public gives them is not deserved. It's a myth. But as long as the public believes this myth, they'll keep pushing it. This even shows up in recent history, comparing Biden and Trump. Biden has done better, yet polls show the public trusts Trump more on this subject. They aren't paying attention. Trump brags big but delivers small. Yes, the economy did well under him until COVID hit. But that's because it was already running well, there were no active wars to suck our money, and the Fed was handing out free money his entire term. Once COVID arrived, the wheels fell off. Trump should be held to account for that. Instead, because the GOP dominates the airwaves, they not only direct attention to their favored issues, but also to aspects of them most in their favor. I am speaking of inflation here, which is the one area of the economy where Biden hasn't beaten Trump. Then there's crime. It has been sliding downward, and per capita violent crime is worst in red state that have lots of guns. Despite the trend, rightwing media sources talk up crime right before the election, knowing that when the public is worried about crime, they tend to vote more for Republicans. The thing is, crime isn't worse. they're just talking about it more. It's a gigantic jedi mind trick. Hopefully, it will work less effectively this time, because their leader is beset with legal issues of his own making. When you are led by a crook, it makes the law and order mantra seem less effective. The last phony issue is immigration. Immigration is actually a good thing, as undocumented migrants tend to commit less crime and consume less resources, while working jobs most citizens don't want. This helps the economy. If people (foolishly) wanted to cut back on immigration, they wouldn't build a wall. That's a childish solution. They'd simply fine companies that employ them. Once available jobs dry up, they'll stop coming here. This in turn would tank the economy, but people rarely think through the consequences of their silly voting. |
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Post by jsquare on May 22, 2024 20:17:43 GMT -5
That is entirely your opinion. You can't deny that Trump's response to COVID was disastrous. Trump’s (and other government official’s) response to covid is not the point. I get that you have a need to decry Trump at every turn (there should be a name for that), but there was no dip in the economy, as far as I remember, pre-covid. That’s thought for you and others to admit so you hastily point to the economy under Biden or protest that he inherited a solid economy from Obama. Fact is the economy continued to excel when Trump was in office, for the first three years. Trump did NOTHING to improve the US economy, in fact all he did was to add massively to the debt. Trump's poor response to COVID added to the downturn in the economy due to the pandemic. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on May 22, 2024 20:27:59 GMT -5
Well that was quite the diatribe of 'vark's, is it Festivus already?
I do wonder which "Red States" have more violent crime than Illinois, California, or even Minnesota. I also wonder if the crime in those "Red States" happen in "Blue cities"
And I do wonder which "airwaves" the GOP dominate.
I do appreciate 'vark supporting some of the points that I made though. (s)he should probably talk directly to his choir (square/gaps) rather than his imaginary unconverted on those points.
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Post by volleyguy on May 22, 2024 20:34:02 GMT -5
Well that was quite the diatribe of 'vark's, is it Festivus already? I do wonder which "Red States" have more violent crime than Illinois, California, or even Minnesota. I also wonder if the crime in those "Red States" happen in "Blue cities" And I do wonder which "airwaves" the GOP dominate. I do appreciate 'vark supporting some of the points that I made though. (s)he should probably talk directly to his choir (square/gaps) rather than his imaginary unconverted on those points. You should get out more, bro. List of United States cities by crime rate en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate |
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