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Post by mplsgopher on Apr 18, 2024 13:43:04 GMT -5
Everything you say here is well stated, and I think already understood. Yes the injunction was for inbetween seasons (multiple times). Not for mid-season. You argued that court precedent gives the NCAA the authority to regulate eligibility. So then why did they cave? If they have the authority, as you say they do, then they would have no risk of losing the case. You can’t have it both ways. I don’t see how it can be one but not the other. This is all hypothetical. I think we’re just going to have to wait and see if someone tests it, and then if the NCAA caves again or if they go to court and what the judge(s) say(s). My argument was that a limitation on a mid-season eligibility (that is, not allowing immediate eligibility) is more defensible than requiring a full year to transpire before being eligible, or denying a student-athlete multiple tranfers (which is not a limitation that exists for regular students, for example.) OK. Thanks for that additional clarification. Now I get it. That might work, we will see … I mean, if a top notch graduate student in chemistry decides to transfer between the fall and spring semesters to a new school to work in a different PI’s lab … are they not immediately eligible to begin that work and get paid for doing so? Just sayin (you brought up “regular” students).
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Apr 18, 2024 13:45:02 GMT -5
Maybe this is a hot take (or not) but I don’t think college athletes should even have to be degree-seeking in order to be eligible.
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Post by mplsgopher on Apr 18, 2024 13:46:03 GMT -5
Maybe this is a hot take (or not) but I don’t think college athletes should even have to be degree-seeking in order to be eligible. That is indeed spicy. Without question, a person can become employed at a university without being an enrolled student there.
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Post by slxpress on Apr 18, 2024 14:09:45 GMT -5
What are you people talking about? Players transfer in basketball mid season right now. There’s no prohibition on it. It doesn’t happen often, so it might start occurring more frequently. But the next player to do it will not be the first. And competing for their new team in the same season? I’m a college basketball fan and have not heard of this happening. Do you have an example? Jaylon Tyson did it, transferring from Texas to Texas Tech midseason. He's now at California.
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Post by n00b on Apr 18, 2024 15:10:22 GMT -5
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Post by n00b on Apr 18, 2024 15:12:03 GMT -5
Maybe this is a hot take (or not) but I don’t think college athletes should even have to be degree-seeking in order to be eligible. Saying college sports shouldn’t exist is a reasonable take. But I’m not sure I understand requiring athletes to be enrolled in college without any sort of path towards getting a degree.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Apr 18, 2024 15:24:29 GMT -5
Maybe this is a hot take (or not) but I don’t think college athletes should even have to be degree-seeking in order to be eligible. Saying college sports shouldn’t exist is a reasonable take. But I’m not sure I understand requiring athletes to be enrolled in college without any sort of path towards getting a degree. I think it’s fine to get an education and take classes at a university without having to get a degree. Of course, the easiest way around this is to be officially degree seeking without having any intent of completing it.
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Post by FUBAR on Apr 18, 2024 16:36:46 GMT -5
Of course, the easiest way around this is to be officially degree seeking without having any intent of completing it. Describing every men's basketball player at University of Kentucky for roughly a 15 year stretch...
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Post by mplsgopher on Apr 18, 2024 16:39:13 GMT -5
Free transfers and NIL are tightly coupled, so I think this is related enough to put here:
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Post by HawaiiVB on Apr 18, 2024 17:24:24 GMT -5
www.staradvertiser.com/2024/04/17/sports/sports-breaking/ncaa-allows-immediate-eligibility-unlimited-transfers/Honolulu Star-Advertiser logo Thursday, April 18, 2024 Today's Paper Clouds and sun80° SPORTS BREAKING | TOP NEWS NCAA allows immediate eligibility, unlimited transfers By Associated Press April 17, 2024 Updated 1:57 pm ED HILLE/THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER VIA ASSOCIATED PRESS NCAA athletes will be immediately eligible to play no matter how many times they transfer — as long as they meet academic requirements — after the association fast-tracked legislation today to fall in line with a recent court order. The NCAA posted on social media that the Division I Council’s decision becomes official Thursday when its meeting adjourns. It still needs to be ratified by the DI Board next week, but that is expected. The new rules will go into effect immediately, though in reality they have already been enacted through a lawsuit filed late last year. Transfer windows, which are sport-specific, remain in place and require undergraduate athletes to enter their names into the portal at certain times to be immediately eligible at a new school. Graduate students can already transfer multiple times and enter the portal outside the windows while maintaining immediate eligibility. A coalition of state attorneys general late last year sued the NCAA, challenging rules that forced athletes who wanted to transfer multiple times as undergraduates to sit out a season with their new school. A judge in West Virginia granted the plaintiffs a temporary injunction, lifting requirements for multiple-time transfers to request a waiver from the NCAA to be immediately eligible to compete. By eliminating the so-called year-in-residence for transfers, the council’s recommendation formalizes academic eligibility requirements, including progression toward a degree. The board is likely to ask the committee on academics to explore creating a new metric — similar to the NCAA”s Academic Progress Rating — that would hold schools accountable for graduating the transfers they accept. The portal windows are currently open for both football and basketball, and the lifting of restrictions on multiple-time transfers has led to an uptick in athletes looking to switch schools. In a notable move that would not have been permissible without a waiver under previous rules, Alabama offensive tackle Kadyn Proctor entered the portal in January after Crimson Tide coach Nick Saban retired, committed to Iowa, but then changed his mind during the spring and has re-entered the portal with the intention to re-enroll at Alabama. The DI Council also moved forward on legislation that would allow schools to be more actively involved in securing sponsorship deals for their athletes. Schools could still not directly pay athletes, but they could facilitate NIL opportunities between third parties and athletes.
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Post by mplsgopher on Apr 19, 2024 8:28:08 GMT -5
Feel free to move this to another thread, but all this stuff is interrelated and it’s flying as fast as ever:
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Post by n00b on Apr 19, 2024 9:10:27 GMT -5
Feel free to move this to another thread, but all this stuff is interrelated and it’s flying as fast as ever: Sigh. I think the outcome of all of this is that thousands upon thousands of athletes will lose out on the opportunity to play college sports.
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Post by mplsgopher on Apr 19, 2024 9:58:45 GMT -5
Feel free to move this to another thread, but all this stuff is interrelated and it’s flying as fast as ever: Sigh. I think the outcome of all of this is that thousands upon thousands of athletes will lose out on the opportunity to play college sports. I likely agree to some extent but would be curious to see you expand on this a bit. Which opportunities will go away and why? You mean, fewer varsity sports, I take it. That doesn’t mean they can’t become club sports, but obviously not quite the same thing/experience. Some could counter-claim that schools sinking relatively big money into a varsity sport that’s just there to fill out a Title IX or NCAA minimum requirement was never a valid thing and this is a long overdue correction. Just sayin
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Post by vbnerd on Apr 19, 2024 10:41:20 GMT -5
Sigh. I think the outcome of all of this is that thousands upon thousands of athletes will lose out on the opportunity to play college sports. I likely agree to some extent but would be curious to see you expand on this a bit. Which opportunities will go away and why? You mean, fewer varsity sports, I take it. That doesn’t mean they can’t become club sports, but obviously not quite the same thing/experience. Some could counter-claim that schools sinking relatively big money into a varsity sport that’s just there to fill out a Title IX or NCAA minimum requirement was never a valid thing and this is a long overdue correction. Just sayin If the NLRB claims go through, every team at every private school in the country could be declared employees. For all the D2 and D3 schools that field teams to fill beds and keep the doors open, you either raise tuition/fees to be able to pay your athletes, cut sports teams, or shutter the school. I'm sure we'll see all three in some measure. Do some teams drop to club status? Perhaps, but club teams generally don't recruit and for these schools, if club teams aren't filling additional beds, why bother? Also, the Dartmouth decision could potentially impact high schools, which could cut off the feeder system in a lot of sports. In D1, whether it is the NLRB or NIL, direct pay to athletes is coming. Cutting sports like water polo, men's volleyball and tennis will allow you to pay that left tackle and power forward more money! I'd like to say that a de-professionalization is coming but I've expected that for years and they just keep running towards the tv money so I think you have to expect the lemmings to run right off the cliff up until the point where they decide not to.
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Post by mplsgopher on Apr 19, 2024 11:59:59 GMT -5
I likely agree to some extent but would be curious to see you expand on this a bit. Which opportunities will go away and why? You mean, fewer varsity sports, I take it. That doesn’t mean they can’t become club sports, but obviously not quite the same thing/experience. Some could counter-claim that schools sinking relatively big money into a varsity sport that’s just there to fill out a Title IX or NCAA minimum requirement was never a valid thing and this is a long overdue correction. Just sayin If the NLRB claims go through, every team at every private school in the country could be declared employees. For all the D2 and D3 schools that field teams to fill beds and keep the doors open, you either raise tuition/fees to be able to pay your athletes, cut sports teams, or shutter the school. I'm sure we'll see all three in some measure. Do some teams drop to club status? Perhaps, but club teams generally don't recruit and for these schools, if club teams aren't filling additional beds, why bother? Also, the Dartmouth decision could potentially impact high schools, which could cut off the feeder system in a lot of sports. In D1, whether it is the NLRB or NIL, direct pay to athletes is coming. Cutting sports like water polo, men's volleyball and tennis will allow you to pay that left tackle and power forward more money! I'd like to say that a de-professionalization is coming but I've expected that for years and they just keep running towards the tv money so I think you have to expect the lemmings to run right off the cliff up until the point where they decide not to. Thanks, that is the angle I was missing. Basically, you’re saying that if student-athletes are now legal employees, then the law says you have to pay them minimum wage. Being allowed to directly pay an athlete for their NIL (if you choose to do that) versus being legally forced to pay an athlete a minimum wage, as if they were working at the cafeteria, are two things that are galaxies apart. I agree with the former, while I vehemently disagree with the latter. Agree that if legal employment goes through, (especially at smaller schools that make no money from varsity athletics) they’ll just turn around and “fire” those athletes by pulling the plug on the athletic dept. You can’t force a school to run a money losing operation that is tangential to the educational mission.
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