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Post by shopman on May 27, 2012 8:08:30 GMT -5
The last match between Japan and Serbia is a disgrace to world volleyball organization. It was a collusion by both teams to enter London Olympics together. The 3-2 win by Serbia was the only result that would put both teams through, and they managed to do that. Any other result would put only one team through and the other team out - and Thailand would go through instead. As host of the tournament, Japan arranged this match to be the last match of the qualifying tournament. The result of this match was obviously fixed by both Japan and Serbia. Should we condone such behavior of Japan and Serbia? Or should we condemn them both and make sure that such collusion would not take place again in the future?
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Post by baywatcher on May 27, 2012 10:58:49 GMT -5
Competitors are set Ranking for the tournament 1. Great Britain 2. USA 3. Brazil 4. Japan 5. Italy 6. China 7. Serbia 8. Russia 9. Dominican Republic 10. Turkey 11. South Korea 12. Algeria Potential nightmare for USA, or other top rated teams. Three worst teams on one side of the brackets. And I second the collusion remarks above.
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Post by OverAndUnder on May 27, 2012 12:09:13 GMT -5
I hope some day FIVB will begin to function under the same high standards of professional ethics and fairness as FIFA.
{BARF}
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Post by mikegarrison on May 27, 2012 16:37:29 GMT -5
The last match between Japan and Serbia is a disgrace to world volleyball organization. It was a collusion by both teams to enter London Olympics together. The 3-2 win by Serbia was the only result that would put both teams through, and they managed to do that. Any other result would put only one team through and the other team out - and Thailand would go through instead. As host of the tournament, Japan arranged this match to be the last match of the qualifying tournament. The result of this match was obviously fixed by both Japan and Serbia. Should we condone such behavior of Japan and Serbia? Or should we condemn them both and make sure that such collusion would not take place again in the future? This is the problem with the point system that gives a different number of points for a 3-2 win compared to any other win (and a point for losing 2-3). But the only system that prevents this scenario completely is a knockout tournament, where winners go on and losers go home. That has its own fairness problems, though, because of the importance of seeding.
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Post by MarsH on May 27, 2012 21:28:03 GMT -5
About the conspiracy theory on Serbia-Japan, I am probably in the minority of the people who is not sold on it.
After rewatching the Japan-Serbia match with calmer emotions, I don't think Japan threw the match or that 5th set.
Japan didn't receive serve well in the 5th set. I thought Serbia did a good job picking on Saori and serving her and she was under average in reception esp. in critical parts of the match.
Elsewhere, I heard from other people that Japan were deliberately making attacking errors in the 5th. What I saw was a Japanese team that was out of system and a Serbian team that made good blocking moves. Japan was still covering their hitters and playing defense.
I also heard the theory that Take%*$#a was deliberately setting her hitters in front of Serbia's block. Twice in the 5th set when Japan got blocked were when Take%*$#a had actually isolated her hitter to hit against a single Serbian blocker.
Probably the most suspicious thing for others is that Japan made 4 serving errors in the 5th set. I admit, they did hurt Japan's momentum. But I watched those serves again and those errors were not grossly negligent enough for me to think they were deliberately giving points to Serbia. A couple were actually quite close to being in.
I'm not trying to change other people's minds. Everyone is free to think what they want. As far as I'm concerned, there are matches that go into the "embrassingly-obvious-fixed-matches" column. And to me, this wasn't one of them.
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Post by FreeBaller on May 27, 2012 22:24:46 GMT -5
Here's the 5th set of Serbia vs Japan:
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Post by baywatcher on May 27, 2012 22:33:22 GMT -5
If I was Serbia I'd rather see Thailand than Japan in the Olympics.
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Post by Reach on May 28, 2012 8:45:54 GMT -5
Not sure how people think Japan lost that on purpose but whatever. I don't think you can calculate to be a millisecond late on defense or hit/serve the ball out by 1 inch a few times by design or anything. They were playing way too fast for that to happen.
Thai fans need to get over it as they we're not the better team. The 4 best teams are going to the Olympics. If they want to be upset then be upset with teams like England and Algeria being in the Olympics, but then again, by that train of thought many European teams should be playing in these games over Thailand like Germany and Poland.
That being said the Pools for the Olympics are a HOT MESS. How many matches do you have to win to make it to the cross over?
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Post by baywatcher on May 28, 2012 19:45:29 GMT -5
With the picking of lots for 2 v. 3 USA could win all but one match, finish second, then get Russia the first round (say Russkies finish second behind Italy). Russia wouldn't be ecstatic about that either. Blech.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2012 7:45:10 GMT -5
If I was Serbia I'd rather see Thailand than Japan in the Olympics. Exactly. This match was fair.
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Post by mikegarrison on May 29, 2012 12:50:44 GMT -5
The point is, of course, that Serbia would rather see SERBIA in the Olympics, and Japan would rather see JAPAN in the Olympics. They could have played straight up, and the winner goes.... Or they could have made a deal -- Serbia guarantees Japan two sets if Japan guarantees Serbia the win. That would mean nothing was left to chance. It's not about wanting Thailand out of the Olympics, it's about a guarantee of getting into the Olympics yourself.
Did they do this? I have no idea. The rules need to be changed so that this scenario can't happen. Any time there is any potential incentive to throw a game there will be questions asked about whether it happened.
The idea of a 3-2 win giving 2/1 points instead of 3/0 sounds like a good idea, but it leads to this outcome. I think a win should be a win and a loss should be a loss, regardless of how many sets are played. Even if there were no intentional collusion, once Japan won two sets they were in, while Serbia still needed that third set. If nothing else this gives Serbia more motivation than Japan in the fifth set.
They also should clearly separate the Asian tournament from the Olympic Qualifiers. Why do all the other regions get a straight-up internal fight for the regional spot but the Asian teams have this strange mixed tournament? If you must do it this way, then at least the Asian winner should be taken out of the pool first (like effectively happens for all the other regions) rather than afterward.
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Post by vball20 on May 29, 2012 15:29:58 GMT -5
The point is, of course, that Serbia would rather see SERBIA in the Olympics, and Japan would rather see JAPAN in the Olympics. They could have played straight up, and the winner goes.... Or they could have made a deal -- Serbia guarantees Japan two sets if Japan guarantees Serbia the win. That would mean nothing was left to chance. It's not about wanting Thailand out of the Olympics, it's about a guarantee of getting into the Olympics yourself. Did they do this? I have no idea. The rules need to be changed so that this scenario can't happen. Any time there is any potential incentive to throw a game there will be questions asked about whether it happened. The idea of a 3-2 win giving 2/1 points instead of 3/0 sounds like a good idea, but it leads to this outcome. I think a win should be a win and a loss should be a loss, regardless of how many sets are played. Even if there were no intentional collusion, once Japan won two sets they were in, while Serbia still needed that third set. If nothing else this gives Serbia more motivation than Japan in the fifth set. They also should clearly separate the Asian tournament from the Olympic Qualifiers. Why do all the other regions get a straight-up internal fight for the regional spot but the Asian teams have this strange mixed tournament? If you must do it this way, then at least the Asian winner should be taken out of the pool first (like effectively happens for all the other regions) rather than afterward. second that. FIVB always rule in favor of these Asian teams. Very annoying.
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Post by Reach on May 29, 2012 18:26:52 GMT -5
Thailand shouldn't worry about what other teams did. They should have focused on their own play and winning the right to go to the games by their performance and not pray that another teams loss would get them into the Olympic games.
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