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Post by vball808 on Apr 5, 2009 18:57:27 GMT -5
Wow, how have the mighty have fallen. The hawaii volleyball program is completely in the toilet. Mostly due to the fact mike wilton is still coaching. He needs to be fired. All i hear from people is how terrible he treats the players and how he's lost his mind. Mike wilton and the coaching staff have done an awful job recruiting. They finally got 2 good players this year (Gus tuaniga and Steve hunt). The past 3 years, they have gotten nobody good but Ric cervantes (who wasn't even on the website for the recruits coming in, because he finally got a scholarship this year, it was in the paper). The only recruit left from last years class is Jarrod Lofy, wow, thats bad. The recruiting class 4 years ago would have been really good, but matt rawson blew out both of his shoulders and is still coming back and matt vanzant left hawaii due to personal issues. Walker, dyer, lofy, and zemljak are developmental projects and they have barely developed. Walker and dyer both get up, but they aren't being coached on how to play volleyball, its apparent because it seems like they are lost at times. Thats just the recruiting issues. Now i've been hearing that mike wilton is apparently playing the 2nd team players over the first team guys now (it was said on the radio during the ucla match). Can anyone at the ucla game confirm that? All i know is that cervantes and clar didnt play at all the 2nd night, rawson played in 2 games, and carney played in 1. It looks like he's just giving up on the season because they're out of the playoffs once again. He benched an all american (cervantes), it must have been his shoulder or something, cus that makes no sense or unless the 2nd team statement is true? All i know, from an outsider looking in, is that this is embarrassing us Hawaii fans and he needs to go. Anyone else care to reflect or comment on this embarrassing and horrible season?
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Post by up2u on Apr 6, 2009 13:37:24 GMT -5
HERE IS MY TAKES ON THE PROGRAM
ITS ALL ABOUT RECRUITING.
BRING BACK THE EUROS. The Euros were the best players, best students and the fans loved them. Katz, Breuer, Leoni, Miladinovic, Theocharidis, Zemet, and Milo. They were older, more experience and understood the game. Also, throw a little "Latino Salsa" into the mix with Jorge Alifonso (All Time Fan Favorite), Jose Jose and Azenda. The Hispanolies were head cases: Jorge was a Wilton's biggest head case, Jose Jose kepted on getting beat up my his She-Man girl friend Lilly K, and Pedro was Hawaii's all time cry baby. On second thought forget about the Hispanolies. YOU NEED TO BUILD THE HAWAII PROGRAM AROUND THE EUROS. ONE MIDDLE AND ONE OUTSIDE. Also, Hawaii Athletic Department needs to make sure that the Euros on in compliance with NCAA regulations. The "Costas Fiasco" could have been avoided. Make him sit out a couple of games, forfeit a couple games would have appeased the NCAA. Hawaii AD and Wilton did not handle that situation well - they actually screwed it up. If this was basketball and the school lost a National Championship the first guy gone would be the Head Coach and then the AD. Not in Hawaii.
RECRUITING THE LOCAL BOYS. Face it you're not going to get the Punahou and Iolani Kids. Their parents paid a lot of $$$ to put their kids into private prep schools so that they can go to mainland private schools such as Stanford and USC. Its a private school thing. Look even UCLA is not getting the top Hawaii players. Who was the last good player UCLA got from Hawaii - Parker Smith and he was a bust.
Clay Stanley and Tony Ching are the shinning example of Local Boys staying home and becoming stars. Stanley was a big time project with outstanding volleyball genes. I know he wasn't much of a student, but the Hawaii coaches should have convince him to stay his senior year. That team with Clay would have won the NCAA Title that year - they almost did without him. They lost to UCLA at Provo in the conference championship. Ching walked on and red shirted. The Kid busted his ass for Hawaii and became an All American. He also had his problems with Wilton. Another players was Aaron Wilton, its not easy being the 'coach's son". What a great player he was for the Bows.
Getting back to the Private School Thing. The boys powerhouse club has always been the Outrigger Canoe Club. Again players from this club come from the private schools. OCC has a pipeline to these players/schools. You need to have another 'Powerhouse Club' that recruits and develops local talent from the public school kids. The current clubs in Honolulu - are run by "Daddy Volleyball" coaches. You need club coaches with college experience. Even Dave Shoji had a girls club "Asics Rainbow" as a feeder club to his program (well he used to). But then Dave has more scholarships to give. Wilton never developed such a club. When was the last time you saw Wilton at a high school or club match. You need to inspire the local talent to want to play for Hawaii. The Shoji does a great job inspiring the local talent to come to Manoa. In October was at a girls middle school championship game between Kam and Iolani and who was sitting in the stands - Dave. If Tony Ching or Allen Allen ran their own boys club, don't you think families would send their sons to play for these guys. I would.
RECRUITING SO. CAL BOYS. Always get your setters for So. Cal. Hawaii's great sitters were all So. Cal Boys: Vaughn, Pichel, Kimo and Beckwith. So. Cal boys played on the beach and come from great club programs. These guys were great team players. So. cal has abundance of setters who would love to play Hawaii.
Again with limited scholarships you're not able to offer the mainland kid much funds to play for Hawaii. But good recruiting can bring these kids to the Islands. Hawaii took Kimo and Brian away from UCLA. Good recruiting is knowing what your recruit is all about. With mainland kids you can't expect them to red-shirt and sit a couple of years and develop. Its too much a financial burden on their families. You're not going to get the blue chip players that way. They need to know that they can start their 1st or 2nd years with the program. You need Impact Players. I know its a 'crap shoot' when it comes to recruiting, but Hawaii has not done a good job in that department lately. You only need 2 or 3 good players every year to build a good program. Its like basketball.
Recruiting is a sales job. You need a head coach who can sell his program to a recruit. When my son was recruited by Long Beach State I attended a recruiting dinner with Alan Knipe. He's a great salesman who believes in his program, and a very personable guy. I was impressed. Face it. Long Beach State is a dump but Knipe can recruit the players. Wilton's persona is his biggest problem - he's not the kind of guy I'd want to have a drink with and 'talk story'. Too much a Marine/Mormon Elder no personality. When they say the team/players are a reflection of their coach its true. Lately, Hawaii volleyball has been that.
ALL PAU WITH THE KINE TALK. You can sell the University, the Arena, the Fans, the Island Life, but you can't sell me on Mike Wilton as a coach. He had a great run in the past. The program 'stinks' and it doesn't look like its going to get better.
There is talk that the University is going to cut the program. That is not going to happen. That is just political BS.
The program needs to make a change. A new coach is needed to energize the program. The mystic of playing volleyball for the University of Hawaii is still there, but it needs a new coach. I'd like to see Allen Allen (Hawaii Great) or Reed Sunihara (UCLA - Cincinnati) as a head coach.
Winning is everything. Hawaii is no exception. The fans and sponsors will come. We need a dynamic coach to make it happen.
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Post by chinho on Apr 7, 2009 10:06:38 GMT -5
somebody should send the post from above to the AD of Hawaii. This guy know what he's talking about.
he should be the next head coach or at least head of recruiting.......
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Post by ucsdfan on Apr 7, 2009 11:23:05 GMT -5
That has to be the most well-thought, insightful post I've read on VT. And that's saying a lot, because there have been some great threads.
Recruiting Euros in hard economic times might not be as viable as it once was, but keeping the local talent and pulling more so Cal kids to the Island makes sense. That can only happen with a complete change in the coaching staff.
The writing on the wall for this downfall has been there for at least four years, starting with Kawika Shoji choosing Stanford over UH (if UH was even in the picture for more than a few seconds). That said more about the state of Hawai'i volleyball than anything else. You mentioned the unwritten rule of private-to-private school (which happens often), but there are the Brent Asukas and Brendan Prahlers out there too. If you hire a coach with Punahou or Iolani ties, then you might just manage to keep the Shojis and McLachlins home.
When it comes to recruiting, you need to invite the east coast kids out during the dead of their winter (if only the timing of recruiting season worked out that way). Let the island sell itself. The thing about playing for Hawai'i more than anywhere else (maybe BYU is close) is that you have diehard fans who give volleyball players hero status. That needs to be sold, because a hormone-loaded 17-year old boy is going to be affected by attention and adulation. They get to feel what only football and basketball players back home feel. Hawai'i volleyball has so many selling points, but as has been stated a few times, the worng salesman.
I am not a Hawai'i volleyball fan, but I have learned to respect the Hawai'i fans so deeply that it really saddens me to see the best fans in the game get short changed in terms of their product. The fact that they still show up in large numbers when UH plays at UCSD, UCI, UCLA, etc... speaks volumes of the great fanbase. UH needs to get its act together before they lose that automatic love.
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Post by robonthemic on Apr 7, 2009 12:22:15 GMT -5
up2u, you've hit the nail on the head, my friend. Seeing the Hawaii teams of the late 80s (when they were "The Bows") and the dominance they had in the old MPSF (Burt DeGroot division, and I can't remember the other one), they were a team that was highly competitive and entertaining. Your post of all the Euros brought back some great memories. Those guys hammered and they were great for the game of vball.
If any Hawaii Administrators have read your post and take heed to your advice I hope you at least get a consulting fee.
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Post by setaone on Apr 9, 2009 5:45:17 GMT -5
Wilton's record speaks for itself. .653 winning percentage overall and .639 in the conference. According to my rough calculation, this puts him at top 4th or 5th coach in the MPSF. Sure, he's struggled in the past 3 seasons - but check out his record pre-2007. hawaiiathletics.com/documents/2009/1/5/mvb-notes.pdf?id=328The American writer Elbert Hubbard said, "The man who is anybody and who does anything is surely going to be criticized, vilified and misunderstood." The price of leadership is criticism, abuse and misunderstanding. But, the criterion of greatness lies in being able to take constructive criticism and ignore that which is malicious."
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Post by roy on Apr 9, 2009 15:20:51 GMT -5
Wilton's record speaks for itself. .653 winning percentage overall and .639 in the conference. According to my rough calculation, this puts him at top 4th or 5th coach in the MPSF. Sure, he's struggled in the past 3 seasons - but check out his record pre-2007. hawaiiathletics.com/documents/2009/1/5/mvb-notes.pdf?id=328The American writer Elbert Hubbard said, "The man who is anybody and who does anything is surely going to be criticized, vilified and misunderstood." The price of leadership is criticism, abuse and misunderstanding. But, the criterion of greatness lies in being able to take constructive criticism and ignore that which is malicious." Why should we look pre-2007? Wilton was the coach during those seasons as well. Fact of the matter is that Wilton has not performed. While we can't expect to be at the top of the MPSF each year, there is no reason why the program that can offer the full 4.5 scholarships has a losing record and cannot place in the top 8 of a 12 team conference. And while Wilton does have a good winning percentage, the problem is that other programs have advanced while the Hawaii program has not. And again, part of it goes back to the coaching style of Wilton. Not a lot of players have stayed all 4 years under Wilton.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 9, 2009 15:27:26 GMT -5
up2u, you've hit the nail on the head, my friend. Seeing the Hawaii teams of the late 80s (when they were "The Bows") and the dominance they had in the old MPSF (Burt DeGroot division, and I can't remember the other one), they were a team that was highly competitive and entertaining. Your post of all the Euros brought back some great memories. Those guys hammered and they were great for the game of vball. If any Hawaii Administrators have read your post and take heed to your advice I hope you at least get a consulting fee. Actually, UH really wasn't that competitive in the old WIVA (pre-MPSF). They were good, not great. I believe they made the conference finals one year, that's about it. And Wilton wasn't the coach back then, it was Alan Rosehill. UH didn't reach the NCAA tournament until 1995, Wilton's 3rd year with the program. And they have NEVER won an MPSF conference title. Never. Ever.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 9, 2009 15:29:08 GMT -5
If Wilton's gonna continue to dial-in his effort and not grow the program, then he needs to step down soon before he completely tanks what was once a black program in the UH Athletic Dept. If the trend continues, UH men's volleyball will go from black to red in terms of the bottom line.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 9, 2009 15:34:35 GMT -5
Actually, I'd like to see Chris McLachlin coach UH. He retired from Punahou awhile back, if his health and recovery are good, he'd be a great coach for UH. Bring in some technical help from qualified assistants, and you have an automatic pipeline to Outrigger and Punahou/Iolani/etc. - you might not get the cream of the crop to stay home, but you can get alot of the other talent to play for UH.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2009 15:48:20 GMT -5
Right now the AD is preoccupied with getting a new womens basketball coach
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Post by setaone on Apr 9, 2009 17:56:18 GMT -5
Wilton's record speaks for itself. .653 winning percentage overall and .639 in the conference. According to my rough calculation, this puts him at top 4th or 5th coach in the MPSF. Sure, he's struggled in the past 3 seasons - but check out his record pre-2007. hawaiiathletics.com/documents/2009/1/5/mvb-notes.pdf?id=328The American writer Elbert Hubbard said, "The man who is anybody and who does anything is surely going to be criticized, vilified and misunderstood." The price of leadership is criticism, abuse and misunderstanding. But, the criterion of greatness lies in being able to take constructive criticism and ignore that which is malicious." Why should we look pre-2007? Wilton was the coach during those seasons as well. Fact of the matter is that Wilton has not performed. While we can't expect to be at the top of the MPSF each year, there is no reason why the program that can offer the full 4.5 scholarships has a losing record and cannot place in the top 8 of a 12 team conference. And while Wilton does have a good winning percentage, the problem is that other programs have advanced while the Hawaii program has not. And again, part of it goes back to the coaching style of Wilton. Not a lot of players have stayed all 4 years under Wilton. Roy, Regarding your question: Why should we look pre-2007? You answered your own question with, "Wilton was the coach during those seasons as well". It indicates to me that he is capable of producing winning results and has a proven record of that. All Hawaii needs is for them to bring in some schmuck who really tanks the program into the abyss. UCSB comes to mind. There's a saying, "Careful what you wish for because you just might get it".
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Post by roy on Apr 9, 2009 19:02:21 GMT -5
Roy, Regarding your question: Why should we look pre-2007? You answered your own question with, "Wilton was the coach during those seasons as well". It indicates to me that he is capable of producing winning results and has a proven record of that. All Hawaii needs is for them to bring in some schmuck who really tanks the program into the abyss. UCSB comes to mind. There's a saying, "Careful what you wish for because you just might get it". Sorry, my mistake. I was editing my post and didn't finish my thought correctly. What I meant to say was that we shouldn't ignore post-2007. If anything, we need to put more emphasis on it as other programs are stepping up. UCSB is not necessarily a good example. It's their coach's first year and right now, they are ahead of Hawaii in the standings. UCSB is working with a whole new staff. Hawaii only lost one senior from last year and was supposed to return 6 starters (5 + the libero). If anything, they should be doing better than UCSB. And the coaching job at Hawaii wouldn't be a tough sell. There were coaches who were eyeing out this position. Dave Deuser from Lewis had mentioned that he wanted to be considered for the Hawaii job when Wilton retired. Granted, this was before the Lewis scandal in 2004. Given the pay scale for this position and the noteriety of the program, Hawaii can certainly attract viable candidates. And a new coach couldn't possibly do much worse than Hawaii currently being 11th place in a 12 team league.
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Post by bunnywailer on Apr 9, 2009 19:27:20 GMT -5
Okay, so I did a little bit of research. Here are some interesting facts: - Wilton's contract expires June 30 - UH Athletic Department is in dire financial straits and may have to cut one men's sport Found in this article from February 2009: www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20090220/NEWS05/902200371/1001Excerpt here: Donovan said cutting a sport would be a last resort if the economic picture doesn't improve. Under questioning by UH President David McClain and board members, Donovan said that men's swimming and diving, baseball, men's tennis or men's volleyball would be leading possibilities.
UH last cut a sport when it dropped women's track and field in 1985 to add softball. The last men's sports cuts were track and field and wrestling in 1977.
UH currently has 19 NCAA sports, 11 for women, seven for men and co-ed sailing.
Because of NCAA and Western Athletic Conference requirements, "Only one men's program (can be cut) and it can't be football or men's basketball," Donovan said.
The NCAA has a formula for a minimum number of sports a school must offer to retain Division I membership, and UH could not have fewer than six to meet it. UH can't drop a women's sport until it comes into compliance with Title IX, the federal law on equality in education.
The WAC requires members to field teams in football, men's and women's basketball and women's volleyball. Baseball and tennis are WAC sports but not required. Men's volleyball and swimming and diving compete outside the WAC.
The contract of men's volleyball coach Mike Wilton expires June 30.
So here's my opinion on the matter: - Wilton has no intention of having his contract renewed for next year. - There is a strong possibility that men's volleyball could be on the chopping block. - The motivation to perform is zero for the current coaching staff, who are already eyeing their next job or retirement.
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Post by swingaway on Apr 9, 2009 22:24:30 GMT -5
>> So here's my opinion on the matter:
- Wilton has no intention of having his contract renewed for next year. - There is a strong possibility that men's volleyball could be on the chopping block. - The motivation to perform is zero for the current coaching staff, who are already eyeing their next job or retirement.
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retirement has to be the only option. Who would be interested in Wilton? Or a staff that is built on his ideas?
UHI should not drop the program but Wilton should be a memory.
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