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Post by StanfordFan on Aug 11, 2006 12:42:42 GMT -5
www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-beach11aug11,0,5668118.story?coll=la-home-sports Interesting article. Part of what I like about beach volleyball is just being able to saunter up to the beach anytime and catching a few matches. I plan to do so this weekend. I can't think of any amount of money I would be willing to pay to do so. Maybe $1 or $2. Certainly not $20.
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Post by gobears on Aug 11, 2006 15:49:04 GMT -5
I say move the other two outside of summer months and charge.... and leave Manhattan in Aug. as is. See how it goes. Maybe charge $10 for the newly charged for seats the first year...if it sells out/fills us, charge a bit more... Basically, it would be dumb imo to remove these 3 tourneys from the AVP circuit. So you gotta figure out a compromise of some kind.
And while they are at it, they need to get back onto Main Beach in Santa Cruz, or if necessary one of the other area beaches around there. Silly stuff.
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Post by bigfan on Aug 11, 2006 16:42:52 GMT -5
AVP Might Move Three Events By Peter Yoon, Times Staff Writer August 11, 2006
Summertime on Southern California beaches has long been known for blue skies, surfers and bikini-clad bodies. But one staple of the beach lifestyle may soon be on its way out.
The AVP Pro Beach Volleyball Tour is considering moving three of its unprofitable events off local beaches because of a dispute with the California Coastal Commission over how many fans can be charged for admission.
Under one scenario the AVP is considering, the Huntington Beach Open, Hermosa Beach Open, and the Manhattan Beach Open — beach volleyball's crown jewel, which begins today — would all be gone next year, The Times has learned.
Another option calls for the AVP to reschedule those events before Memorial Day or after Labor Day, to circumvent Coastal Commission regulations for that time period, as it did with its Santa Barbara tournament.
But there is no guarantee the commission would grant more such permits.
"Our Southern California events are the most economically challenging on our schedule," said Leonard Armato, AVP commissioner. "The rules that are in place make it difficult for us to turn any Southern California event into a sustainable business."
The Coastal Commission code dictates that no private entity can charge admission for events on a public beach without its approval.
Armato estimates the AVP spends about $1.2 million to stage each local event, including temporary seating, TV production costs and prize money. AVP sponsors such as Crocs, Bud Light and Gatorade pick up some of the tab, but the tour loses close to $1 million in each Southern California event, he said.
AVP events draw 7,500-10,000 spectators a day. If the tour could charge $20 per person, it would add $450,000 to $600,000 in revenue, moving the tournaments closer to break-even, he said.
In 1993, the Coastal Commission amended its no-charging policy for temporary events, such as an AVP tournament, which allows the AVP to charge for 24% of its seats at its main court.
Currently, at the three local, summertime AVP events, the tour charges admission for 24% of the seats in its 3,135-seat center court stadium, generating revenues of about $70,000 over three days. Admission is free at the 14 other outside courts.
The AVP is also not allowed to charge for parking and can't sell alcohol on the beach. "To make these events profitable, we need access to all streams of revenue," Armato said.
And that means charging more spectators for admission, but the Coastal Commission isn't budging.
"I can't see a circumstance where the commission would allow them to charge for the entire area," said Peter Douglas, executive director of the Coastal Commission. "Our concern is that the greatest number of people have free access to a public beach."
The commission's 24% rule, however, isn't applied consistently. When Cirque du Soleil makes its occasional visits to the Santa Monica Pier, there are no free seats for the general public. But at the U.S. Open of Surfing in Huntington Beach two weeks ago, admission was free.
At the AVP tournament in Santa Barbara, the courts are fenced in and all spectators are charged admission fees. The Coastal Commission allowed that because the tournament was in May, outside the main summer season.
Heal the Bay Executive Director Mark Gold said that the prospect of Southern California beaches without volleyball tournaments would be like "Wimbledon without tennis," he said.
"Clearly, the presence of the AVP is a huge benefit to anyone who cares about the beach and Southern California lifestyle," Gold said. "Them leaving would be nothing short of tragic."
But the AVP has been struggling financially for years. AVP Inc. has not turned a profit since before it filed for bankruptcy protection in 1998. Armato took over in 2001 and set in motion a long-term turnaround plan.
Last year, Armato took the company public. But the AVP still lost nearly $9 million on $15.6 million in revenue in 2005, and its stock is currently worth less than $1 a share.
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Post by Pirate VB Fan on Aug 11, 2006 17:34:26 GMT -5
Obviously they need to have a large area that can sort of see the court for standing room only. They claim the SRO area can hold three times as many people as the seats can, so then they can charge for all the seats,
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Post by fingrbustr on Aug 11, 2006 18:11:14 GMT -5
I think it is ridiculous that the AVP cannot charge legally for the tourneys on the public beaches during those time spans. Southern California -- and its volleyball fans, more specifically -- typically possesses an above-average level of affluence. While a fee of $20 might make me balk at first, I wouldn't be opposed to paying a general admission charge and then having to pay ramped-up costs for more desirable seating, as one would for almost any "professional" event.
I hope I speak for the majority when I say that it is illogical that the tour NOT charge for admission to its events. Of course I like going to see the "free" show (who doesn't like free), but for the athletes to even remotely approach what other professional athletes make AND for the tour to gain economic might/credibility, I can't see the AVP NOT charging admission. Simple as that. Some dollars made on admission, lots on advertisement, some on concessions, etc...just no way a major sport can afford to showcase/grow when they aren't charging admission.
Armato is doing a great job bankrolling right now, but if he doesn't figure out a way for this thing to get in the positive he won't play daddy warbucks forever. Holly ain't getting younger, so the end might yet again be near. He's a smart guy -- he's not going to go on losing $$$ forever.
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Post by fingrbustr on Aug 11, 2006 18:15:44 GMT -5
The more I think about it, the more it makes my blood boil. Why are socal AVP fans so darn spoiled?! What's wrong w/ "paying" to attend an AVP event? Who cares if the tournaments started out as free events? Stop being cheap, vball fans. Period.
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Post by gobears on Aug 11, 2006 18:22:38 GMT -5
Some can pay higher prices, some lesser depending on their seats. The problem with summer dates is the Calif Coastal Commission that you can't charge for more than 24% of the seats I think the article said. The AVP is not going to get any changes in the Coastal Comm I don't think, so the AVP needs to work around it.
Add more seats, change some dates, start charging some and then each year increase the price a bit....
Armato will sell his shares of the AVP and stop managing it, if it doesn't get into the black, so rather than arguing till kingdom come, changes need to be made quickly...you can always adjust down the line....but just hollering at the Coastal Commission or digging in heels is just not going to work.
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Post by Will Rogers Beach on Aug 11, 2006 18:58:40 GMT -5
We just got in from watching the Manhattan Beach Open today. We saw some great matches. We're going back again tomorrow for some more.
I, for one, am willing to pay an entrance fee to this event. Times have changed. This has grown to a major sporting event and one of the most popular sports in the Olympics.
I've always wondered why they don't charge here in SoCal at all. After reading the article, now I know why.
Like many of you, I think it is simply ridiculous that the AVP can't charge for these events in SoCal. It's not surprising that they're always in the red since not only is the general admission for free, they can't sell beer at the beach either.
I would rather pay $20 or more than not have them here at all. It will cost me much more money to drive to Santa Barbara or fly somewhere else. The AVP has every right to move the events somewhere else where it is profitable. If it has to survive, it needs to make that business decision. But it would be a shame if no events will be played in SoCal. It would be a great loss!
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Post by StanfordFan on Aug 11, 2006 20:15:59 GMT -5
I find it interesting that people have no issue with going onto public space, blocking it off, and then charging to get in. If you want to charge, fine. Get off the beach. Go to the Home Depot Center where the FIVB has its event every year and charge your little head off.
Here's the other thing I find questionable--Manhattan, Hermosa, and Huntington losing money? Maybe on costs alone, but I guarantee you AVP is getting a big fat check from NBC. They don't need a big honkin' stadium in the middle of the beach. That's for TV exposure. So get them to pay for it.
For those who support charging a fee, there should be no public beaches. Pay only. And for every one Southern Californian who is affluent, there are plenty more who are living near poverty.
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Post by fingrbustr on Feb 21, 2007 15:37:41 GMT -5
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Post by beachman on Feb 21, 2007 21:38:31 GMT -5
Ah yes, my favorite people, the California Coastal Commission....Tree-huggers who spend far too much of their time picking slivers from their forearms! This whole issue has been pending for some time now but there are places along the water where they don't need coastal commission permission to put on a beach VB tournament, and one of them is in parts of Long Beach! ;D
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Post by OverAndUnder on Feb 22, 2007 10:44:54 GMT -5
I find it interesting that people have no issue with going onto public space, blocking it off, and then charging to get in. If you want to charge, fine. Get off the beach. Go to the Home Depot Center where the FIVB has its event every year and charge your little head off. Here's the other thing I find questionable--Manhattan, Hermosa, and Huntington losing money? Maybe on costs alone, but I guarantee you AVP is getting a big fat check from NBC. They don't need a big honkin' stadium in the middle of the beach. That's for TV exposure. So get them to pay for it. For those who support charging a fee, there should be no public beaches. Pay only. And for every one Southern Californian who is affluent, there are plenty more who are living near poverty. The problem is that the average citizen no longer has [and never really did have] any concept of what it means for a particular resource to be "public", whether it's something tangible like land, or something intangible like the radio spectrum. To most people, "public" just means "something owned by the government".
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Post by bigfan on Feb 23, 2007 13:12:17 GMT -5
Politicians may drive out one of the classic tournaments in all of volleyball.
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Post by Wolfgang on Feb 23, 2007 13:17:26 GMT -5
You can't pay me to watch beach volleyball.
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Post by beachman on Feb 23, 2007 14:38:20 GMT -5
You can't pay me to watch beach volleyball. I kind of agree.....would much rather watch the indoor game....real volleyball!
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