|
Post by D. B. Cooper on Oct 23, 2006 12:31:50 GMT -5
Given, I wasn't there but I can understand. It seems in volleyball, like other sports, certain coaches and programs like Texas get treated better by the refs. They've earned it by being good year in and year out. No different than LeBron or Jordan getting the calls in the NBA. So when you're the underdog like OU, you know you're going to have to fight tooth and nail and cry bloodly murder to at least get a "fair" shake when finally you have a real chance for victory. Even if it's just in your own head. It just means so much. Not saying it's right or wrong but I can undrstand.
|
|
|
Post by vbobsessed on Oct 23, 2006 12:52:54 GMT -5
while I see you dont really like Santi's "zero respect for the officiating".....im sure you would have loved Elliots throwing of his clipboard here in Norman and that wasnt directed at his players but at the officials I was responding on a thread entitled "Oklahoma" and quoting a poster that admired Restrepo's passion. My comments were on topic. If you want to start a thread about Elliott's "passion", good luck. I'll rip him a new one too when he acts like a mad man.
|
|
|
Post by cougvb on Oct 23, 2006 14:08:12 GMT -5
Oklahoma played BYU two years ago. I remember watching the match and thinking, how do parents let their daughters play for this jerk? He never sat down, seemed to want all the attention on himself, no call by officials was without his loud objections, etc. Don't remember him yelling at his players, but his behavior toward officials really turned me off, and it seemed like he wanted to always be in the spotlight.
|
|
|
Post by foreignball on Oct 23, 2006 14:11:56 GMT -5
Given, I wasn't there but I can understand. It seems in volleyball, like other sports, certain coaches and programs like Texas get treated better by the refs. They've earned it by being good year in and year out. No different than LeBron or Jordan getting the calls in the NBA. So when you're the underdog like OU, you know you're going to have to fight tooth and nail and cry bloodly murder to at least get a "fair" shake when finally you have a real chance for victory. Even if it's just in your own head. It just means so much. Not saying it's right or wrong but I can undrstand. Unfortunately this is very true not only in NCAA vball and NBA and not only in the US. It works exactly this way in any sports competition all over the world. I can prepare a long list of events where “undergod” teams were denied by the refs but hey, $ rules everywhere…For us, the fans it is a win or loss for our team while some other people lose/make a lots of money depending on the outcome.
|
|
|
Post by Phaedrus on Oct 23, 2006 19:06:00 GMT -5
I have seen the large Colombian coach for nine years now and it is amazing to me the amount of passion and fire that the man maintains about the game.
If you were to ask his former players from East Stroudsburg, they would disdainfully tell you that the man has gone soft, that he doesn't show a fraction of his passion that he used to when he was in Division II. That, was when he was a nutcase, but he has grown and matured as a person and a coach, but you are never going to put that fire out.
The man wears his love of the game on his sleeves, maybe if the officials love the game half as much as Santiago does then they might be able to call a decent match. I know there are refs who treat their jobs as a job and take pride in the fact that they'd never played the game as a player. What a waste of good air.
Now, to more waste of good air. cougvb. Yes, Santiago calls all the attention to himself, he is out there working the refs and keeping the pressure off of his team and fighting for them, because there is a mutual respect between him and his players. He is working the refs because he is trying to keep the team focused and not distracted by BS calls. Does he show up the other team? Does he yell at the players on the other team? Does he jaw at the opposing coach? Then sit down and enjoy the show.
As for Jo Schmitt, she was pretty fiery when she got to OU, she really didn't need to learn from the large man. Same with the rest of the crew. Parents are actually pretty entertained by his courtside manners, they know he wants it bad and that type of life lesson does not come easily. You have to be totally passionate about the game to play for the man.
Basically you show up to OU as a recruit, you are either pumped to play for a real human being with all the foibles, temperaments, and emotions associated with being a human being, or you can go play for a statue. Your choice.
Couple of comments:
1) In the incident cited by oukaes, Jerrit threw the clipboard and it almost hit one of the OU ball girls. Now the kid is scared to death of the court and now refuses to work any more matches. Great role model. 2) I didn't realize Steve Hind came from Oklahoma. He took over at Benedictine in Atchison Kansas in the spring and started coaching one of my former club players. He prompted resigned a week before pre-season for some unknown reason. (Well, there is a good reason.)
|
|
|
Post by cougvb on Oct 23, 2006 19:19:48 GMT -5
Now, to more waste of good air. cougvb. Yes, Santiago calls all the attention to himself, he is out there working the refs and keeping the pressure off of his team and fighting for them, because there is a mutual respect between him and his players. He is working the refs because he is trying to keep the team focused and not distracted by BS calls. Does he show up the other team? Does he yell at the players on the other team? Does he jaw at the opposing coach? Then sit down and enjoy the show. My bad-didn't know I needed permission from you to express my opinion. In answer to your questions: Yes, he does show up the other team and everyone else in the gym-all attention is on him. No, never saw him yell at other team. Yes, he about has a coronary if the other coach dares question a call on Oklahoma. Question to any refs out there: When you have a coach like this, who "works" the refs, questions every call etc-is it their advantage-do you want to give him a call to try to shut him up, or do you think he's an a_ _ hole and try your hardest not to do him any "favors".
|
|
|
Post by Phaedrus on Oct 23, 2006 19:31:33 GMT -5
Now, to more waste of good air. cougvb. Yes, Santiago calls all the attention to himself, he is out there working the refs and keeping the pressure off of his team and fighting for them, because there is a mutual respect between him and his players. He is working the refs because he is trying to keep the team focused and not distracted by BS calls. Does he show up the other team? Does he yell at the players on the other team? Does he jaw at the opposing coach? Then sit down and enjoy the show. My bad-didn't know I needed permission from you to express my opinion. In answer to your questions: Yes, he does show up the other team and everyone else in the gym-all attention is on him. No, never saw him yell at other team. Yes, he about has a coronary if the other coach dares question a call on Oklahoma. Question to any refs out there: When you have a coach like this, who "works" the refs, questions every call etc-is it their advantage-do you want to give him a call to try to shut him up, or do you think he's an a_ _ hole and try your hardest not to do him any "favors". Calling attention to yourself is showing up the other team? Wow, you really have to get thicker skin. Have you ever played pickup doubles in open play? That is verbal abuse when you get toasted by the other team, and it never ends. Yelling at refs the way he does really doesn't mean much in the entire annals of of verbal abuse history. Um, refs are not supposed to be playing favorites. Yet they do, all the time. Its human nature, Big Bad Ranked team playing little sisters of the poor, Big Bad Ranked team gets a few gimmes. All that Santiago does is a gentle reminder that Oklahoma is not chopped liver and the calls need to be even. I am sure you don't notice these things because the BYU coaches never complains about anything the referees calls.
|
|
|
Post by cougvb on Oct 23, 2006 19:44:39 GMT -5
My bad-didn't know I needed permission from you to express my opinion. In answer to your questions: Yes, he does show up the other team and everyone else in the gym-all attention is on him. No, never saw him yell at other team. Yes, he about has a coronary if the other coach dares question a call on Oklahoma. Question to any refs out there: When you have a coach like this, who "works" the refs, questions every call etc-is it their advantage-do you want to give him a call to try to shut him up, or do you think he's an a_ _ hole and try your hardest not to do him any "favors". Calling attention to yourself is showing up the other team? Wow, you really have to get thicker skin. Have you ever played pickup doubles in open play? That is verbal abuse when you get toasted by the other team, and it never ends. Yelling at refs the way he does really doesn't mean much in the entire annals of of verbal abuse history. Um, refs are not supposed to be playing favorites. Yet they do, all the time. Its human nature, Big Bad Ranked team playing little sisters of the poor, Big Bad Ranked team gets a few gimmes. All that Santiago does is a gentle reminder that Oklahoma is not chopped liver and the calls need to be even. I am sure you don't notice these things because the BYU coaches never complains about anything the referees calls. Holy crap-we agree on something! Refs are human-they're not supposed to favor one team over the other, but they are human. My question is, does it really help to badger the refs, or does it just get your a reputation as a whiner who questions everything. Nope, never played open doubles. Does that make me less knowledgeable? I'm just a frumpy Mormon Woman who knows nothing and cooks and cleans house all day. BTW-can't stand the BYU coach, but compared to Elaine Michaelis, he complains a lot-just not in as obnoxious a way as OU coach does. Yes, I think that's the word I'd use to describe the Oklahoma coach-obnoxious. He's having a great season-hope they carry one of those heart machine defibullators with the team at all times.
|
|
|
Post by Phaedrus on Oct 23, 2006 20:06:53 GMT -5
My question is, does it really help to badger the refs, or does it just get your a reputation as a whiner who questions everything.
A ref can take the badgering as whining, or the ref can be on his toes and maybe pay attention to the game so that they can avoid the wrath of Santiago.
Nope, never played open doubles. Does that make me less knowledgeable? I'm just a frumpy Mormon Woman who knows nothing and cooks and cleans house all day.
I guess it does make you less knowledgable as far as trash talking and showing people up is concerned if you didn't play open play doubles, so yeah, you characterized it correctly.
BTW-can't stand the BYU coach, but compared to Elaine Michaelis, he complains a lot-just not in as obnoxious a way as OU coach does.
You don't like Jason? He is one of the good guys in volleyball, you really ought to get out more. Maybe you ought to switch to a more gentile game, like tiddly winks or polygamy.
|
|
|
Post by cougvb on Oct 23, 2006 20:27:46 GMT -5
I used to think Jason was a great guy, also. Look at my posts when the job was open-I backed Jason all the way. Hmmm-he must have done something to change my mind. Nah, I just woke up one morning and decided he was a phony. But that's old news. Ouch-polygamy? Sounds like a good thread on the non-volleyball part of VolleyTalk. BTW-I'm pretty sure I led the state in yellow cards as a high school coach the past few years. Been known to give the refs a pretty hard time.
Do people in Oklahoma like the song and movie "Oklahoma" or does it iritate you?
|
|
|
Post by Gelatinous Mass on Oct 23, 2006 21:43:00 GMT -5
#1 Sanitago doesn't stand on the sideline, he is 1 ft off the line all game long. #2, Texas got no calls in games 3 and 4 regardless of how vaunted their program is or how the refs treat them diffrerently. #3 Santiago did yell through the net at Texas players, Engle hit a ball into the antenna and Santiago raised his fist and shook it at her.....so what exactly are we talking about here? Fire and Passison, yes, living on the edge, yes....but let's not make the landing too soft here....and I like Santi..he's a really good guy but way, way too energetic on the sidelines....don't forget, this is a coach who got a yellow card when his team was winning in 3 last week.
|
|
|
Post by Phaedrus on Oct 23, 2006 22:28:31 GMT -5
I used to think Jason was a great guy, also. Look at my posts when the job was open-I backed Jason all the way. Hmmm-he must have done something to change my mind. Nah, I just woke up one morning and decided he was a phony. But that's old news.
Um, that sound like a conversation you need to have with your therapist. Maybe
Ouch-polygamy? Sounds like a good thread on the non-volleyball part of VolleyTalk. BTW-I'm pretty sure I led the state in yellow cards as a high school coach the past few years. Been known to give the refs a pretty hard time. Well good for you. Maybe you can work out some of your irrationality issues.
Do people in Oklahoma like the song and movie "Oklahoma" or does it iritate you?
I wouldn't know, I don't live in Oklahoma. Ad hominem attack foiled due to ignorance.
Santi's style isn't for everyone, you can dislike him all you want, but when you start saying BS like: " I remember watching the match and thinking, how do parents let their daughters play for this jerk? He never sat down, seemed to want all the attention on himself, no call by officials was without his loud objections, etc. ."
That tells me how entirely clueless you are. Have you ever talked to his players? His former players? His former colleagues? His rival coaches? Yeah, didn't think so.
Judgement without knowledge= cluelessness.
|
|
|
Post by cougvb on Oct 23, 2006 22:37:23 GMT -5
Do people in Oklahoma like the song and movie "Oklahoma" or does it iritate you?
I wouldn't know, I don't live in Oklahoma. Ad hominem attack foiled due to ignorance.
Santi's style isn't for everyone, you can dislike him all you want, but when you start saying BS like: " I remember watching the match and thinking, how do parents let their daughters play for this jerk? He never sat down, seemed to want all the attention on himself, no call by officials was without his loud objections, etc. ."
That tells me how entirely clueless you are.
Lighten up, buddy. Trying to inject some lighthearted conversation into your very defensive thread. Why am I clueless because I said I wouldn't want my daughter playing for him? Oh yeah-because I never played pick up"Open Doubles". Read the thread above yours-seems someone else shares my view-they must not have ever played "Open Doubles" either. NEW RULE-NO ONE MAY POST OR HAVE AN OPINION UNLESS THEY HAVE PLAYED "OPEN DOUBLES". YOUR OPINION IS WORTHLESS, YOU ARE NOT WORTHY TO POST ON VOLLEY TALK. DON'T BOTH US WITH YOUR DRIVEL. I can picture you and your Open Doubles buddies sitting around a table making "Man Laws" like in the beer commercial.
|
|
|
Post by simplycurious on Oct 24, 2006 3:15:10 GMT -5
In the words of Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
|
|
|
Post by itsallrelative on Oct 24, 2006 7:08:34 GMT -5
Hey, Phaedrus, you played Open doubles? wow. I didn't know. or, rather, doubles in open play?
and I remember your, um, "attempts" at trash talking.
just for the record, I've been none to ride refs. especiallly over ball handling. Although other refs (RW for example) I've been all over about everything, including how they "control"(term used loosely) the court during warmups. Sometimes I look back, after the match, and wonder what I was doing--I just got caught up in the emotion of the match. And I ref in club, a lot, so I've been on the other side of things, as well--(and I'm pretty sure I would ref collegiately, if I wasn't coaching).
I think perhaps the thing that is missing, that makes Santi's behavior make sense, is that a lot of it is his personality and temperment. He gets excited, and worked up, doing whatever he is doing, be it working one of his ever-so-popular camps in St. Louis, working the sideline as a coach, to talking about his family, to telling one of his awful jokes over wings and brews at Michaels(figure out who I am, yet, Phaedrus?).
And, I believe, the refs who work down there know that, prior to going in.
Oh, well, just my $.02.
|
|