Oh, And Another Thing.....

[2c]

bearclause said:

I know someone who was a football coach at the high school where he taught PE and (I think) biology. He got tired of that and took over as girls' VB coach and learned on the job. He's been a volunteer coach at the college level for years as well as an assistant on a US national team. A lot of coaches I know of have never played at the college level.

Dunning is still trying to pass off that "volunteer coach" thing at Stanford?

[BearClause]

2c said:

bearclause said:

I know someone who was a football coach at the high school where he taught PE and (I think) biology. He got tired of that and took over as girls' VB coach and learned on the job. He's been a volunteer coach at the college level for years as well as an assistant on a US national team. A lot of coaches I know of have never played at the college level.

Dunning is still trying to pass off that "volunteer coach" thing at Stanford?

What the heck. Al Roderigues. I checked his official bio, and I guess he "worked" with the US Men's National Team, but was never a full-time coach there. He's also been assistant women's coach at Cal State Hayward. I don't think he's ever been the **official** volunteer assistant coach, but always a #1/2 assistant coach.

He was the Girl's VB coach at James Logan HS, where the joke (accurate as it may have been) was that Ruben Nieves was his assistant. He's always been a full-time schoolteacher (he may be retired now). I think he had to stop coaching HS girls' VB before he was allowed to coach NCAA women's. I asked him once, and he said he'd never gotten paid to coach college VB.

There's a whole slew of people who had all sorts of backgrounds before they became college coaches. Rich Feller was a softball coach at Palo Alto High School once upon a time. That was brought up when Arizona State's Patti Snyder-Park coached her last match in Berkeley, and it was brought up that Coach Feller was her SB coach there.

[AntennaMagnet]

To VB Coach: In response to the Drew Robertson story, I'd like to say she fully met her academic potential at NWU and she was not on the path to All American status anyways so what more athletic potential are we talking about ?

I'm not sure that the issue of becoming a consumate setter is always dependent on a specialized assistant or head coach. Firstly, you have to have a "coachable" player. Secondly, you have to have a setter that is not frustrated by changes advocated by the coach or, in NWU's case, habitually new assistant coaches. Thirdly, you have to have a setter who is willing to work relentlously to change her style. Drew had none of these characteristics, thus, I would guess that a specialized coach would have done nothing to help her meet her potential.

More importantly, however, I think coaches now like fully developed, out of the box setters, such as those produced by SPRI. Mrs. Butler is an exceptional setters coach. Nevertheless, when you take a SPRI setter, what you start with is pretty much what you end up with during a 4 year stint.

[Gorf]

bearclause said:

gorf said:

Most NCAA D1 teams already have 4-5 assistants.

Up to 3 paid assistants, a volunteer assistant, and an student assistant along with the head coach.

Three head/assistant coaches, one volunteer assistant coach, and any number of student assistant coaches. I've gone over this before. Any other position that doesn't fit into those can't be considered a "coaching" position (like a manager). A student assistant coach (these days) is required to be an injured player who can't continue playing, and within the "five year eligibility" window.

All of which still leaves teams with at least 4 assistants and one head coach.

Players that use their eligibility in 4 year but are still taking classes toward graduation I've seen referenced at graduate assistants.

Minimally the head coach, 2 paid assistants, and the volunteer assistant give a coaching staff plenty of coaches to teach all skill position as long as they take the time to get appropriate people in each of those positions.

If they don't have appropriate people in each of those positions it is a choice made by the head coach / school that minimizes their ability to coach all skill positions. Not something caused by player specialization.

[BearClause]

gorf said:

bearclause said:

Three head/assistant coaches, one volunteer assistant coach, and any number of student assistant coaches. I've gone over this before. Any other position that doesn't fit into those can't be considered a "coaching" position (like a manager). A student assistant coach (these days) is required to be an injured player who can't continue playing, and within the "five year eligibility" window.

All of which still leaves teams with at least 4 assistants and one head coach.

Players that use their eligibility in 4 year but are still taking classes toward graduation I've seen referenced at graduate assistants.

Minimally the head coach, 2 paid assistants, and the volunteer assistant give a coaching staff plenty of coaches to teach all skill position as long as they take the time to get appropriate people in each of those positions.

I've heard of "co-head coaches" and associate head coaches, which sort of fits into that 3 head/assistant coaches allowance. I'm not sure what the rules were a few years back, but "student assistant coach" is a specific position in the current NCAA rules. It has to be someone who was a student-athlete and is no longer able to play due to medical reasons. As I read the rules, it's unclear if that has to be at the same school or even in the same sport.

The term "graduate assistant" is rather murky. The feeling I get is that some programs with lower funding levels designate their #2 assistant as a "graduate assistant coach". Some programs seem to bring in student managers with the title of "graduate assistant".

[VBfan]

is there a rule about a "student coach?" i know that some colleges have a student coach but he is a guy coach for the womens team? Are there any rules on that?

[dontknowjack]

This post makes it sound like Drew didn't accomplish anything. Doing some digging, she was an All-Big Ten freshman pick, finished the all-time career assists leader at NU, and took a dead-last program and set them to back-to-back NCAA tourneys...

[BearClause]

luigi689 said:

is there a rule about a "student coach?" i know that some colleges have a student coach but he is a guy coach for the womens team? Are there any rules on that?

I'm of course referring to the D-I level. Right now Cal has two "student managers" who are/were players on Cal's men's club team. They're not coaches, and the things they seem to do include moving around equipment and standing in front of players during serving warmups keeping volleyballs from hitting the players.

In reading the NCAA Manual, it seems that a player who's gone through four years of eligibility in four years could be allowed a "student assistant coach" in a fifth year.

This is the specific "student assistant coach" definition from the NCAA D-I manual:

11.01.4 Coach, Student Assistant. A student-coach is any coach who is a student-athlete who has exhausted his or her eligibility in the sport or has become injured to the point that he or she is unable to practice or compete ever again, and who meets the following additional criteria: (Revised: 1/12/04 effective 8/1/04)

(a) Is enrolled at the institution at which he or she participated in intercollegiate athletics;
(b) Is participating as a student-coach within the five-year eligibility period (see Bylaw 14.2);
(c) Is completing the requirements for his or her baccalaureate degree or graduate program; (Revised: 1/12/04 effective 8/1/04)

(d) Is a full-time student (see Bylaws 14.1.8.2 and 14.1.8.2.1.4), unless during his or her final semester or quarter of the baccalaureate program, per Bylaw 14.1.8.2.1.3; (Revised: 1/12/04 effective 8/1/04)

(e) Is receiving no compensation or remuneration from the institution other than the financial aid that could be received as a student-athlete and expenses incurred on road trips that are received by individual team members; and (Revised: 1/9/96)

(f) Is not involved in contacting and evaluating prospective student-athletes off campus or scouting opponents off campus and does not perform recruiting coordination functions (see Bylaw 11.7.1.2). (Revised: 5/26/06)

[VBCOACH]

antennamagnet said:

To VB Coach: In response to the Drew Robertson story, I'd like to say she fully met her academic potential at NWU and she was not on the path to All American status anyways so what more athletic potential are we talking about ?

I never said anything about Drews' academics. I never said anything about Drews' performance.

What I said was:

Someone on this board once observed that former Northwestern setter Drew Robertson never developed to her potential because Northwestern didn't have a setting coach during her tenure as a player.

I loved watching Drew play. A great recruit...glad she came to Northwestern from California. A great player for Northwestern.

[romeo]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. A successful coaching staff MUST include the following components:

1) A good recruiter

2) A good motivator (bring out the best in the individual players on the team and the team as a whole)

3) A good gametime strategist

4) A good technical trainer (not just a cheerleader) - most especially for setting and blocking.

With each piece missing from this picture, the program weakens.

[baldyballer]

I think a good coach has lots of experience. You learn to train all aspects of the game if you are around it long enough. That's wh I get discouraged when I see young kids just graduating college getting head coach jobs. It takes time to develop good coaching skills.

[Deleted]

I want to know: How do we _know_ Salima isn't coaching?