|
Post by AntennaMagnet on Jan 10, 2007 14:57:51 GMT -5
I am still perplexed why the Pac 10, Big 10 and other major conferences have so many male head coaches. In this supposedly more enlightened era, why are these conferences allowing the glass ceiling to persist ?
|
|
|
Post by BearClause on Jan 10, 2007 15:04:24 GMT -5
I am still perplexed why the Pac 10, Big 10 and other major conferences have so many male head coaches. In this supposedly more enlightened era, why are these conferences allowing the glass ceiling to persist ? Half the Pac-10 head coaches have over 20 years experience each, and they started off in an era where most coaches were men. There have been successful female head coaches in the Pac-10 (Cindy Fredrick and Patti Snyder-Park) who left for various reasons. Fredrick seemed to have a revolt on her hands as she left, and Snyder-Park resigned so that she might have more time to raise her family. For whatever reason, Sue Woodstra didn't convert her success at Pitt into winning seasons at Cal. Nancy Somera might have had one good year at Oregon State before moving on the South Carolina. Cathy Nelson?
|
|
|
Post by silversurfer on Jan 10, 2007 15:04:32 GMT -5
I am still perplexed why the Pac 10, Big 10 and other major conferences have so many male head coaches. In this supposedly more enlightened era, why are these conferences allowing the glass ceiling to persist ? How do you know that it's because of a "glass ceiling"?
|
|
|
Post by AntennaMagnet on Jan 10, 2007 15:38:08 GMT -5
100% male head coaches in Pac 10
70% male head coaches in the Big 10
By definition, a glass ceiling.
|
|
|
Post by simplycurious on Jan 10, 2007 15:39:22 GMT -5
I don't believe you're seeing "a glass ceiling" (as you put it) existing in these conferences. The tougher the conference, the more demands are placed on a head coaches' time (recruiting, training, fund-raising, public relations & speaking engagements, travel other than recruiting - but did I mention RECRUITING!?) and many women can't put that amount of effort into the job for a long period of time. Now if it sounds like I'm taking a shot at women, I'm not. Instead, I'm just pointing out that it's very hard to have a family, keep up with the kids and maintain the rigors that those positions demand (if you want to be successful and keep your job) in those conferences. I'd also include the Big Twelve and the SEC (particularly due to the amount of travel in-season with them being so spread out and with them playing a double-round robin schedule now) along with the Pac-10 and Big Ten. There are exceptions to this, Mary Wise and her husband have managed to work it out, however those situations are often rare and depend upon what the other spouse does for a living. Some coaches (like Christy Johnson) can make it work because their husband is in the same line of work (in Christy's case, at the same school, sitting three feet from her in the same office). Again, these situations are rare and add to a fewer number of women in head coaching positions at those levels. Now, I'm sure more people will post examples, etc. (I've been typing this for a while and many things have come up to slow me down since I began composing it), however these thoughts came immediately to mind when I saw your post.
|
|
|
Post by OverAndUnder on Jan 10, 2007 15:53:40 GMT -5
Even in 2006, university presidents are men, ADs are men, corporate executive sponsors are men, alumni benefactors are men, student athletics fans are men (non-student fans are typically mixed). If you are going to obtain the finances, facilities, scheduling, assistant/training staff, recruitment (travel) resources, media exposure, and fan attendance to have a successful program, you will find the environment much more responsive if you are a man. Not to mention the fact that if you are married, unless your husband is involved or has been involved with college athletics, or is just exceptionally understanding, you may not get the kind of homefire support to help you make it through another year. I have known or met many male college volleyball coaches, and more than a few of them depend on their wives to keep everything else running while sometimes also being the “gofer” for team-related errands. Good luck finding a husband who is willing or able to be the man behind the scenes except for the handful of times a year when he receives polite applause at a banquet or department event.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2007 15:57:39 GMT -5
If you want proof of what simplycurious is saying, just look at the numbers at D2 and below. MANY more women coaching there. Why? Less travel and fewer demands on their time.
For example, I think Minnesota had something like 3 women apply for the last opening there -- out of 50+ candidates? Something like that.
|
|
|
Post by AntennaMagnet on Jan 10, 2007 16:08:06 GMT -5
Simplycurious, don't you think your commentary is a touch chauvanistic and off the mark ? I mean, if all the women professionals in the US, such as doctors, lawyers and business women, had the view that "women don't have the desire to put that amount of effort into the job..." then I doubt we would see women make up 50 % of these professions as they do today.
I also think you overstate the pressures of volleyball coaching. It's a wonderful lifestyle and I am sure each Pac 10 and Big 10 coach blesses each day that their contract is renewed.
|
|
|
Post by donneyp on Jan 10, 2007 16:18:08 GMT -5
I agree with SC's point about demands on their time. I talked to a mid-level DI coach last year who's administration approved a second full-time assistant coach (low paying, no benefits, but it was a second full time assistant at least) to help the coach deal with running a program while having two young kids.
Well, even with the assistant, the woman left her program at the end of the season because she wanted to take care of her family. Without the kids, maybe she sets herself up for a job in the SEC or Big 10, but how many women make that sacrifice?
Mary Wise's husband is the announcer for the UF men's basketball team. As I understand it, he's more involved with the kids than the average dad.
Now, my friend's brother-in-law played major DI football for a very old coach who continues to win despite not being nearly involved as he used to me. In football, he can have 300 coaches to review film and recruit kids, and he is a figurehead who calls the top recruits, raises money and just kind of supervises what goes on in his program. If women's volleyball would allow 7 coaches on the bench, I think you would see more women taking a similar approach to coaching volleyball but we are probably a ways from reaching that point.
|
|
|
Post by JT on Jan 10, 2007 16:38:52 GMT -5
Simplycurious, don't you think your commentary is a touch chauvanistic and off the mark ? I mean, if all the women professionals in the US, such as doctors, lawyers and business women, had the view that "women don't have the desire to put that amount of effort into the job..." then I doubt we would see women make up 50 % of these professions as they do today. Do they? The AMA says that in 2001 the percentage of female physicians had rise to... 24.6% The ABA says that in 2000 the percentage of female lawyers had risen to ... 27% www.mommd.com/celebratewomeninmedicine.shtmlwww.abanet.org/marketresearch/lawyer_demographics_2006.pdfThis doesn't prove that the analysis about job demands and pressures is correct, but it doesn't look as if VB coaching by women in the "powerful" conferences is that much lower than the specific professions you mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by AntennaMagnet on Jan 10, 2007 18:27:48 GMT -5
50% of graduating medical and law students in the 21st century are female.
The AMA and ABA numbers you quote include dinosaurs from the last century, a time when women were rarely admitted to professional schools for many of the biases we all know about and should no longer accept.
If the argument is that women with children can't hack the Div I schedule and balance family life then the University needs to provide appropriate support systems to correct this problem. Child rearing should not be a barrier to Div I coaching.
I think the first step in reducing the work load of Div I coaches would be to eliminate recruitment and replace it with a NCAA centralized match program where student applicants are matched with one of their top 5 collegiate choices.
|
|
|
Post by BearClause on Jan 10, 2007 18:46:16 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by bearwatch on Jan 10, 2007 19:55:44 GMT -5
I've heard administrators and coaches who are hiring volleyball coaches say out of 100 applicants 4 might be women. And you can bet all 4 of them will be considered greatly. But the facts are many, many more men are fighting to get the jobs. The Big 12 (11) has 4 females and 7 males. Somewhat better then the other 2 conferences but the fact is the men out number the women because of the sheer amount of men applying for the jobs out there. Not rocket science or something unfair going on here, i don't think. (Also, the Big 12 was rated the #2 conference this year, so use the Pac 10 and Big 12 when looking at the top 2 conferences:)
|
|
|
Post by AntennaMagnet on Jan 10, 2007 20:16:07 GMT -5
Bearclause, you make the point that univeristy administrators use to wash their hands of responsibilty for not being able to hire women and minority faculty...."the applicant pool is too small to find good candidates". I recall a near riot at Duke when the administration used this line for justifying their woeful under-representation of women and minority faculty.
There are several ways to solve the problem of under-representation of women coaches in the major conferences and other Div I programs.
Firstly, ADs can identify "rising stars" , hire them as assistant coaches and then elevate them as head coaches. It's a sort of "grow your own" strategy.
Secondly, if you wish to recruit candidates from the assistant coaching ranks, ADs can create resources for helping women with child rearing duties such as day care or stipends for au pairs / home sitters. If they can cough up millions for the football coach, a few grand for subsidizing family care would be a great and noble investment.
Thirdly, as stated previously, I would reduce travel time related to recruitment and replace recruitment - oriented processes with a match program that pairs student applicants with universities (similar to the way physicians get matched with training programs).
Maybe others have a few more ideas. But I still find the number of women head coaches in the Big 10 and Pac 10 deplorable ! If Notre Dame, Duke and Georgetown can make it work, why can't the Pac 10 and Big 10 do so also ?
|
|
|
Post by GatorVball on Jan 10, 2007 20:20:14 GMT -5
Yep, that's Mary's husband. He's the color analyst for all the UF basketball games on the radio. They definitely have a unique situation in that they both work for UF, but their seasons have very little overlap.
|
|