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Post by itarusvolei on Mar 23, 2007 17:22:09 GMT -5
Just finish reading a "cute" little addition to the USAV website; it was series of trivia questions, an attempt to connect the general public with members of the national team. Not a bad idea, but then I started thinking of my own questions for USAV.
1. Who does Tom Pingel (who along with Doug Beal are calling the shots...unfortunately) intend to have set after Ah Mow retires. Because Kehoe, MCginnis, Hunter et al are not interationnal level setters. The best young setter with international (medal winning) potential is Murphy. Why isn't she with the team now?
2. Why did the men's team who receives the bulk of their funding from USJO GIRLS volleyball get to move to Anaheim and not the women?
3. Who hired Tom Pingel? And why? Of all the club directors to chose from why someone with NO international experience? Can you imagine Cuba, Brazil, Russia hiring a club coach to direct their National team program?
4. When will USAV start to understand that the best players need to be on the senior team as soon as they are capable?; and that winning medals at Youth or Junior World's doesn't mean anything; the only thing that matters is the Olympics and we have been horrible for the past 20 years.
5. Why is our second assistant coach a former club coach with no high level Div I college let alone international experience?
6. When will Ogonna learn how to pass and play defense like the good international hitters with similar athletic ability?
7. When will they start training Barboza to be a setter? She will NEVER be able to carry the load of players like Kilic, Gamova, Ruiz, Glinka, Togut, Zetova, Godina.
8. Why did the USA women's team train 9 straight weeks without a break before Athens Games?
9. When will we have an American be a head coach of our national team?; and please don't mention Maclaughlin! Gold Medaled Squared; what a joke, if not for a 26 year old professional he'd still be in the middle of the PAC 10. But you never know, I see Pingel dode on MAC all the time.
10. Anyone ever notice how Tom Pingel gravitates, to the "now" programs (staff and players); Nebraska in 2000, LBSU 2001, USC in 2002/3, Stanford (but this always the case), UW, and now Nebraska?
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Post by Phaedrus on Mar 23, 2007 17:47:11 GMT -5
1. Who does Tom Pingel (who along with Doug Beal are calling the shots...unfortunately) intend to have set after Ah Mow retires. Because Kehoe, MCginnis, Hunter et al are not interationnal level setters. The best young setter with international (medal winning) potential is Murphy. Why isn't she with the team now?
Uh, some 15 year old from Circle City?
2. Why did the men's team who receives the bulk of their funding from USJO GIRLS volleyball get to move to Anaheim and not the women?
Hello!!! Whose running USAV?
3. Who hired Tom Pingel? And why? Of all the club directors to chose from why someone with NO international experience? Can you imagine Cuba, Brazil, Russia hiring a club coach to direct their National team program?
Someone who has Pingel has pictures of doing unnatural things with a menagerie farm animals.
4. When will USAV start to understand that the best players need to be on the senior team as soon as they are capable?; and that winning medals at Youth or Junior World's doesn't mean anything; the only thing that matters is the Olympics and we have been horrible for the past 20 years.
Really? Olympics matter?
5. Why is our second assistant coach a former club coach with no high level Div I college let alone international experience?
He has pictures on Pingel.
6. When will Ogonna learn how to pass and play defense like the good international hitters with similar athletic ability?
When Ruben Acosta foreswears graft and payoffs.
7. When will they start training Barboza to be a setter? She will NEVER be able to carry the load of players like Kilic, Gamova, Ruiz, Glinka, Togut, Zetova, Godina.
When we run out of 5'9" setters.
8. Why did the USA women's team train 9 straight weeks without a break before Athens Games?
Because we had free gym time?
9. When will we have an American be a head coach of our national team?; and please don't mention Maclaughlin! Gold Medaled Squared; what a joke, if not for a 26 year old professional he'd still be in the middle of the PAC 10. But you never know, I see Pingel dote on MAC all the time.
When we get American coaches with consistent winning international records.
10. Anyone ever notice how Tom Pingel gravitates, to the "now" programs (staff and players); Nebraska in 2000, LBSU 2001, USC in 2002/3, Stanford (but this always the case), UW, and now Nebraska?
Uh yeah. I noticed, so what's your point?
A few more questions:
1) Why is Pingel allowed to ref college matches when it is a conflict of interest because he is trying to get some of these players to play on the national team and some of these coaches to coach in the feeder program.
2) Why is it that American outsides can't terminate or pass on an international level?
3) When is the AVCA going to start having international coaches like Selinger, Alberda, George, Karpol come and do a pre-convention seminar?
4) When will the USAV stop promising what they can't deliver with the High Performance Camps, where 99 % of the kids aren't going to make any kind of impact internationally and they aren't learning anything worth while.
5) When will the USAV give up on the Invitational?
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Post by silversurfer on Mar 23, 2007 18:05:14 GMT -5
Just finish reading a "cute" little addition to the USAV website; it was series of trivia questions, an attempt to connect the general public with members of the national team. Not a bad idea, but then I started thinking of my own questions for USAV. 1. Who does Tom Pingel (who along with Doug Beal are calling the shots...unfortunately) intend to have set after Ah Mow retires. Because Kehoe, MCginnis, Hunter et al are not interationnal level setters. The best young setter with international (medal winning) potential is Murphy. Why isn't she with the team now? You have all the answers, you tell us. What Doug Beal wants, Doug Beal gets. Pingel's been in the USA program for years. Why not Tom Pingel? When will you understand that the club, high school, and college ball don't care about the Olympics? That's actually a GREAT question. Ask John Dunning. As soon as they start training Rebecca Lobo to hit middle.. Because they knew you'd disapprove. As soon as the USAV wins the lottery to pay someone enough. And does no one remember the Great Mick Haley Experiment? Well, duh. You go where the talent is. |
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Post by usvolley on Mar 24, 2007 14:46:48 GMT -5
This is fun. My turn:
1. Who does Tom Pingel (who along with Doug Beal are calling the shots...unfortunately) intend to have set after Ah Mow retires. Because Kehoe, MCginnis, Hunter et al are not interationnal level setters. The best young setter with international (medal winning) potential is Murphy. Why isn't she with the team now?
Mcginnis, Berg, Engle all have international potential. That is why they are in the USA program. Certain aspects of our society, ie valuing education, does not allow for them to live at the Olympic Training Center and train with the National Team full time.
2. Why did the men's team who receives the bulk of their funding from USJO GIRLS volleyball get to move to Anaheim and not the women?
The altitude affects the mens game a lot more than the womens. Simple phsyics. I am sure the women's team will make the move sometime in the future.
3. Who hired Tom Pingel? And why? Of all the club directors to chose from why someone with NO international experience? Can you imagine Cuba, Brazil, Russia hiring a club coach to direct their National team program?
What club directors have international experience? Tom Pingel has made the USA pipeline what it is today with over 10 years in the USA Program. 10 years + is pretty good international experience. Try asking that question in the mid-90s.
4. When will USAV start to understand that the best players need to be on the senior team as soon as they are capable?; and that winning medals at Youth or Junior World's doesn't mean anything; the only thing that matters is the Olympics and we have been horrible for the past 20 years.
When will people understand/accept that because we (Americans) value education, we will not send our athletes to the National Team full time until they are out of college. Until then, they will train with the National Teams programs during the summer.
5. Why is our second assistant coach a former club coach with no high level Div I college let alone international experience?
If you read his resume on the website, it seems that he has worked with the National Team under Toshi and a lot of other USA teams (junior and youth) that have been to international competitions. It says he began in 2002 (5 years of international experience with the USA program). What other coaches in the USA have more than five years of international experience?
6. When will Ogonna learn how to pass and play defense like the good international hitters with similar athletic ability?
Why do people rely only on Ogonna? There are many capable outsides in this country that can play. They are in college.
7. When will they start training Barboza to be a setter? She will NEVER be able to carry the load of players like Kilic, Gamova, Ruiz, Glinka, Togut, Zetova, Godina.
Barbosa setting? This just shows your knowledge of high level volleyball. Pretty sad, but I will continue.
8. Why did the USA women's team train 9 straight weeks without a break before Athens Games?
From what I heard, they took a week off before the Olympics. They might have participated in the Grand Prix right before that week off, but every team that medalled in Athens participated in that event.
9. When will we have an American be a head coach of our national team?; and please don't mention Maclaughlin! Gold Medaled Squared; what a joke, if not for a 26 year old professional he'd still be in the middle of the PAC 10. But you never know, I see Pingel dode on MAC all the time.
From what I heard many americans were offered the job, but many turned it down. The pressure of qualifying, international travel (being away from your family for months), etc... tend to wear on people.
10. Anyone ever notice how Tom Pingel gravitates, to the "now" programs (staff and players); Nebraska in 2000, LBSU 2001, USC in 2002/3, Stanford (but this always the case), UW, and now Nebraska?
In what ways does he "gravitate" to championships teams? If he favors them, then maybe it is because mostly all of the players on those teams are from the USA pipeline (minus UW).
Try doing some more research before you make a fool of yourself. We should try to support our country's team rather than bash them.
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Post by adrimich on Mar 24, 2007 19:09:23 GMT -5
"We should try to support our country's team rather than bash them."
Amen to that!
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Post by doc on Mar 24, 2007 21:09:30 GMT -5
"We should try to support our country's team rather than bash them." Amen to that! A board of directors for a company supports the company but it doesn't keep them from asking tough questions of the CEO |
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Post by Murina on Mar 25, 2007 1:27:06 GMT -5
Wow... This post is classic! I have no idea who Murphy is. I'm not a big Kehoe fan, but she's growing on me slowly. McGinnis could be very good pretty quickly. I haven't seen enough of Hunter for an opinion. My personal favorite choices are McGinnis and Kamana'o. USA is actually very deep in quality choices to set the national team. Based on who they had available, Pingel seems like a reasonable choice, even when he didn't have much international experience (he may have been an international ref when he was hired by USAV). His training resume was right up the USAV's alley... The USAV needed someone who could build a large system to develop young players well - exactly what he had done with Circle City(?). Oh yeah, Russia and Brazil do hire club coaches to fill the same job... Cuba is such a small country that things work a little different. You think the USAV doesn't know this? Good luck getting the american kids out of college - they tried with Stalls and look where she is now. What do you have against club coaches anyway? You're really obsessed with where coaches started their careers... Phaedrus might be able to tell you how the Chinese coach got involved with coaching the national team... She won't. There is no connection between the ability to attack and ability to pass. Some people have both abilities, some don't. This is a basic concept in understanding motor abilities. The only two players you might compare Barboza to on this list are Kilic and Ruiz - and I think those two are a stretch. You picked a bunch of players who's primary job is attacking. Only 3 receive serve at all! I think a better list would include: Sassa', Hao, Zhou, Piccinini, Rosner. Gamova, Glinka, Togut and Zetova? Why not compare Barboza to a bunch of middles while you're at it? Because they couldn't get their players together any sooner! Honestly, these are some great questions!  Toshi wanted to train for a year before the Olympics, but the players need to make a living. You're making training for 9 weeks straight sound like a long time. I have news for you: to these players 9 weeks straight is business as usual. How about pre-2001? Oh yeah, Lyskevych and Haley weren't good enough for you... |
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Post by itarusvolei on Mar 28, 2007 10:42:02 GMT -5
Murina, I am sure you have knowledge of international level of competition, but Mcginnies, Kamano, and Kehoe are NOT good enough to set at the Olympic level. Thery are all great collegiate setters but that does not translate to international success. I have coached my country's national team for 13 years and coached professionally in many different countries, so IMHO the one person that could handle the job if she was trained for a long enough time is Barboza. She is quite tall for this position, athletic, a good blocker, and has good istincts; just not enough experience in this positiojn. I have had conversation with many national team coaches (Italy, Croatia, Netherlands, Cuban, Russian (pre-Caprara), many of which are glad that the USA powers that be keep her in the left position.
Tom Pingel is a club coach and nothing more, club as you know in the USA is not the same professional club in other countries; as many of those coaches reatain their senior team players to monitor them during professional season. How about picking someone, perhaps and ex Olympic player who knows the contributions needed to compete at Olympic level. How about Laurie Flachmeier, Debbie Green, Sue Woodstra, Kim Ruddins, Paula Weishoff, Debbie Brown; just not someone who sees jump and reach and height? How about someone who went through the program when it was at its pique. Why not hire Arie Sellinger to be somethig like GM who picks talent, instead he is now helping Chinese Men's team prepare for Beijing. Most likely because Al and Doug are not secure enough around to allow him to succeed.
Mick Haley annd Taras Lyskevic, please. Mick rode the tailcoat of Toshi, ask the players; and Tara's did have enough control over staff to have control over players.
As far as trainig for 9 straight weeks, this is my fault for not being specific enough with my comment, the 9 weeks was not the problem, perhaps it was the 16 straight says with NO break that may have resulted in poor performance. This I know as some American players were in my league last few seasons in Italy.
As far as the Chinese head coach everyone knows that he started as the Chinese NT trainer, not the phycical therapist but the coach who hits all the balls, but he also was coaching in high inetranational level before this time.
You are correct and incorrect between ability to pass and attack, But my point with Ogonna is that she had been in USA system for many years and is still not capable to receive, so where does the blame go? I have seen Ruiz train since she was 14 and know that its obvious that her ability to pass can be directed to coaching.
I just returned back to states but was able to see Champions League final (via Eurosport), and I will predict that Russia will capture Olympic gold medal in Beijing. I wish Gratcheva would make one more appearance in Olympics. But Gamova starting to reach pique of her ability.
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Post by mervynpumpkinhead on Mar 28, 2007 11:03:27 GMT -5
Murina, I am sure you have knowledge of international level of competition, but Mcginnies, Kamano, and Kehoe are NOT good enough to set at the Olympic level. Thery are all great collegiate setters but that does not translate to international success. I have coached my country's national team for 13 years and coached professionally in many different countries, so IMHO the one person that could handle the job if she was trained for a long enough time is Barboza. She is quite tall for this position, athletic, a good blocker, and has good istincts; just not enough experience in this positiojn. I have had conversation with many national team coaches (Italy, Croatia, Netherlands, Cuban, Russian (pre-Caprara), many of which are glad that the USA powers that be keep her in the left position. Tom Pingel is a club coach and nothing more, club as you know in the USA is not the same professional club in other countries; as many of those coaches reatain their senior team players to monitor them during professional season. How about picking someone, perhaps and ex Olympic player who knows the contributions needed to compete at Olympic level. How about Laurie Flachmeier, Debbie Green, Sue Woodstra, Kim Ruddins, Paula Weishoff, Debbie Brown; just not someone who sees jump and reach and height? How about someone who went through the program when it was at its pique. Why not hire Arie Sellinger to be somethig like GM who picks talent, instead he is now helping Chinese Men's team prepare for Beijing. Most likely because Al and Doug are not secure enough around to allow him to succeed. Mick Haley annd Taras Lyskevic, please. Mick rode the tailcoat of Toshi, ask the players; and Tara's did have enough control over staff to have control over players. As far as trainig for 9 straight weeks, this is my fault for not being specific enough with my comment, the 9 weeks was not the problem, perhaps it was the 16 straight says with NO break that may have resulted in poor performance. This I know as some American players were in my league last few seasons in Italy. As far as the Chinese head coach everyone knows that he started as the Chinese NT trainer, not the phycical therapist but the coach who hits all the balls, but he also was coaching in high inetranational level before this time. You are correct and incorrect between ability to pass and attack, But my point with Ogonna is that she had been in USA system for many years and is still not capable to receive, so where does the blame go? I have seen Ruiz train since she was 14 and know that its obvious that her ability to pass can be directed to coaching. I just returned back to states but was able to see Champions League final (via Eurosport), and I will predict that Russia will capture Olympic gold medal in Beijing. I wish Gratcheva would make one more appearance in Olympics. But Gamova starting to reach pique of her ability. To the best of my knowledge, Pingel hasn't coached club since the '90s. He's not stupid. He knows talent. As for setting, having Barboza suddenly change to setter would be stupid at this point. McGinnis is taller anyway, isn't she? As for hiring Laurie Flachmeier, Debbie Green, Sue Woodstra, Kim Ruddins, Paula Weishoff, Debbie Brown, to be the coach, most of those people you mentioned aren't interested in 1) taking a pay cut, 2) being away from their family for that long. What makes you think Green, a great setter trainer, could coach the national team anyway? |
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Post by itarusvolei on Mar 28, 2007 11:33:46 GMT -5
Forgive my English or not being terribly clear, I was nameing those past Olympians as those who could act as a GM similar to those that American Basketball, Football, and Baseball use to select talent not to coach national team.
As far as Barboza is concerned why not prepare her now for this position in 2012? USA is not in good shape after retiremnet of Ah Mow, Berg has quit, and from my experience Hutner and Mcginnis are not this level. If USA just wantes to compete perhaps these will be suitbale, but to medal I think it is not possible.
Russia has three great young tall setters that are the future after Sheshinina is done, although she is just 22 now.
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Post by Spikealicious on Mar 28, 2007 12:46:58 GMT -5
Time to turn the reigns over to Katie Virtue!
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Post by Murina on Mar 29, 2007 2:49:29 GMT -5
Well, we certainly have different opinions! I don't think you have supported yours very well.
McGinnis, Kamana'o et al. are not good enough to set an Olympic team yet. That much we can agree on.
I disagree that the reason is ability. The reason is their retarded progress due to playing in the NCAA. 20 hour a week of practice 32 odd (?) weeks a year from the ages of 18-21 just doesn't do enough to develop a national team setter. Robyn Ah-Mow and Lindsey Berg didn't walk off the NCAA court and into the starting lineup of the USA national team either. It took them a couple of years of training before they were able to crack the lineup. Even Misty May wasn't good enough to beat out Charlene Tagaloa right out of college. Could Misty have been a good setter at the NT level?
If you have the hitters, Marina Sheshenina can win an Olympic silver medal, and she is pretty far from Fernanda, Fafao, LoBianco, Feng...(just to be clear, I think Sheshenina is far superior now than she was in 2004). In 2002 USA won the silver at the World Championships with...........Jen Flynn setting. Jen Flynn is FAR inferior to the players I have mentioned athletically. Hell, so are Lindsay Berg and Robyn Aw Mow. So are LoBianco and Fafao for that matter (and Fludderus, Taka%*$#a...)! None of these guys can jump touch with Kamana'o and McGinnis! None of them can run with Kamana'o (except Taka%*$#a). McGinnis can run with any of them except maybe LoBianco and Taka%*$#a (and a younger Fafao), but running isn't McGinnis' thing anyway.
It's not like the USA women are playing like Brazil's men. A setter who can do what Ricardo does is not necessary. Show me a women's team that is depending on their setter to defeat the block. China was the only top team that was playing like that and as they've gotten younger and bigger on the left (and Zhou has been injured), even they are moving toward a slower more power oriented attack at times. Brazil plays that way when Sassa is on the floor, but when Mari replaces her Brazil slows to a very average tempo of attack and mostly depends on their attackers to defeat a probable double block.
If you think McGinnis, Kamana'o and the other NCAA setters are not good enough, imagine how many reps Barboza is behind? Hundreds of thousands at least!
There are an awful lot of people playing volleyball in the USA - the NCAA alone probably has more 18-21 year old volleyball players than all of Cuba, Serbia, Japan, Korea, the Netherlands... And you are telling me that Barboza is the ONLY player in the USA with the talent to medal in a major FIVB event? That is absurd! Two words: Jen Flynn!
As far as Pingle... I don't think USAV is counting on Pingle to judge talent. His main job is to set up the programs. He is an administrator. He doesn't coach the teams. I don't think he even picks the teams for the junior levels, although he probably has some influence. It is definately a falacy to say that ex-players would be in better in his position than he is. Some might, but there might not be anyone like that... Being an ex-player does not make one a superior judge of talent to someone who has not played. I would love to see Arie back in the USAV! I don't know first hand, but I understand that the reasons he isn't with USAV may be personal.
I'm having some trouble figuring you out...
In the first post on this thread, you seem to have deep knowlege of american volleyball and especially the people involved. You seem to know an awful lot about Tom Pingle's strengths and weakness and gravitational tendencies for example. You consider the USA as your country and this question seems pretty nationalistic:
"When will we have an American be a head coach of our national team?"
On the other hand you clearly don't have a good grasp of the dynamics of training in the USA, nor on the NCAA/USAV dynamic...
In both posts you clearly have some knowledge of world/european volleyball - even national team coaching experience (USA? But then the language wouldn't be a problem you claim it is). But you made some really odd player comparisons in the first post, and in the second you fail to take into account a lot of what has happened with regards to setters who have won medals recently. And in your last post you mention Sheshenina as the Russian setter, but she hasn't been the primary Russian setter since Caprara took over. Caprara clearly prefers Akulova.
I have to admit my mind is running, eliminating possibilities...
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Post by usvolley on Mar 30, 2007 14:47:37 GMT -5
Murina...You bring up great points. Itarusvolei...You seem to take different sides on ideas that have similarities.
"Moving players to positions that have no experience in those positions (setting) and having people in positions that have started out with no experience (criticizing USA's administration).
All coaches and members of administrations have to have a start somewhere. Tom Pingel may have started out in the "club scene", but he has been with USA Volleyball for over ten years. What you have to understand is that not only has he built experience through those ten years, but he has produced consistent NORCECA gold medal teams (in terms of evaluating the Junior talent). In 2012 we will see a complete national team full of players that have been brought up the pipeline that Tom Pingel has been a large part of.
If this team is not successful, then I think your arguement, Itarusvolei, will have some ground to stand on. However, until then, realize that the pipeline has produced consistent Gold Medals in the NORCECA zone (not all Tom Pingel's doing, but he has been in charge).
I do not think your idea on Barboza is a bad idea. With many years of experience anyone can improve at their position (similar to administration). I do, however, disagree with you in that Mcginnis and Hunter do not have potential to be a high-level international setter.
What National Team have you been apart of Itarusvolei? Is this just an angry coach from Mexico that has been at the bottom of NORCECA for a long time?
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Toshi wanted to train for a year before the Olympics, but the players need to make a living.