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Post by Gorf on Apr 9, 2004 22:06:34 GMT -5
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 9, 2004 22:10:59 GMT -5
Consider the source Gorf. The Europeans (Save certain allies) only care about America when American is saving their butts and doing their dirty work. If America acts in it's own best interest, it's evil?
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Post by Gorf on Apr 9, 2004 22:25:11 GMT -5
Are you leaving the country?
Your icon thingy appears to be broken..
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Post by Psychopotamus on Apr 10, 2004 15:09:08 GMT -5
Consider the source Gorf. The Europeans (Save certain allies) only care about America when American is saving their butts and doing their dirty work. If America acts in it's own best interest, it's evil? I think it depends on your perspective. If you define America's intentions by the majority maybe it's not evil. When you look at it from the perspective of the individual I think it is a problem. The problem is the same as with Vietnam. Many people feel we have outstayed our welcome in Iraq yet are still stationed there. So in that respect I don't think it is fair. The regime is tumbled, let them run their country. Maybe Bush think Iraq is a US territory. Has anyone bothered to ask?
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 10, 2004 22:43:39 GMT -5
I The regime is tumbled, let them run their country. Maybe Bush think Iraq is a US territory. Has anyone bothered to ask? Who would be them though? Certainly not those who wish to establish an Islamic state and an Islamic form of government ala Afghanistan. Democracy is due.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2004 12:56:54 GMT -5
Who would be them though? Certainly not those who wish to establish an Islamic state and an Islamic form of government ala Afghanistan. Democracy is due. Ok, BiK, what if an Islamic state is what the majority _wants_? Just one of the many wrong assumptions we continually make is that everyone wants to be like us. And why is it that a democratically elected leader such as Aristide is run out of Haiti by the U.S.? The rest of the world sees what you yourself continually state: everything we do is to advance our own self-interests--at least that is the first priority. You want to fight terrorism? SHOW the world we are the good guys rather than just saying we are.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 12, 2004 19:58:29 GMT -5
Ok, BiK, what if an Islamic state is what the majority _wants_? The rest of the world sees what you yourself continually state: everything we do is to advance our own self-interests--at least that is the first priority. You want to fight terrorism? SHOW the world we are the good guys rather than just saying we are. They won't get an Islamic state. American troops aren't dying so a breeding ground for terrorist and jihadists can be established. I don't care what the rest of the world thinks nor do I care whether or not America is perceived as the "Bad guys!" I don't care if the French like us or not. The US needs to do what it has to do to protect itself and if that means going to war under what could be perceived as false pretenses, so be it! If they don't like it, I don't care. Sing Kumbaya and hold hands with Gorf, and Islandgirl and stick your head in the sand. McCarthyism revisited.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2004 22:11:54 GMT -5
They won't get an Islamic state. American troops aren't dying so a breeding ground for terrorist and jihadists can be established. I know you aren't serious, but unfortunately American troops (and others) are dying WHILE a breeding ground for terrorists and jihadists is being established. Been there. Done that. This week we're filling in Dick Cheney's swimming pool and planting trees.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 12, 2004 22:34:33 GMT -5
I know you aren't serious, but unfortunately American troops (and others) are dying WHILE a breeding ground for terrorists and jihadists is being established. True, unfortunately. It makes me sick to hear of another American life lost. The US needs to get tough with these insurgents. Screw trying to win the hearts and minds of the people. America didn't invade Iraq to give the Iraqi people democracy. America invaded Iraq to remove a security threat. Policy and Military leaders need to get tough. Marines aren't trained to win the hearts and minds of people. It's inanity!
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Post by warriordudette88 on Apr 13, 2004 0:15:12 GMT -5
i don't think that the US will ever be able to achieve democracy in Iraq because of all the various groups that are trying to get foreign forces out of there. eventually all of the attacks on US forces and civilians will wear down the efforts of Bush.
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Post by Psychopotamus on Apr 13, 2004 1:03:36 GMT -5
The gripe I have is with the US playing police. It was one thing when there was a direct threat, but now there supposedly isn't one. Again, I'm not NSA so I can't say for sure, but I think it's hypocritical for the US to be imposing an influence, like a parent, because "we know whats good for you". I think it's arrogant for us to assume we know what is good for anyone else.
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Post by islandgirl on Apr 13, 2004 1:16:38 GMT -5
They won't get an Islamic state. American troops aren't dying so a breeding ground for terrorist and jihadists can be established. Unfortunately, the Americans are dying in that exact situation. You can't disregard the Iraqi's religion and history (and their place geographically in the world) and impose American ideals on them. That is a sure fire way to meet with resistance and resentment. Forcing things on people long term who may not want it is a lot harder than you imply. Didn't Hitler say that about Germany? Okie dokie. It's this kind of elitist/sleight of hand attitude that typifies the world view of America under Bush. Singing Kumbaya was okay but we really started rocking when we sang One Love and War. I can't wait for the trees to grow in Cheney's old pool area so I can hug them.
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Post by Psychopotamus on Apr 13, 2004 1:21:13 GMT -5
Didn't Hitler say that about Germany? Why does anyone always have the reflex to call Nazi? I mean Hitler wasn't such a bad guy. If you take away the racism, propoganda and violece all you have is a guy with a moustache who was a retired janitor.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 13, 2004 4:24:09 GMT -5
Unfortunately, the Americans are dying in that exact situation. You can't disregard the Iraqi's religion and history (and their place geographically in the world) and impose American ideals on them. That is a sure fire way to meet with resistance and resentment. Forcing things on people long term who may not want it is a lot harder than you imply. Didn't Hitler say that about Germany? Okie dokie. It's this kind of elitist/sleight of hand attitude that typifies the world view of America under Bush. Singing Kumbaya was okay but we really started rocking when we sang One Love and War. I can't wait for the trees to grow in Cheney's old pool area so I can hug them. BiK, you are just WAAAYYYY too easy. See you when/if you grow up. Until then, peace! You miss me already?
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Apr 13, 2004 4:30:45 GMT -5
The gripe I have is with the US playing police. It was one thing when there was a direct threat, but now there supposedly isn't one. Again, I'm not NSA so I can't say for sure, but I think it's hypocritical for the US to be imposing an influence, like a parent, because "we know whats good for you". I think it's arrogant for us to assume we know what is good for anyone else. America can't just leave the Country the way it is. There are too many factions (The Sunni's, Shiites, and Kurds) who are eager to pounce once the American troops leave. A stable form of government must be established before America pulls out. Iraq can't be used as fuse by jihadists in the powder keg we call the Middle East.
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