Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2019 22:26:23 GMT -5
"The Sopranos" must be the ONLY show in history which I can say had no likable/sympathetic characters, major or minor, and yet, still rocked. Well, Bobby Bacalieri was okay in that he reminded me of a poor stray dog who needed a home. Felt sorry for him. A reasonably decent guy who made his choice to join the mafia. But even he was borderline to me. They're all frikkin' sociopaths. Add Breaking Bad to that list now. And The Americans, for that matter.
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgang on Feb 10, 2019 22:28:48 GMT -5
I can't believe they are still defending the ending. It's very poorly done, whatever it meant. My guess? Chase didn't have a good ending so he just said what the heck. It does NOT hold together if it was supposed to be Tony's POV. And then kapowey. It's such a tragedy that some writers feel the need to make a big deal out of a series' ending. Why can't things end without any fanfare? The Good Wife ended without any fanfare. Heck, it didn't even feel like an ending.
|
|
|
Post by bigdfromla on Feb 11, 2019 20:51:24 GMT -5
I recently started watching the Sopranos on HBO-On demand. I am up to the last episode of Season 2. Excellent, excellent show!!! So many elements of brilliance to it. I will comment on the ending when I get to it!
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgang on Feb 11, 2019 21:24:52 GMT -5
The Sopranos is one of the funniest shows in TV history even though it's considered a drama.
|
|
|
Post by OverAndUnder on Mar 1, 2019 13:58:08 GMT -5
Having never seen one second of this show, I can only assume that it is way over-hyped and actually sucks. I was completely wrong. Perhaps the best drama series ever on television. Also, Tony is not dead. The ending is not abrupt because there's a sudden grassy-knoll mob hit from someone in the diner. The entire point of the series is an exploration of the lengths to which the human psyche justifies itself to itself, not based on lofty principles or even disturbingly problematic principles, but instead on the flimsiest of veneers applied retroactively in each moment to allow the psyche to never be forced to look to hard at itself. The mind of a sociopath can even look at itself with a wink and a nod at the idea that it might be a sociopath, but in the exact same way all the brutal put-downs and jokes the guys throw at each other but then take back with "hey I'm just bustin' your balls", the sociopath (especially when comorbid with an antisocial-narcissist PD) always dances back away from an actual confrontation with its own ultimate emptiness. We understand the geopolitical term, "failed state". Well, all the mobsters in this series, and most of their entourage of enablers (the wives and girlfriends and kids and friends) are "failed selves". Which leads into the entire point of the final song choice, and the way it ramps up right at the end. Tony - charming and handsome and charismatic though he may be, and even capable of stimulating people around him (including Melfi) into feeling real empathy and concern for him - is a complete sociopath all the way down to his ultimately hollow core, and sociopaths (and Personality Disorders) really do not change their stripes. Melfi is we the viewer. We live with Tony for six years and see his triumphs and troubles and can't help but attach to him and root for him, because WE are not disordered sociopathic selves (well, except for Wolfgang) to such a degree that we are incapable of real introspection and real empathy for others --- the very two things that Melfi tries hardest to bring Tony to achieve, and which all the way to the end of the last episode, he only produces in token outbursts of mimicked inward insight and mimicked concern over the consequences his actions have for other people. Which is why the last episode cuts the way it does. It's not that his body died, it's that the viewer must be left with an empty space during which our own introspection kicks in, we shake our heads to clear away the lingering charisma of Tony's mischievous smile and plucky boyishness, and into that empty space comes the realization that Tony hasn't changed one damn bit. The only thing that has really happened is what Melfi herself expresses to a colleague earlier in the series when she says something to the effect of, "I've helped him to be insightful and understand other people and his reactions to them, and I can't help but fear that all I'm doing is making him a more effective gangster". That is the final moment of the series. Tony doesn't stop believing, his family doesn't stop believing. The mob doesn't stop believing. All the murderers and thieves and con men and thugs in this show still see themselves as being the essentially good hardworking gosh-golly-gee heroes of "Don't Stop Believing" just trying to make their way in this f---ked up world. Their faith in their constructed narrative which insulates them from moral culpability for being the AGENTS of a large part of how their particular part of the world got f---ked up in the first place, is completely unshaken. The story cuts off, because we the viewer must eventually pass judgment and turn away in disgust, but we kinda can't and we really don't want to, because we don't want it to end; because we too want to believe that something changed, to tell ourselves that the characters understand themselves better, that some kind of moral growth occurred. But it didn't, and it is this very dissonance and its emotional discomfort that the cut off ending is specifically designed to amplify in the viewer.
|
|
|
Post by mikegarrison on Mar 1, 2019 14:37:31 GMT -5
It's like I just heard a voice from the grave....
|
|
|
Post by bigdfromla on Mar 18, 2019 0:28:47 GMT -5
I started watching the whole Sopranos series a few weeks ago, from the beginning. There are 86 total episodes in the series. I have seen 76 episodes and I have ten remaining. This is just an amazing show that has been totally worth the time invested in watching it. No one has acted in a role for a television series better than James Gandolfini as Tony Soprano. Just a spectacular cast and probably the best written show I have ever seen (I also loved Breaking Bad for the same reasons...I can see why Brian Cranston and Vince Gilligan have credited the Sopranos for setting the stage for a show like Breaking Bad). I also love the theme song..."Woke Up This Morning" by Alabama 3.
I am really looking forward to the last ten episodes and how it will lead to the much debated final scene. When the show originally aired, I didn't start watching it until the third season, then I saw it all the way through the final season 7, so I had missed a great deal of the first two seasons. Seeing the whole thing now from start to finish is a great way to experience this wonderful show.
I remember seeing the finale at the time it aired in 2007. I actually liked the ending at the time and disagreed with all of those that were so critical of it. Again, looking forward to seeing how the ending fits, having seen the series from start to finish.
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgang on Mar 18, 2019 12:36:41 GMT -5
"The Sopranos" must be the ONLY show in history which I can say had no likable/sympathetic characters, major or minor, and yet, still rocked. Well, Bobby Bacalieri was okay in that he reminded me of a poor stray dog who needed a home. Felt sorry for him. A reasonably decent guy who made his choice to join the mafia. But even he was borderline to me. They're all frikkin' sociopaths. Add Breaking Bad to that list now. And The Americans, for that matter. No, Breaking Bad's cast of supporting characters were likable. Ditto, The Americans. What are you smoking?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 12:39:39 GMT -5
No, they weren't. But I did watch one episode under the influence. Maybe they were likable in that one.
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgang on Mar 18, 2019 12:40:02 GMT -5
I started watching the whole Sopranos series a few weeks ago, from the beginning. There are 86 total episodes in the series. I have seen 76 episodes and I have ten remaining. This is just an amazing show that has been totally worth the time invested in watching it. No one has acted in a role for a television series better than James Gandolfini as Tony Soprano. Just a spectacular cast and probably the best written show I have ever seen (I also loved Breaking Bad for the same reasons...I can see why Brian Cranston and Vince Gilligan have credited the Sopranos for setting the stage for a show like Breaking Bad). I also love the theme song..."Woke Up This Morning" by Alabama 3. I am really looking forward to the last ten episodes and how it will lead to the much debated final scene. When the show originally aired, I didn't start watching it until the third season, then I saw it all the way through the final season 7, so I had missed a great deal of the first two seasons. Seeing the whole thing now from start to finish is a great way to experience this wonderful show. I remember seeing the finale at the time it aired in 2007. I actually liked the ending at the time and disagreed with all of those that were so critical of it. Again, looking forward to seeing how the ending fits, having seen the series from start to finish. I also love The Sopranos. However, it was a rocky start for me. I hated the first few episodes of the first season. Ditto The West Wing. But I'm glad I persevered because it was fantastic. I also had a rough time with Stargate SG1. The first few episodes were some of the worst I had EVER seen in my TV viewing history. I stopped watching. The wife continued. And then she said, "It becomes way way better. You should watch it." So, I did. And Stargate SG1 has become one of my favorite shows of all time, despite the ridiculousness of the plots. But it's often hilarious and the show's writers did all sorts of innovative and experimental things. Mind blowing...
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgang on Mar 18, 2019 12:47:18 GMT -5
No, they weren't. But I did watch one episode under the influence. Maybe they were likable in that one. You're on crack. Here are some likable characters in Breaking Bad: Mike Ehrmantraut Jesse Pinkman, the dude was a nice (albeit lost) guy Hank the DEA agent Gale the chemist who worked alongside Walter Gus Fring -- in the beginning, that is Saul Goodman, despite all his moral flaws RJ, Walter White's son
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 13:02:06 GMT -5
Right. Mike the likable hitman. Jesse the likable crackhead. Gus?? Gus??? Saul the likable shyster.
Oh, boy.
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgang on Mar 18, 2019 15:34:05 GMT -5
So, hit men, crackheads, and shysters can’t be likable? You have a one-dimensional view of people. I’m just going to blame it on the ennui.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2019 16:14:56 GMT -5
Of course the interesting thing here is, as mike points out, the resurrection of OandU. It's almost as if he's been watching The Sopranos for the last 5 years.
Watchable or interesting is not the same as likable.
|
|
|
Post by Wolfgang on Mar 18, 2019 16:21:45 GMT -5
Likable. I can easily see Jesse as my best friend. Ditto Gale. (You remember all his karaoke? That shiite was funny.) Maybe not Mike, but I would like him enough to invite him over to a BBQ. I would like to hang with Saul Goodman. He seems like a fun guy.
|
|