My New Year predictions

[goGopherBill]

always looking forward....always...sometimes....seldom correct.

Penn St.Wins big 10 in Vb ...BOLD .
Wins National Championship....in TAMPA !
JT..R and others are you ready for a road trip to somewhere other than Nebraska?

Vikings win it all this year, REALLY OUT THERE BOLD..but maybe someday and I will be a genius for predicting it,


every year.


Democrats will self implode....yes my sheepish youngsters...OBAMA is not GOD and he comes from Chicago...not Hawaii.
This is a really easy one....they are off to a great start in Illinois and New York.
California must raise its taxes to pay for all the free goodies for non legals.
THEY cut 1 week from the school year to save millions...
gee it's for "The Kids" wears thin as teachers still get their money.
Let the teacher UNION nice commercials explain it...

USC is the real national champs in Football....Next year its official.

The Governor from Illinois disappears on a plane flight to Miami...
Democrats are relieved.

Republicans start over...and next time look at ROMNEY...

Baaa.

Now instead of saying I am brilliant as usual...add YOUR own to show who's the DADDY.

[rhinovb14]

I work very hard for my money and so does my girlfriend. Neither one of us get any thanks from anyone, just grief and how to do our jobs, having never walked a mile in our shoes, including you Bill. I know you find it hard to believe Bill because of your narrow world view, but we do our job for the kids. It's why we got into it. I work over break preparing lessons for them not for my health or bonus pay. I offer free before and after school review sessions for them, not for my bonus pay. I coach for about $3 an hour for them not for glory or pay. Spin that
one go gopher joke.

Defend NCLB all you want when former Bush officials denounce the usefulness and declare it a complete disaster. Where the bar is set so low to create an illusion of achievement. Where data is used to drive instruction and all professional judgement and what's best for the kids is thrown out the window. Where students who do NOTHING and fail every quarter are deemed "proficient." A complete joke that lets slackers and future criminals coast through until they hit a wall and drop out. But hey, maybe that's the plan. To make private education which gets the chance to filter and send back the rejects the public schools look superior. Where incompetent teachers look like saints because the students parents actually value education and the pursuit of knowledge. But i'm sure you discount the role that community, and culture plays in educational success.
Kids who have never been said no to, who don't understand the idea of personal responsibility. Whose parents defend despicable actions at the expense of a teachers judgement.

Bill, you wouldn't last a week in a classroom. My kids would eat you alive and they eat out of the palm of my hand because I know how to relate to kids and spark their interest. If you think that's an easy task I welcome you into my classroom to give it a shot.

"some stupid animal noise to represent a pompous right wing know it all blowhole that actually knows squat that makes him look like an infant and completely uncreative. Perhaps an elephant or a pig?"

[goGopherBill]

ooow. I LOVE debate with any teacher..anytime ..anywhere.

On the table we will discuss cost,effectiveness...test scores and compare against many other countries.

American teachers will get their butts kicked.

Teachers,schools and higher learning are bankrupting the whole country..just as Auto workers are taking their industry down.

Teachers and their UNIONS hold school districts and their townships hostage ..."it's for the KIDS" Bull puck every negotiating time.

Double digit increases in salaries while nothing they produced got better.

Our schools 30 years ago produced more and better test scores,better scientist..better workers.
All while cheaper wages and cost were in effect.

Its like saying a home run hit today is better than a home run hit 40 years ago.

NOPE.

Just cost more to hit it,produce it and watch it.
Just like education.

Next ...for all you UNION teachers...

Teachers are not made....
You dont need to spend $100,000 and a 4 year degree , or a masters in science, to teach 4 th grade science.You dont need a 4 year degree to teach or run a PE. class.

My wife donated 15 years as a teacher aid and saw 1st hand the abuse and overkill teachers get and have.She graded papers.
She prepared classrooms and went on field trips.She saw the privileges teachers get that many workers only dream of.. Long breaks during the day.Free parking while our kids pay. Quiet and secure break rooms with everything in them..Paid for continuous training.

Ever hear of a bad teacher being fired...?
Nope...not unless they molest a kid or start fires...SET for life.

OVER KILL...Over cost...and taxpayers foot the bill.

I have had MANY ,,over a dozen teachers, work on my DRY WALL crew over the 30 years I ran work.
They ALL said the cost of educating themselves to teach little Tommy in 3 rd grade wasn't Worth the effort.

Many would work the summer months then go back to teaching during the school year.

Great.. we pay for full time teachers and get part time help.

So Calif. and OBAMA raise taxes to pay for higher teacher pay.

My question is for what ?

So YOU can continue your lifestyle of being over paid ,then retire with benefits that bankrupt a society.

Your Kids would be proud to know how much they will pay in taxes so you can live BETTER than 80 % of retired people.

Spin that by them.

[georgia(pacific)girl]

teachers, overpaid? are you kidding?!!??

I wouldn't want to be a teacher for all they have to do and all the responsibilities they have and how little they are paid. Yeah, sure it's nice how much time off they have, but yikes, I'd hate to have to put up with 30+ little buggars for 4-6 hours a day. I'd rather be a farmer and feed the animals twice a day and let my crops grow and have a few months off each year during the non-growing season.

[rhinovb14]

Paid continuing education? Where? I pay for mine as I paid for my masters in Math. You don't want me to have a math major to teach Algebra, geometry, and pre-calc?

My point was that our tests are a joke. Almost 90 percent "proficiency" in our district on A Bush generated NCLB test and yet we still get our butts kicked by other countries. What have Bush and his cronies done to improve this? teacher training and prep needs to be changed. If you took the time to see why finland does so well you would see that the teachers are trained better and funded by the government that recruits its best and brightest from high schools. Here teachers are looked down on and taught to be disrespected. You can't ignore the cultural differences between us and other countries Bill. Apples and Oranges.

Long breaks during the day? When? If teachers are taking breaks then they aren't planning good lessons just recycling old ones that never worked in the first place. I work from 7-3 with a 15 minute "break" to eat lunch which I usually slop onto student papers. Many teachers do this, so you are wrong......again. Surprise surprise. Your wife taught not you. You haven't stood there in the front of the class. You are spewing crap on something that you are ignorant of.

You claim I can't argue but then you offer nothing new or original. You avoid my main points in your posts and throw the union garbage around. A masters in math should be required of all high school teachers and that should be rewarded accordingly. I could have made a lot more in private industry. Most of us do this job for kids. Yet you don't recognize this. You focus on the bad seeds which there certainly are.

Your above post is exactly what I expected. Garbage. I would never bash your job because I have never tried it. But I have worked a lot of jobs including construction, drywall, service industry. All were a walk in the park compared to getting 120 high schoolers interested in Algebra let alone put away their cell phone.

You are hopeless bill. Your response will be the same old crap. You are so predictable. Contact me and i'll set you up for a week. I'll even plan the lessons and grade the papers. You just have to control the kids and their hormones. You up to it? Or are you going to dance around my post and bash the union again?

[FUBAR]

How about an experiment? The youngest kids in Bill's extended family can go to elementary schools taught by minimum wage high school graduates (no college degrees allowed on teaching staff). Special care will be taken to choose "born" teachers (Bill - "Teachers are not made..."). If these children do as well in high school and college as the rest of the country we will know he is right.

What do you think Bill? Are you willing to subject the youngest children in your family to this?

[goGopherBill]

Subject my youngest to this?

mmmm...Home schooling , being done by many parents right now shows test scores can be about the same as public schooling.

Parents do not have a master degree in every subject and you certainly dint need one to teach ANYTHING.

I did just pay over $90,00 to send my youngest to LOUISVILLE and saw 14% increases in EVERY year she was there. Colleges are holding society for Ransom and we are going broke.

My Post is not ripping TEACHERS..its ripping the UNIONS that represent teachers.It's about administrators getting even higher bonuses.

The so called other countries do NOT HAVE UNION TEACHERS and yet they surpass our kids scores.
They spend LESS PER CAP. than other WE do and yet have a better educational system.
Kansas City 20 years ago had an experiment..they built the best school ...had under 20 kids per teacher..and threw money for 4 years at the kids..everything was the best.

The end result was the kids scored exactly the same...Newer schools...higher paid teachers and small classrooms did NOT translate into a better education.
Only the teachers had it better. The administrators.

Again I PERSONALLY know3 high school teachers in San Diego county who retired after 25 years of teaching ENGLISH and Science and now both get $8,000 per month in retirement.

While Detroit goes down with UNIONS blaming everything under the sun...Our Education system is even worst.

I challenge ANYONE reading this to look at their property tax statement for the last 10 years...REVIEW and look at the #1 reason it went up in Double digits ..EDUCATION and schools.

Now COMPARE TEACHER WAGE INCREASES OVER THE SAME PERIOD TO YOURS...
Did you keep up?

No ....so now blame Billy for bringing this up ...

[rhinovb14]

I have a simple math problem for you Bill

11 years of teaching under my belt.

Starting salary in 1997 with masters 39,600. Regardless of whether you believe we need a masters to teach high school math, the federal government REQUIRES it under NCLB. Your man Bush and his administration wants "highly qualified" teachers which requires a masters and a battery of tests whose fees come out of our pockets, not to mention the $100 fee to be fingerprinted. If you have a problem with these requirements call the White House and voice your concerns.
So the cost of getting said masters is unavoidable.

In addition, to teach secondary math, one must have a deep understanding of Math and its applications. Joe Shmo off the street does not have this understanding. A math degree is necessary. I could not accurately describe complex mathematical understanding without a base of knowledge far deeper than what a high school diploma affords. What is NOT necessary are the BS education theory classes that are required where we discuss BS theories that defy common sense with no scientific foundation or proven long term success....again out of our control and teacher union control.

So to make my investment in my education commensurate, my pay should reflect this, otherwise I would turn to another profession.

Current salary after 11 years: $50,000. So, i'll give you some time to respond, partial credit applied only if appropriate work is shown. Calculate my average yearly percent increase in my pay. Round to the nearest tenth of a percent.
I could have STARTED at $50,000 or above with my degree 11 years ago, but because we teachers are "greedy" I chose to work in a public school.

Hawaii teachers average around $30,000. Lowest payed teachers with the highest cost of living. They are really living in the lap of luxury.

Second problem: Financial experts suggest that educational debt should never exceed let alone come close to your yearly salary. My educational debt: $55,000
which exceeds $50,000. Which is a problem. $469 a month for 30 year problem to be exact.

So all of this to better myself and serve children and society. Regardless of what you think, MOST teachers don't have dollar signs in their eyes and most are very thankful for what we receive and have heavy student debt to pay off. You focus on the few that scream foul and make us look bad. I just don't understand your desire to slam a profession, that for the most part is filled with dedicated and professional people. My reward? A solid benefits package. I don't think that's too much to ask.

The $8,000 a month retirement is no longer. In New York that is called Tier 1 and almost all of those teachers are long gone. Current retirement packages are a far cry from this and now require more individual contributions (our benefits aren't free.) Our union invests our contributions and thats how it grows. Couple this with a 401K With no employer matching and you can enjoy a decent retirement.

You seem to have a bigger problem with education than welfare where you get free money at zero percent interest for zero years.

Bill, I have gotten proven results with many students returning to thank me, which makes everything worth it. But I have no doubt that If my salary couldn't pay my bills, I would be doing something else. Do you want the good teachers that we have to leave?

As far as home schooling goes....duh. One on one individual instruction SHOULD trump a 30 to 1 student to teacher ratio. Yet you claim it is equivalent. Less distractions, no bullying, no hormones, etc. Home schooling in theory should be SUPERIOR, but it isn't. Not to mention ZERO interaction and socializing which is an integral part of teenagers lives.

[aardvark]

Jan 2, 2009 11:38:23 GMT -5 goGopherBill said:

always looking forward....always...sometimes....seldom correct.

Vikings win it all this year, REALLY OUT THERE BOLD..but maybe someday and I will be a genius for predicting it,

every year.

It looks like your prediction on the Vikings was just a tad off the mark.

Bill, instead of making predictions, I suggest you make resolutions. Number one, at the top of your list should be to try to act nicer to others. You get what you give in this world, no matter which side of the aisle you live on. Think about it.

[goGopherBill]

Scaly creeping guy...

My prediction for the Viking win was based upon...HOPE and faith.

Just as all those who voted for OBAMA based their election prediction on.

My error on the Vikes is nothing compared to what we elected.

Try and be nicer?
mmm ..I AM the nicest guy around, I open doors not only for little'ol ladies but for everyone.
I feed my wild rabbits and deer and pheasants every year with my corn, I raise $$$ for the food shelf...

I am Santa to several families...probably yours too...!

I use my turn signal..I NEVER show R's IQ in frustration to other drivers...

I pick up garbage from the roadside...I am only tough in a few things and that is only on friendly topics..ask pickle dude..
Bowling...if you dont bowl over 200 stay home...
VB....I HAVE SEEN IT ALL.
DEBATE...I'll pick the losing side to show how little others know about it.



Now back to education.

" You don't want me to have a math major to teach Algebra, geometry, and pre-calc? "

No... I want you to CARE about KIDS which is way more important than knowledge.

You dont NEED teachers with all that paper garbage to teach..Computor programs will do just fine.

And Computers don't need Health care,vacations,free parking..fancy break rooms...and NO UNIONS need represent them.
Kids can read programs and follow basic instuctions...Teacher UNIONS will never tell you that. It isn't about education of Children..but preserving a style of life...out dated as it may be.

Like being the best UNION made buggy whip factory...

Society will need to make a break from traditional thinking...
Be progressive I think they call it.
Think whats best for everyone...not just teacher Unions.

I HATE MATH..but love logic...
so based upon your salary ..what didn't you disclose....?

Any body....?

Timmy ..in the back row....
"they didn't Mention Benefit package increases.."


Good Tim.

You're right.. UNIONS loath to mention the legacy cost that public service employees get..Sick days ,birthdays,holidays, 2nd full moon in a month...
Health insurance...vacations ...and tax credits...

I can go on and on about all public service workers...FIREMEN,policemen...

All make a better living than in the private sector.

Fine if our taxes and economy wes great.
Bad if Minnesota taxpayers pay More in Federal taxes to support teachers,policeman and fire fighters in Calif.

My whole debate in a nut shell...

Everybody wants everything ,but only of someone else pays for it.

Did I mention I flunked Algebra 2 in High school...

I was already making more money doing drywall than my teacher made.

Boy.. things have changed.

[rhinovb14]

Bill I have to say I admire how you can be so convinced you're right when you're so wrong. I believe people call it delusional?

Your argument is weak so you grab at straws that aren't there.

1. I and most do care deeply about kids. Strike 1 against you

2. If by fancy break room you mean the one with a 60 year old plastic couch and a microwave that doesn't work then good. If not, strike 2 against you.

3. Kids can follow basic directions? Like when I put all 10 quiz answers in the DIRECTIONS of a quiz and only 5 out of 120 kids caught it, then good. If not, strike 3.

So now you're out, but lets keep playing

4. Benefits have decreased and cost to us have increased. Strike 4.
Your sarcastic remark was dimwitted and proves that R's IQ is superior to yours....and he can spell.

5. I have hung drywall, framed houses, painted houses, and dug ditches (literally). All were a walk in the park compared to what I do. You have not taught in a public classroom.

This time actually address me and not the image you have of a teacher because you're wrong on every count.

[rhinovb14]

And may I add Bill that I pay the same taxes as you and everyone else. What tax breaks? A $300 credit for purchases I make out of my pocket on materials I use in my classroom? Wow, you got me there Bill. You are so wise. I can see why you failed Algebra 2, your teacher knew more than you did. You hate math because you can't do it and you are terrible at logic.

"Insert quote about Union, sheep, benefits, or taxes"

[Not Me]

More importantly, your prediction about the Vikings winning it all is already busted.

[goGopherBill]

My rerbuttal...
It's soo eaaasy....

1..." 1. I and most do care deeply about kids. Strike 1 against you"

Billy in the front row says...

I never questioned anybodies desire or wanting or caring to teach our children...I Questioned the TEACHER UNIONS...
A debate ploy to throw ones opponent of track.

re read and post where I said teachers don't care.
No point.


2. " If by fancy break room you mean the one with a 60 year old plastic couch and a microwave that doesn't work then good. If not, strike 2 against you.

Rebuttal...NICE try...
YOU can BUY a new MICROWAVE for under a $100 and get a used one from a friend...usually for free.

here's so more from you

" work from 7-3 with a 15 minute "break" to eat lunch which I usually slop onto student papers. "

I failed at algebra but not debate...
sooo... Since when is 7- 3 considered an 8 hour day?
15 minute lunches violate every state ,federal and UNION rule.
Either you are lying or worst ...a scab?..just joking...

Now why don't YOU ADD the number of working DAYS that you actually work, vs. the rest of the GENERAL PUBLICS work year and then we'll talk about your $50,000 year salary ..while everyone Else's salary contracted or they lost jobs.
NO point..
YOU WONT PLACE YOUR JOB SECURITY ON THE TABLE FOR DEBATE. Knowing you have a job in troubling times while no one else does...PEACE OF MIND ...gotta be woth something...??

"3. Kids can follow basic directions? Like when I put all 10 quiz answers in the DIRECTIONS of a quiz and only 5 out of 120 kids caught it, then good. If not, strike 3.

Rebuttal.

Aaah ..I love this one...My History teacher used it to convince us to pay attention. She passed out a 2 hundred question surprise test...told us to read the instructions on the 1st page and talk to no one.
The instructions said Bla ,bla,bla but go to last page and sigh your name and turn in.
Only 3 out of 27 got it...ME

It showed that kids need more training early on and nothing about history or class subject knowledge.I Did Score A's in every History class including HONORS program.

Again kids taught early by computer learning ANY SUBJECT will learn if the program is responsive and creative...NOT ALL TEACHERS are this good.

NO point.

'4." Benefits have decreased and cost to us have increased. Strike 4
Your sarcastic remark was dimwitted and proves that R's IQ is superior to yours....and he can spell.

REBUTTAL.. YOUR BENEFITS HAVE NOT DECREASED..BUT HAVE CONTRACTED GOING FORWARD AS PUBLIC PRESSURE MOUNTS AGAINST TAX INCREASES.

My Friends in Calif. are not going away..they and thousands more are locked in with benifits that rival CEO.s
They are in their late 50's with life expectancy to be at least 70.
They make as much in retirement as they did working...NAME any other job like that...PLEASE..with taxpayers footing the bill.

Your cost have increased?
From what to what...From 0-300 per year.? And you get those tax write offs that no one else gets.

Everyone in America has been in the same boat.We cannot have tax increases every year to subsidize Communities and states where teachers hold school districts hostage.
There is a point of no return..The car industry found it.
Teacher unions stand at the Cliff right now.

R can spell....but he has no job....oops! College training running amock..come tape with us.
More FAILED EDUCATION PROCESS which is what I am arguing about...his education doesn't match up with any current job necessities.
Drywallers need NONE, pay day on Friday...Mud on the wall,not the floor.

No point ..and you continue to make mine even clearer.

" 5. I have hung drywall, framed houses, painted houses, and dug ditches (literally). All were a walk in the park compared to what I do. You have not taught in a public classroom."

Rebuttal..What does that have to do with anything...
I would love to see you hang Drywall on my crew. 40 sheets of 12 fters every day..5/8ths ...If you can do this every day and we have work you can earn nearly $ 65,000 per year, UNION Benefits.

Only trouble is we only work 6-9 months a year unless in a BOOM CYCLE which we ain't in...so it's lay offs.
No taxpayers support us.

Painted houses...?
Great... My Union pays over $60,000 for residential painters...must have 3 year training program..must be able to travel 100 miles in any direction...and survive 6 months layoff do to inclement weather.
How far to you travel every day...how many days off do you get with NO PAY?

Dig Ditches...?

Good luck ...Laboreres Union and my buddy carry that.
$70,000 in Minnesota with 4 year traing program.
We use heavy machinery to break through 4 feet of frozen tundra.
Only about 40 % of his local is working now ..with many off for months...Mexicans doing the work for contractors for pennies on the dollar in all CONSTRUCTION JOBS here in MINN.

Do you have scabs able to walk in and take your job away?
Do You travel hundreds of miles every day in sub zero weather?
Do you have long lay offs every year with no pay ...pushing UN employment benefits to the edge?

Stay in the class Room...You wouldn't last a week outside.

and you lose all debate points...
More great educational dollars wasted.
I love when other comment on my spelling or grammar..or lackj of it.....You gat my message...you just cant dafend yours.

[rhinovb14]

Wrong, here's my 15 minute break because I choose to work through my breaks. Just thought I would eat my sandwich while typing to you.

Teachers are being let go. Good ones go and bad ones stay (my beef with tenure)

I understand your union concerns. Many teachers share the sentiment. Has its faults, but has its merits also.

My problem is the picture you paint. The broad stroke brush. My points were very well articulated. I survived for much more than a week doing said jobs. Even enjoy that kind of work. Sunshine (although rare in Buffalo), fresh air, and working with hands to see a final product. My final product is a confident, more fluent math student. Very rewarding for both involved. A computer can't pat a kid on the back and say good job, you really earned that. A computer can't correct poor behavior or spark a flame. An uninterested student is an uninterested student. A computer can't identify abuse at home and protect the child. A computer can't read literature with inflection, tone, and passion. A computer can't dress like Ben Franklin to bring history alive. Human interaction is already diminished enough with phones and computers.

How does that wet paper bag feel? You just can't seem to get out of it.

Have to finish my lunch and grade. Although I do enjoy discussing with you. I find it entertaining. Maybe a little devils advocate for both of us??