Ap..The economy

[goGopherBill]

NEW YORK – Investors turned cautious again Monday as a staggering $61.7 billion in quarterly losses at insurer American International Group Inc. touched off fresh worries about the health of the nation's financial system.

The Dow Jones industrial average fell below 7,000 for the first time in more than 11 years as investors grew pessimistic about the health of banks, and in turn the economy. The blue chips hadn't traded below 7,000 since Oct. 28, 1997, and last closed below that mark on May 1 of that year.

The credit crisis and recession have now slashed half the average's value since it hit a record high over 14,000 in October 2007.

Investors are fleeing financials after the government said it would give AIG another $30 billion in loans, besides the $150 billion it has already given the company.

Investors are worried about European financial companies, too. HSBC PLC, Europe's largest bank by market value, reported a 70 percent drop in 2008 profit and said it needs to raise $17.7 billion and cut 6,100 jobs.

"As bad as things are, they can still get worse, and get a lot worse," said Bill Strazzullo, chief market strategist for Bell Curve Trading. Strazzullo said he believes there's a significant chance the S&P 500 and the Dow will fall back to their 1995 levels of 500 and 5,000, respectively.


and there will riots in the streets if THAT happens.

How long do you give OBAMA to kill the country?

What did his base supporters ever RISK ?

The poor who pay little or no taxes..risked nothing.
They didn't have a job,house,health care or retirement on their own.
They rely on Big Brother and rich people and charities for survival.


What did the majority of workers risk in electing OBAMA?
Their housing values..their retirement funds and energy cost that are going to double.

What did UNIONS risk in electing OBAMA ?.. absolutely Nothing.
They are not going to be saved...by anybody.
They didn't cut pay,pensions or work rules.
They made the auto companies go TO OBAMA FOR HELP.

Funny thing on the way to the promised land..
ALL SHEEP don't get picked for salvation...

Obama gets to pick and choose..not us.

Enjoy your 401 plan reports.
( and remember OBAMA never promised workers a free retirement plan...DID HE?? )

[bigfan]

Mar 2, 2009 11:01:34 GMT -5 goGopherBill said:

How long do you give OBAMA to kill the country?

Did this not start on the Bush WATCH?

[goGopherBill]

True enough...
But Democrats took control 2 years before OBAMA got elected...
Until then the stock market and job creations were all up.

Democrats as the political minority didn't do their job then did they?

Now they whine about the opposition party doing its job.

To oppose and point out troubling things in the majority leaderships policies.


Democrats did point out we are losing the war in IRAQ.

Did they ever mention the stock market and looming housing crash?

They did mention the deficit OVER and over again...

Then when elected didR nothing to reign in spending,in fact doubling the debt in less than 100 days.

Bush's spending was militay based..not in public welfare to broke states.

Not until the last 6 months when he and McCain sold their conservative souls out.

I was ROMNEY all the way.( oh...he is a Mormon ya know... )

[cardcounter]

goGopherBill; I do agree with you that government spending is out of control and will do great damage to the economy in 2010 and beyond. However, what is happening now in the economy is the result of the Bush administration. It is too early to blame Obama. Yes, the Democrats were in control of Congress during part of Bush's term, but he almost never vetoed any of the spending bills.

I really don't think much would be different under McCain. Both parties have no fiscal discipline.

There are not going to be any riots in the streets; at least not over the issues you address. I have read books for 30 years how the impending financial collapse is just a year or two away and it will result in chaos, riots, looting, lawlessness, etc. It never happens and it won't this time either.

[hammer]

There is plenty of blame to go around. Obama was not really elected to fix the economy. During most of his election campaign the big issue was Iraq. It was only in the last month or two of the election cycle that the economy became "the BIG issue." There was/is nothing in Obama's background to indicate that he is particularily adept at handling economic/business issues. He did run a well organized campaign, unlike McCain, which gave some comfort to swing voters. Are voters having buyer's remorse? Some maybe, but they had two choices, Obama or McCain. Now, if the Republicans had nominated Romney, who has a considerably stronger business background, it might have been a closer election, but probably Obama would still have won. Right now, the economy may not be salvageable. That is, the "D" word is very much in play. The very best outcome now is a bad recession with high interest rates and inflation. Because the government did not act fast enough to gather up the toxic assets and floor their value so private entities would buy them, the economy remains in a death spiral.

[goGopherBill]

Hammer..Nice insight and correct.

Romney was way ahead going into the election cycle.

Straw votes in every region had him beating McCain and Hillary.

I partly Blame HUCK for stopping Romney in SC by telling his delegates to vote for McCain...along with Huck and Black religious leader blaspheming Romney on his faith.

Sharpton said we cant elect a Mormon...
Huck questioned if Mormons believed that the devil and Jesus were brothers..( I cannot support Him on that lie alone)
He went to CHURCH college for 4 years and knew MORMONS didn't feel that way.

So WE got McCain...because of the war issue alone.
and the fact he was against pork..

Democrats went with OBAMA knowing republicans would TOAST HILLARY and Bill..and they could play the race card with OBAMA

Now we get why politics is broke.
Nobody elected has a business background in economics...everything is voted in along party lines and pork pay backs.

The economy HAS NO FAITH IN OBAMA and DEMOCRATS..
and the poor don't fuel the economy..MONEY DOES..much to the Democrats dismay.

If you cater to the poor...promising to attack the rich ..this is the result and VERY PREDICTABLE.

ROMNEY could fix this mess in less than a month..actually I could.
The up tick rule ..mark-market..and no bailouts..

Financials would turn around over nite and with no taxpayer monies risked. WE could watch the market go up...

Credit would flow..and all could be seen in less than a week ..without pain.

Then we attack the tax code..simplifying the code...
Then we lower taxes..and watch.

In less than a week...your results would be seen.

Thats why we need the common guy ..not political cronies in charge.

[hammer]

At this point I'm not sure anyone could prevent this Titantic from sinking. But it sure would
be nice to have some clear precise policies coming out of Washington. I know, that's probably asking too much. The Orchestra was still playing 30 minutes before the Titanic sank.

The fact that Romney appeared to be the Republican clubhouse leader but was then displaced by McCain, does point out America still has a problem with religious diversity. Protestants are ok, Catholics are sort of ok, Southern Baptists are sort of ok, Mormons are on the fringe or acceptance, Muslims -- well, let's say they are pretty low on the totem pole.

I think we as citizens need to think out-of-the-box when it comes to our current economic crisis. One tool at our disposal are Consitutional Ammendments and their possible repeal. The one I would target is the 16th which allows for the collection of income taxes. The onerous nature of our tax code, with all of its special interest deductions, and complexity, needs to be greatly simplified or eliminated. A national VAT is a much better approach to taxation.

[m]

Mar 2, 2009 14:30:21 GMT -5 hammer said:

Some maybe, but they had two choices, Obama or McCain.

See that's the problem with the US. It seems they just want a two party system. I bet a lot of people that went to vote this past Presidential election were surprised to see other names running for President. Names such as Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Cynthia McKinney and Ralph Nader. The proof that this country just wants a two party system, is during the Presidential debates, neither Bob Barr, Chuck Baldwin, Cynthia McKinney nor Ralph Nader were there, and more than likely not invited. This is after polls were taken to see the rise of Independent registered voters too.

[goGopherBill]

Correct on all counts.

The Press never gave enough time for any fringe candidate to get his or her exposure..
The rules are stacked against the common guy.

Money is King,not the voters.
Special interest controls money and power..before and after the election.

Look at the pork being handed now..pay backs to unions..For their support..
Huge $ for schools..pay backs to teachers..
Huge $ for museums and arts..

Stuff that couldn't and DID NOT SUPPORT THEMSELVES without tax payers footing the bill.

Just as Banks and all auto companies couldn't and DID NOT SUPPORT themselves.

EVERYTHING and everybody cannot always be a winner,FAILURE IS A OPTION.

Success is being judged by society as supported by NON tax payer dollars,not who will give free Tax payer $$'s from some far away place in another part of AMERICA.

If little SUSY and her crumbling school along the railroad tracks cannot be rebuilt with local support.and state monies...Maybe we need to ask why?

WHY NOT?..Why are they not funding their own children

Are they wasting $$$ somewhere else?

This process doesn't allow tax payers to ask those kinds of questions...

It furthers corrupt local spending ,because they KNOW NOW they can count on national tax payer bail outs.

Bush and Republicans wanted local control over spending and where it went..and part of the reasoning was voters wouldn't allow graft and corruption to happen.

Local people would fund schools and sewer systems on their own...

Instead most people don't know who their school board directors are..who is in charge of sewers...or even follow where their local taxes and property taxes go and fund.

It is too EASY to ask for MORE STATE $$$ ..
More GOVERNMENT $$$
because the leaders we elect NEVER SAY NO.
Saying NO means they wont be elected next time.

Just as OBAMA SAID.

WHO doesn't want affordable health care for EVERYONE?
Who Doesn't want affordable education and college for everyone?
Who Doesn't want cheap and affordable housing for everyone?
Who doesn't wan to feed everyone who is hungry?
Who doesn't want clean air?

Only some of us have ALWAYS worked for all this stuff ,while others know they will never have to.

RON PAUL looks like a genius now.
ROMNEY is like a GOD.

and OBAMA like an emperor with no clothes.