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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 3, 2009 14:38:02 GMT -5
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stocks mostly edged higher on Tuesday after President Barack Obama said share prices are potentially a good deal at current levels, offsetting persistent uncertainty about plans to shore up the financial system. U.S. Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said the Obama administration will evaluate potential costs to stabilize banks as more information becomes available, in testimony before a congressional panel. "Obama is trying to cheerlead, which is OK. I'd like to see what he bases his view on. It shows that at least he recognizes that something is going on," said Joe Saluzzi, co-manager of trading at Themis Trading in Chatham, New Jersey. The Dow Jones industrial average (DJI:^DJI - News) gained 10.44 points, or 0.15 percent, to 6,773.73. But the Standard & Poor's 500 Index (^SPX - News) dropped 0.11 of a point, or 0.02 percent, to 700.71. The Nasdaq Composite Index (Nasdaq:^IXIC - News) added 4.60 points, or 0.35 percent, to 1,327.45. Add that he said the stock market is a short term poll which makes him UNQUALIFIED to be president. The market is not a poll IDIOT PRESIDENT !!  You don't know a twit about economics!!  Those you appointed know NOTHING.."CRAMMER..on mad money" NOW you set a BEAR TRAP to lure others on FAITH that things are a DEAL? On what grounds? That DEMOCRATS need things to improve or you will lose all credibility? Everything you say proves it to economics and History buffs. I got some CITI for you sheep to buy...it's down..what a GREAT TIME TO BUY!! I think some here might have some NWA stock left .. Or General motors. Or GE ,or many others, Please buy my stock ECL and really be smart!!  |
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Post by ladeda on Mar 3, 2009 15:07:56 GMT -5
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Post by hammer on Mar 3, 2009 15:36:16 GMT -5
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 4, 2009 10:36:14 GMT -5
Both replies show NOTHING to what the President said.
One shows his approval rating is still at 60%..another shows it is slipping among REpublicans..go figure.
Over 61% of Blacks still favor him..the OJ factor ..
Until welfare REFORM and higher taxes hits them they will love dragging down the white power base.
I wonder how much the 61% risks in Obama's policies compared to their REWARD for voting for Him?
AGAIN THE POOR GAIN MUCH MORE WITHOUT RISK THAN THE UPPER AND WORKING CLASS DO UNDER OBAMA.
So ..did you rush out and buy stocks on the Presidents recommendations?
Not many did as the market dropped BUY the end of the day ..AGAIN.
Your retirement plans and 401 ks and savings are all toast and MIGHT take years to recover,not months.
Not including your house value.
But it was all Bush's fault ...
Baaa.
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Post by hammer on Mar 4, 2009 15:48:39 GMT -5
I'm now estimating 10 years to recover value lost in the stock market crash. That's based upon Dow/Nasdaq market close yesterday and that we are near a true market bottom. Obviously, the 2nd factor is an assumption, and could be way off the mark. We are roughly 50% off the market highs in 2007. In the Great Depression the Dow lost 90% of its value.
A recovery back to the 14,000 level on the Dow would not bring us to PAR value with the 2007 high either because of expected severe inflation due to staggering governent deficits. So the Dow would probably have to go to something in the neighborhood of 20,000 by 2019 to give you equivalent value to the 14,000 level in 2007.
I know I'm being optimistic with this evaluation so I'll give you a somewhat more pessimistic viewpoint that aired on the Today Show yesterday morning -- a discussion regarding Obamanomics between Jim Cramer, Erin Burnett, and Matt Lauer:
LAUER: Famously in October, Jim, I don't mean to interrupt, but famously in October, you told people if you need this money in the next five years, get it out of the market. And then in November on the 24th, you said this to me on our show, you said "Matt, but confidence, confidence can be restored. A lot of what's going on is gloom. Some of this is pessimism that's unwarranted. Fast action by Obama could take that off the table." We had a stimulus package, we had a housing bailout, we've got efforts to save the banks. People would say that's fast action. Why hasn't it worked?
CRAMER: We have an agenda in this country now that I would regard as being a radical agenda. I think that we had a budget that came out that basically put a level of fear in this country that I have not seen ever in my life, and I think that that changed everything.
LAUER: So, the policies are not shareholder-friendly?
CRAMER: Shareholder-friendly? This is the most, greatest wealth destruction I've seen by a president.
BURNETT: The country's friendly. I mean, there is a way to put it together, and I've got to say --
CRAMER: The stock market is the country right now. This is where people's weath is. This is their pension plans, their 401(k)s, their IRAs.
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Post by cardcounter on Mar 4, 2009 17:20:54 GMT -5
The one good thing I did was get rid of all my stocks several years ago. But, one of the reasons was that I feared President Bush was racking up deficit spending that could not be sustained. Little did I know the next President would be infinetly worse.
I expect a short bounce in stocks and in the economy later in the year due to stimulus spending. Then the realization will set in that there is no money left and other countries will no longer buy our bonds.
There is nothing you can say to Democrat partisans about the impending financial doom. They will support their party no matter what transpires in this country. Only time and the inevitable will reveal what a terrible turn our country has taken.
And one more thing: OBAMA, BRING THE TROOPS HOME NOW! The public who voted for you in the Democrat primary will soon see that your campaign pledges were the words of a dishonest politician.
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Post by hammer on Mar 4, 2009 19:41:04 GMT -5
cardcounter,
Some Democrats see the potential financial doom -- e.g., Jim Cramer is a democrat. On CNN I saw Ed Gergen, a respected Democratic/Political expert questioning Obama's grand plans. But your point is well taken, I think you are saying that there are way too many Democrats not questioning. As goGopherBill so often points out, us lowly citizens need to keep the political class in line.
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 5, 2009 11:51:06 GMT -5
I would go 1 step further...
I see no point to be in Afghanistan anytime.!!
YES ...there is no oil...or anything else we need or want.
A guy hiding in some cave 12,000 miles away cannot hurt us ..
1. we monitor all communications to and from. MONEY FLOWS ..
2. Use all UN manned weapons to attack bases of operation.
3. Use DIPLOMACY to force that country to change.
4. Stop and don't allow the poppy trade in THIS country.
5. Blockade and maintain their country ..while showing the rest of the world we are serous about terrorist support by other nations.
I REALLY feel a blockade is easier and cheaper than bombing and then re building.
It didn't get Castro out as ruler of CUBA,but how much of a threat was he to us?
Look at North Korea..sooner or later they will rebel against their own leaders.
For 50 years they meant nothing.
Look at we we intervened militarily.
Viet Nam..
Korea..
Iraq..
Afghanistan.
Somalia..
and yes CUBA ..
Some might mention NORTH and the drug deal in Central America...DID that really work?
If we are not going to win a overwhelming victory and capitulation by our foes...why waste men and money?
Let other nations fight their own battles ...use our influence and power to persuade others not to get involved.
While the Chinese government is anti American the people are not..we never messed with China out of fear/Respect..same with the Soviet union.
Let Chavez saber rattle..
Let Iran posture.
Our military would be better off rebuilding and regrouping..
Money saved ..and be better off IMAGE wise world wide.
IMO ..the first Gulf war should have done the deal...
A true conservative does not wish for war..or Nation rebuilding.
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Post by cardcounter on Mar 6, 2009 15:09:51 GMT -5
Bill; I didn't realize that you were a left-wing, anti-war, liberal!
With all the 1,000s and 1,000s of terrorists across the world; is conquering Afghanistan really going to make any difference as far as U.S. interests are involved? Terrorists are like drug dealers. As soon as you kill one, there is another there to take his place.
I can't see spending all the resources and, more importantly, risking American soldiers to invade and conquer a nation when it is not going to do anything to reduce the number of terrorists in the world.
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Post by hammer on Mar 6, 2009 18:25:20 GMT -5
"Terrorists, all you can hope to do is contain them."
-George Bush, whoops I mean Barack Obama
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2009 22:45:13 GMT -5
There is nothing you can do if people WANT to panic. What do stockholders want? More tax cuts? More wealth to the richest 1%? This has never worked and we are currently reaping what we sowed. Redistribute the wealth? HELL YES.
Here's how we got into this mess: at the first HINT of financial problems, business started laying off people. There was, in fact, no hiring boom during the ENTIRE Bush tenure. Guess what? A didn't cause B. B frickin' caused A!! If you don't have people out there gaining wealth in their jobs LET ALONE HOLDING ON TO THEIR JOBS, you don't have people out there buying the stupid products. Now what does Corporate America do? They lay off MORE employees. What do stockholders do? They panic.
Right. Blame this on Obama.
(Jim Cramer is a fraud. Everyone knows that.)
(Anybody want to buy my Citi shares? Tell me how a $50+ stock can now be worth $1. It makes no sense.)
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Post by cardcounter on Mar 7, 2009 20:24:39 GMT -5
95% of what is happening now is the result of events that transpired during Bush's tenure. But the solution now is not to keep rehashing how bad Bush was in office. It is not relevant to the solution.
Bush is somewhere in Texas doing nothing. He has no power now. Obama has all the power and I look to Obama for the answers to the current crisis. It is frustrating to me that every time a Democrat strategist for the Obama team is asked a tough question, his only answer is often that everything wrong in the world is Bush's fault. So what? Even if that were true, it is irrelevant for finding solutions to today's problems. This is what frustrates me the most about American politics today. It is far more important to place blame on the other party than to find answers.
Let's come up with big idea solutions; debate the merit or lack of merit in those ideas and move forward. I could spend three pages here stating what I didn't like about the Bush administration, but it would be nothing more than a waste of energy.
I would like to say I watched Jim Cramer briefly when he first came on the air. Back then, Cramer was into predicting what the market was going to do the following day which is sheer folly. Needless to say, he was wrong at least half the time, but somehow he would always act if his predictions were correct. Jim Cramer is indeed a phony.
On the cable shows it seems like what you need for ratings is to 1) scream loudly, 2) act obnoxious, and 3) insult people.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2009 21:25:59 GMT -5
I don't understand this. Is Obama not proposing solutions? He certainly isn't standing back and blaming it all on W.
Second, I am not focused on W. The problem is that things will not get better until businesses stop letting employees go. They seem to think it'll turn around if they get leaner. It will not.
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 9, 2009 10:06:18 GMT -5
No Obama is not proposing solutions..He is proposing a different tactic.
You come to a fork in the road..
TEST how many ways can you turn?
You can turn LEFT...as OBAMA has done .
or turn RIGHT as conservatives want..
You can go back the way you came..BUSH..but the voters didn't want that.
Another analogy..
You are sailing a ship with only the wind to power you..
You can always go down wind /the easiest way..but may never get where you want to go...
Or learn to Tack against the wind and learn to navigate.
Obama has chosen the easiest way..down wind anti BUSH..anti business and populist.
He won the election and right to captain the ship..but should defer steerage to more seasoned helmsmen who have chartered these waters before.
If you sail into a out going tide you may never reach port.
Timing and experience is needed and OBAMA has neither.
Just saying you need to turn left to be different is not enough.
Sailing down wind and only going where the wind blows you is not the correct course all the time.
and yes this is OBAMA'S ship now..not BUSH'S.
If he didn't want the captains job..he should have stayed on shore.
You see the poor are like the old slaves of Africa...
They are willing to sail anywhere with any one to get away.
Its only when they discover where they have been led to may be just as bad ..if not worst.
"I'm your Captain..."
"Come sail away with me..."
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2009 10:17:10 GMT -5
No Obama is not proposing solutions..He is proposing a different tactic. You come to a fork in the road.. TEST how many ways can you turn? You can turn LEFT...as OBAMA has done . or turn RIGHT as conservatives want.. You can go back the way you came..BUSH..but the voters didn't want that. Another analogy.. You are sailing a ship with only the wind to power you.. You can always go down wind /the easiest way..but may never get where you want to go... Or learn to Tack against the wind and learn to navigate. Obama has chosen the easiest way..down wind anti BUSH..anti business and populist. You do realize you just contradicted yourself, right? Tell me, is he following Bush's course or is he not? You need to make up your mind. Who says it's a fork anyhow? Maybe there are more than two choices. Now there's a radical idea. You think he's not relying on economic experts? Or is he relying on his "gut", like Cap'n Bush? Again, make up your mind. Your point being? That's pretty damned insensitive (and incredibly untrue) even for you. Wow. Just wow. So the slaves were lining up to come to America. It was only when they found out they had to work that they objected? OK. All that nonsense aside, this is still the deal here: Obama et al are trying to steer us out of the storm. We'll see if it works or not. However, the reaction of the stock market -- ESPECIALLY in the short term -- is not the test of whether it's the right course or not. Do I know? Hell, no. |
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