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Post by bigfan on Mar 12, 2009 11:22:30 GMT -5
The fact that Bill thinks Washington, Jefferson and Franklin were religious men shows how little he can bring to this potluck. Everyone else is offering a main dish. Bill's bringing napkins. Maybe it's more like one dirty plastic spoon. Liberal and godless as charged. Bill you are getting your butt kicked! ROTFLOL! |
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 12, 2009 12:26:54 GMT -5
No way!!
Today the Governor of DELAWARE wants to legalize sports gambling...so they can TAX IT.
What's next pot?
Like Calif. ?
why not legalize SEX (hookers) so we can tax it..
married people would truly enjoy the penalty of paying LESS!
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 12, 2009 12:38:26 GMT -5
Like many other upper-class, educated citizens of the new republic, including George Washington, Jefferson was a deist. Deists differed from traditional Christians by rejecting miraculous occurrences and prophecies and embracing the notion of a well-ordered universe created by a God who withdrew into detached transcendence. Critics of the time regarded deism as an ill-conceived attempt to reconcile religion with scientific discoveries. For rationalists in the Age of Enlightenment, deism was one of many efforts to liberate humankind from what the deists viewed as superstitious beliefs. Jefferson was a particular fan of Joseph Priestley, a scientist, ordained minister and one of Jefferson's friends. Priestley -- who discovered oxygen and invented carbonated water and the rubber eraser -- published books that infamously cast a critical eye upon biblical miracles. Jefferson was particularly fond of Preistley's comparison of the lives and teachings of Socrates and Jesus. Discussions and letters between Jefferson and another friend, Philadelphia physician Benjamin Rush, led Jefferson to compile his "wee little book." In a letter to Rush on April 21, 1803, Jefferson said his editing experiment aimed to see whether the ethical teachings of Jesus could be separated from elements he believed were attached to Christianity over the centuries. "To the corruption of Christianity I am indeed opposed," he wrote to Rush, "but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself." Therefore, Ritchie said, "for Jefferson, the Bible was a book that could be made and unmade." The Jefferson Bible remained largely unknown beyond a close circle of relatives and friends until 1904, when its publication was ordered by Congress. About 9,000 copies were issued and distributed in the Senate and the House. Today several editions of the Jefferson Bible are available through booksellers. A few online versions exist, including one on the website of the Jefferson Monticello, www.monticello.org/library/links/jefferson.html. It is hard to say whether Jefferson would have objected to publication of the book. "Say nothing of my religion," Jefferson once said. "It is known to myself and my God alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life; if that has been honest and dutiful to society, the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one." From the La Times article. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2009 13:05:31 GMT -5
You've quoted an article that backs up our contention that you are wrong. Bravo!
On top of that, just think of the advancements of the past 250 years, especially in science. Do you honestly think J, W and F would not have been affected by them?
I really don't understand why people are so determined to be guided by strict readings of documents written 250 years ago. Let alone by documents written over 2000 years ago.
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 12, 2009 13:19:05 GMT -5
No..
Washington and Jefferson believed in GOD..
just not an organized religion..they had religion.
Pt. me.
So ,because you HATE history,you want law written by the mob rule of the DAY?
You want the poor ,STUPID MOB to rule others by sheer numbers?
You want a Government of corrupt,non religious.. individuals bent on ruling by taxing the hard work of others to give a free ride to those who merely think they deserve it?
No wonder you don't want to follow history or religion.
You want anarchy..mob rule.
Pt. me
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 12, 2009 13:37:17 GMT -5
George Washington - first President of the United States of America What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ. - George Washington It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible. - George Washington It is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor. - George Washington Samuel Adams, Signer of the Declaration of Independence I ... [rely] upon the merits of Jesus Christ for a pardon of all my sins. - Samuel Adams The name of the Lord (says the Scripture) is a strong tower; thither the righteous flee and are safe (Proverbs 18:10). Let us secure His favor and He will lead us through the journey of this life and at length receive us to a better. - Samuel Adams United States Congressional Endorsement of the Bible and God Congress printed a Bible for America and said: "The United States in Congress assembled ... recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States ... a neat edition of the Holy Scriptures for the use of schools." - United States Congress 1782 Congress passed this resolution: "The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools." - United States Congress 1782 By Law the United States Congress adds to US coinage: "In God We Trust" - United States Congress 1864  |
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Post by mikegarrison on Mar 12, 2009 14:36:56 GMT -5
Poor Iraqis. Nobody gives a rat's ass about them anymore, I guess. I should have started a thread called "The Beginning of the VolleyTalk Civil War". I have the same objection ... the poll would need an "it's already started" choice. But really, what do mean by "anymore"? That implies an assumption of previous level of concern for them; an assumption which I'm not sure is justified. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2009 15:56:09 GMT -5
No.. Washington and Jefferson believed in GOD.. just not an organized religion..they had religion. Pt. me. That is NOT what you said. Second, their definition of "god" was very different from that of your run-of-the-mill Christian. I do think you know this. My point, again, is that this was in the 18th Century. Just imagine how they would view things today. Where did these straw men come from? But here's where we will always differ Bill: 1) I don't think wealth NECESSARILY is the byproduct of hard work, and I definitely don't equate poverty with failure (or with laziness); 2) I wholly support a progressive income tax; it is the ONLY way to have a just society in a capitalist system. Where does this bit about history come into play? You mean tradition? No, I don't want to follow tradition for tradition's sake. That's why I'm glad slavery was abolished and women were granted the right to vote, to name just two major changes since our country's founding. Point you if we're playing a game of Utter Nonsense. If that's what we're doing, I concede right now. My points: 1) I don't believe we should run a country by superstition. 2) I don't think there's any reason to continue doing something just because you've always done it that way. Is it reasonable? rational? sensible? These should be the deciding factors. 3) You should not use straw men or made up facts to support your arguments. 4) Money does NOT equal success, nor does the LACK thereof equal failure. I probably have more in this argument. I'm a pointy guy. But that will be it for now. As for poor Iraq, I was against the war. I was actually FOR the surge. I felt we owed it to the country. But it's getting to the point where we need to let them take ownership. |
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Post by goGopherBill on Mar 12, 2009 16:00:58 GMT -5
well uncle Mike.. To have a war you must fight. I am now going to tie this whole thread up into a neat knot of thought even R might understand. The war in IRAQ(civil war) was over Religion and imposing 1 view or thought over another. R brought up how the times have changed and science should trump faith.. Quite correctly in terms or ruling or governing a nation. I brought up the fact that God and religion can be a guide or moral compass to lead everyone in that direction...Governing for the best interest of a Nation. Others have brought up stuff.. relevant or not..that shows diversity of thought is a plus ,not a negative. IRAQIS and all people of the world need to EDUCATE themselves that religion is not the end game...but the guidelines or rules that allow us as citizens of the world to play peacefully or interact with each other,without any war. We at Vt can argue,debate,tease,rip or call each other names..for fun,entertainment..for education..but not for civil war. Diversity of thought ,no manner how corrupted...or non conservative must be allowed to buy the pop corn at any given VB match! Please continue to play along.. Pt me..set and match.. zzzzz i hate being right most of my time. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2009 16:09:40 GMT -5
I hesitate to play the FOX News random, out-of-context quote game, but:
"I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life, I absenteed myself from Christian assemblies."
"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
Ben Franklin
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What has been its fruits? More or less, in all places, pride and indolence in the clergy; ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry, and persecution."
James Madison
"The divinity of Jesus is made a convenient cover for absurdity."
"This would be the best of all possible worlds, if there were no religion in it."
John Adams
"History I believe furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose. "
"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."
"Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity."
"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerve in the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding, and restore to us the primitive and genuine doctrines of this most venerated reformer of human errors."
"Religions are all alike – founded upon fables and mythologies."
"I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature."
"Christianity is the most perverted system that ever shone on man."
"It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."
Thomas Jefferson
"The most formidable weapon against errors of every kind is reason. I have never used any other, and I trust I never shall."
"Revelation is a communication of something which the person to whom the thing id revealed did not know before. For if I have done, a thing, or seen it done, it needs no Revelation to tell me, I have done or seen it done nor enable me to tell it or write it. Revelation therefore cannot be applied to anything done upon earth, of which man is himself actor or witness and consequently all the historical part of the Bible which is almost the whole of it, is not within the meaning and compass of the word Revelation and therefore is not the Word of God."
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit. "
Thomas Paine
"This guy Bill. The bowler in Minnesota? God help us!!"
George Washington
Confession: One of these quotes was made up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2009 16:14:15 GMT -5
well uncle Mike.. I brought up the fact that God and religion can be a guide or moral compass to lead everyone in that direction...Governing for the best interest of a Nation. Unfortunately, this is not how it works in practice. I wish it were not the case, but religions BY DEFINITION are not mutually compatible. On top of that, there's way too much nonsense involved with most of them. As for Iraq -- and Afghanistan -- it's their choice, ultimately. They will choose how they wish to govern. Some may WANT them to worship at the altar of Milton Friedman, but it ain't going to happen. |
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Post by bigfan on Mar 13, 2009 10:10:18 GMT -5
why not legalize SEX (hookers) so we can tax it.. Already being done in Nevada. |
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