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Post by lonewolf on Nov 14, 2010 20:42:59 GMT -5
Oh, when did the stop having one? When they last expanded? My bad! 2004 was the last time they had one.
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Post by tomclen on Nov 14, 2010 21:18:10 GMT -5
I'm not sure Oregon can continue to claim their win over Washington as their one 'good win.' Washington is now 7-7 in the Pac-10
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Post by austintatious on Nov 14, 2010 21:24:54 GMT -5
I think Tulsa may have clinched, not positive. At worst, one more win should do it. Don't see how you could have them on bubble.
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Post by ccman on Nov 14, 2010 21:27:23 GMT -5
"I'm not sure Oregon can continue to claim their win over Washington as their one 'good win.' Washington is now 7-7 in the Pac-10"
I am sure they will continue to make that claim, they are counting on it to make the tournament. IMO, Oregon has to go at least 2-2 to get into the tournament.
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Post by ccman on Nov 14, 2010 21:34:35 GMT -5
austin, I don't understand your comment. Can you point to where I have Tulsa on the bubble??
BTW, they have not clinched - SMU could still win Conf. USA, unlikely as it is. Tulsa finishes with Rice, Houston, SMU.
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Post by austintatious on Nov 14, 2010 21:39:03 GMT -5
austin, I don't understand your comment. Can you point to where I have Tulsa on the bubble?? BTW, they have not clinched - SMU could still win Conf. USA, unlikely as it is. As for Tulsa, I actually consider putting Tulsa on the bubble. Read more: www.volleytalk.net/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=35438&page=1#ixzz15JZsrQwSYou have them in your grid as IN but in your next post you stated "As for Tulsa, I actually consider putting Tulsa on the bubble.: That is what I was referring too. Wasn't sure how many losses SMU had and how many matches are left that is why I thought they may have clinched. All in all, I think your grid is dang good.
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Post by ccman on Nov 14, 2010 21:44:19 GMT -5
thank Austin, as you pointed out, I don't have them on the bubble Now they need to beat Rice, beat Houston, Beat SMU and remove ALL doubt. I looked at their roster. Wow, they are a very short team - doesn't mean they can't beat taller teams, but their lack of height across the board I've got to believe is going to be a challenge when they go against a top 16 team in the tournament.
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Post by elevationvb on Nov 14, 2010 23:14:32 GMT -5
elevatorvb, 1) I don't know that Tulsa is going to win the conf auto bid. They are the favorite for sure. 2) I don't list Rice as one of the closest bubble teams. I've have and had SMU ahead of Rice. I have SMU listed as one of the last out if you read last teams out section. You are correct that after this weekend I could probably put a fork in Rice. 3) Indiana State did not LOSE a single game prior to getting to the NCAA final against Mich. State, so I really don't understand your analogy. Tulsa losing to Milwaukee would be like Indiana State losing to Evansville. 4) The way Tulsa is winning is encouraging. It would be more impressive if they actually had a signature win. 5) I'm not an expert, and I'm sure Tyler Henderson is great. But again, look at the records of the Conference USA teams - nothing stands out. Having lots of wins is great, but considering the competition is not really a good indicator for the tournament. Hawaii, Duke, Tulsa ALL have the same issue. Good Luck!! It's obvious you have no respect for Conference USA which is your right. But in my opinion, it's leading you to make some incorrect / flippant comments with a lack of knowledge. For example, you make references to the very large Conference USA and the number of matches they play against each other. They have 12 teams and play 20 conference matches. The Big 12 has 11 teams playing volleyball and play 20 conference matches. The Big 20 has 11 teams playing volleyball and play 20 conference matches. ACC = 12 teams. I won't even go into the Big East. So there is nothing unusual about Conf. USA and their membership as opposed to other conferences. Tulsa lost their 2 matches opening weekend - one in 5 sets - - so I think they can be cut some slack for losing way back in August & winning all matches since. And if they happen to lose 2 conference matches and end up 2nd, I am confident they would still get a bid. Just to restate - - you listed Rice as a bubble team out and left out Houston. Rice has been done for a couple of weeks. Houston has been in front of them for a couple of weeks. You have a lot of excellent information in your posts and are to be commended, but there is also some suspect info, in my opinion.
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Post by ccman on Nov 14, 2010 23:39:14 GMT -5
thank you elevatorvb,
"It's obvious you have no respect for Conference USA which is your right...."
I simply do not understand that statement.
Can you point out specifically what is disrespectful to Conference USA? That I have them as a 1 bid conference at this point? That I have SMU as a bubble out team? That I had Rice as a bubble team? Are you getting hung up on my having Rice listed - I've already stated they are probably done as an at-large.
Go back and see what I wrote about Houston. I commend Houston (and Rice) for their scheduling out of conference.
Look at it this way - Why don't you provide a list of out of conference wins by Conference USA teams that you consider to be significant?
How many other conference 1st place teams has Tulsa/Rice/Houston/SMU beaten??
I'm not sure where you get this impression that I'm not cutting Tulsa any "slack". Am I just supposed to look at their conference dominance? I believe, based on quality wins (or lack thereof) by Tulsa and other conference members, that Tulsa should not bank on an invite if they don't win the conference.
There is little I can gleam from Hawaii's conference performance to suggest they are a top 4 team. I think they are a top 16 team, but it's hard to really gauge them as a top 4 team. Does that mean I disrespect them? Or that they can't get to the final 4 - of course not.
I'm not totally confident (and if I were Tulsa, I wouldn't be confident either) that Tulsa could lose 2 of their last 3 and still get an at-large, I'm not saying this out of disrespect, but out of the reality created by their schedule. I agree a lot can change from August, but at the same time, a significant component of information available to gauge how differing conferences and teams compare occurs in August/September.
If you notice, I rated Duke as the most overrated team. They are a good team, but when I look at the non-conference results of a Duke or Conference USA teams, their non-conference performance suggests they (like Tulsa) will have difficulty winning more than 1 match in the tournament.
It is unfortunate Tulsa did not play Oklahoma or Missouri or Texas, because we'd know more. Hopefully they'll upgrade their schedule in the future.
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Post by elevationvb on Nov 14, 2010 23:45:17 GMT -5
thank you elevatorvb, "It's obvious you have no respect for Conference USA which is your right...." I simply do not understand that statement. Can you point out specifically what is disrespectful to Conference USA? That I have them as a 1 bid conference at this point? That I have SMU as a bubble out team? That I had Rice as a bubble team? Are you getting hung up on my having Rice listed - I've already stated they are probably done as an at-large. Go back and see what I wrote about Houston. I commend Houston (and Rice) for their scheduling out of conference. Look at it this way - Why don't you provide a list of out of conference wins by Conference USA teams that you consider to be significant? How many other conference 1st place teams has Tulsa/Rice/Houston/SMU beaten?? I'm not sure where you get this impression that I'm not cutting Tulsa any "slack". Am I just supposed to look at their conference dominance? I believe, based on quality wins (or lack thereof) by Tulsa and other conference members, that Tulsa should not bank on an invite if they don't win the conference. There is little I can gleam from Hawaii's conference performance to suggest they are a top 4 team. I think they are a top 16 team, but it's hard to really gauge them as a top 4 team. Does that mean I disrespect them? Or that they can't get to the final 4 - of course not. I'm not totally confident (and if I were Tulsa, I wouldn't be confident either) that Tulsa could lose 2 of their last 3 and still get an at-large, I'm not saying this out of disrespect, but out of the reality created by their schedule. I agree a lot can change from August, but at the same time, a significant component of information available to gauge how differing conferences and teams compare occurs in August/September. If you notice, I rated Duke as the most overrated team. They are a good team, but when I look at the non-conference results of a Duke or Conference USA teams, their non-conference performance suggests they (like Tulsa) will have difficulty winning more than 1 match in the tournament. It is unfortunate Tulsa did not play Oklahoma or Missouri or Texas, because we'd know more. Hopefully they'll upgrade their schedule in the future. As for Tulsa, I actually consider putting Tulsa on the bubble. They played a patsy out of conference schedule and LOST to Milwaukee and St. Louis. Yuk. They, like Rice, SMU, Houston have gobbles of wins in the very large Conference USA.You come across as if CUSA is different from other conferences because of their very large amount of teams. If Tulsa is so weak schedule wise, why are they ranked as #25? What do the voters no know that you know about?
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Post by HawaiiVB on Nov 14, 2010 23:47:13 GMT -5
as we say in hawai'i WHATEVAHS. Hawai'i aka Dave Shoji wrote the book on being the underdog. He is the most winningest active coach in Div 1. When the peddle goes to the meddle we will see all about your seedings. Last year everyone said the same thing about Hawai'i New Mexico, Illinois, USC and Michigan found out about how good Hawai'i really is and here is the kicker the team returns four starters and added pretty good freshmen and transfer alike. So place them low place them high it doesn't matter.
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Post by ccman on Nov 15, 2010 0:02:49 GMT -5
ElevatorVB.
Look at Tulane & Tulsa. Who have they beat out of conference?
Look at SMU. Who have they beat out of conference?
As far as Tulsa being ranked #25, it's probably because of the number of wins accumulated, the AVCA is somewhat of a pecking order ranking, and frankly there really is not a lot that separates #20 to #50. There's a certain cache to being top 25, but frankly, once you get past the first 12 or so teams, most teams in the top 50 can knock each other off.
Go look at Houston's schedule and look at Tulsa's and you tell me who had a tougher schedule? It's not even close.
And now we have HawaiiVB getting 'bent'. Not sure what that is about! They split with the LA schools, so that makes them about #6-#12, without much we can go on by virtue of playing in the WAC - why is that such a big deal?
Hey, I'd love it if Hawaii is the National Champion, I'm sick of seeing 12 years of Big-10/Pac-10/Big-12 winners. go Hawaii, go Tulsa, go Dayton, go NI, go Beach!!
As far as getting into the tournament - hope is not a plan - and all the bubble teams (and Tulsa) should take care of business and not give a committee member a reason to vote them out.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Nov 15, 2010 0:22:20 GMT -5
Assuming C-USA has a tournament, then Tulsa has to win it to make it to the tournament.
They aren't anywhere CLOSE to getting an at-large berth.
Who cares about who they beat in their non-conference schedule. Who did they beat in their conference schedule?
The committee does not take teams who have not even played a top 50 team, much less not beaten one.
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Nov 15, 2010 0:45:11 GMT -5
Assuming C-USA has a tournament, then Tulsa has to win it to make it to the tournament. They aren't anywhere CLOSE to getting an at-large berth. Who cares about who they beat in their non-conference schedule. Who did they beat in their conference schedule? UCSB and Washington State, that's about it.
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Post by sinjin on Nov 15, 2010 1:19:30 GMT -5
Assuming C-USA has a tournament, then Tulsa has to win it to make it to the tournament. They aren't anywhere CLOSE to getting an at-large berth. Who cares about who they beat in their non-conference schedule. Who did they beat in their conference schedule? The committee does not take teams who have not even played a top 50 team, much less not beaten one. hogwash,, the committee let in clemson in 2009 who didnt beat, or play anyone.
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