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Post by Phaedrus on Nov 17, 2010 9:46:56 GMT -5
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Post by TheSantaBarbarian on Nov 17, 2010 18:13:26 GMT -5
Disgusting, including the 5th circuit ruling on free speech.
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 17, 2010 18:27:01 GMT -5
Mmm. The free speech ruling makes sense. We have the right to "freedom of association." That means she can't be forced to join the cheerleading squad, but neither can the squad be forced to have her be a member. There are exceptions (protected classes, etc.), but I think from a First Amendment standpoint no one was forcing her to cheer for the player because no one was forcing her to be on the cheer squad.
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Post by TheSantaBarbarian on Nov 17, 2010 20:39:26 GMT -5
So if a cheerleader (or player) refuses to place their hand over their heart during the national anthem, if it is in the team rules, they should be thrown off their team? It is ridiculous to say that a cheerleader must cheer for her attacker or be forced off the squad.
Actually, remove the reference about the player. Had a star basketball and football player been in that situation, he would have been surrounded by all the school officials as well, promising to lay down their lives for his right to free speech.
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 17, 2010 23:18:06 GMT -5
I'm not saying the school was in the right, morally or ethically. But freedom of association is guaranteed legally.
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Post by OverAndUnder on Nov 18, 2010 12:02:32 GMT -5
So if a cheerleader (or player) refuses to place their hand over their heart during the national anthem, if it is in the team rules, they should be thrown off their team? Yes. If your beliefs prohibit you from participating within the rules, then clearly you can't participate.
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Post by VBCOACH on Nov 18, 2010 18:08:03 GMT -5
So if a cheerleader (or player) refuses to place their hand over their heart during the national anthem, if it is in the team rules, they should be thrown off their team? Yes. If your beliefs prohibit you from participating within the rules, then clearly you can't participate. I don't think so. This is America. Freedom of Speech also allows us to protest. During the Vietnam war, a football player at my old high school refused to take off his helmet during the pre-game playing of The National Anthem, as a protest to our involvement in Vietnam. It was a big story locally...might even have gotten National Press...I can't remember. He continued to protest in this manor throughout the football season. He was allowed to remain on the team. He was not disciplined in any way.
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 18, 2010 19:04:44 GMT -5
During the Vietnam war, a football player at my old high school refused to take off his helmet during the pre-game playing of The National Anthem, as a protest to our involvement in Vietnam. It was a big story locally...might even have gotten National Press...I can't remember. He continued to protest in this manor throughout the football season. He was allowed to remain on the team. He was not disciplined in any way. So? That was the choice of the team in question. If they had chosen to kick him off the team, that would have been their legal right. Freedom of speech does not mean, and has never meant, freedom from consequences of your speech.
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Post by VBCOACH on Nov 18, 2010 21:41:54 GMT -5
During the Vietnam war, a football player at my old high school refused to take off his helmet during the pre-game playing of The National Anthem, as a protest to our involvement in Vietnam. It was a big story locally...might even have gotten National Press...I can't remember. He continued to protest in this manor throughout the football season. He was allowed to remain on the team. He was not disciplined in any way. So? That was the choice of the team in question. If they had chosen to kick him off the team, that would have been their legal right. Freedom of speech does not mean, and has never meant, freedom from consequences of your speech. LEGAL right? I don't think that he school had the LEGAL right to discipline him for expressing his opinion (protesting) especially his political opinion. He did not disrupt the game in any way. P. S. Speech is not free if you have to pay consequences for it.
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Post by amjohnston on Nov 19, 2010 10:30:30 GMT -5
I'm not sure the point of this is whether the school had the legal right to take actions against but whether it should have--wouldn't you think that rationale adults would not put her in this situation?
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Post by VBCOACH on Nov 19, 2010 14:35:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure the point of this is whether the school had the legal right to take actions against but whether it should have--wouldn't you think that rationale adults would not put her in this situation? Right! But where do you think that you're going to find any rational adults?
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Post by sevb on Nov 19, 2010 21:21:20 GMT -5
I'm not sure the point of this is whether the school had the legal right to take actions against but whether it should have--wouldn't you think that rationale adults would not put her in this situation? Right! But where do you think that you're going to find any rational adults? The LAST place I would look as of late would be in any athletics setting!
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Post by rhinovb14 on Nov 20, 2010 12:06:03 GMT -5
The article pretty much sums up why society is messed up. Adults with the "Do as I say not as I do" mentality. Although I must say MOST school officials would not behave like this. I suspect that the East Texas mentality has a lot to do with this.
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Post by TexVB on Dec 27, 2010 13:27:53 GMT -5
This is revolting. Makes me embarrassed to say I'm a Texan. Hope the family gets millions and hope the two thugs get their dues also. Not only would I not cheer for them, I'd find some way to make them experience the same humiliation and pain.
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Post by OptimusPrime on Dec 28, 2010 20:16:06 GMT -5
The article pretty much sums up why society is messed up. Adults with the "Do as I say not as I do" mentality. Although I must say MOST school officials would not behave like this. I suspect that the East Texas mentality has a lot to do with this. As a FORMER resident of the great state of TEXAS, I do not appreciate the comment about the East Texas mentality!!! However, I also feel necessary to add that I do most certainly agree with VBballer... The sick young athlete needs to pay for his behavior...
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