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Post by ja on Nov 11, 2011 13:21:23 GMT -5
Athletes always want coaches to be honest. I think most coaches want athletes to be honest with them. Couple scenarios for both parties. One, is to keep quiet and just play out your Spring and money, telling Coach that you will transfer by the end of school year. In this situation, you can even ask coach to help you to find a new school. Another, talk to SWA and ask for release. Release does not mean that you will leave, it's just permission to talk to other schools. In any case, follow NCAA transfer rules to the dot! Your eligibility at stake!
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Post by abugslife on Nov 11, 2011 14:40:45 GMT -5
Athletes always want coaches to be honest. I think most coaches want athletes to be honest with them. Couple scenarios for both parties. One, is to keep quiet and just play out your Spring and money, telling Coach that you will transfer by the end of school year. In this situation, you can even ask coach to help you to find a new school. Another, talk to SWA and ask for release. Release does not mean that you will leave, it's just permission to talk to other schools. In any case, follow NCAA transfer rules to the dot! Your eligibility at stake! You are right that a release doesnt mean you leave but if I am coach you don't have a scholarship here the next year. Coach has to protect the program and allowing a girl to have a release to look around but then still have a scholarship is not happening with me. Once you ask for your release, which is fine, you have forfeited scholarship for the next years.
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dusty
Junior High
Posts: 4
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Post by dusty on Nov 11, 2011 15:15:03 GMT -5
Wow. I didn't expect to get hammered here. Perhaps more info: Daughter is a sophmore setter and the staff that recruited her left after freshman season. The whole team worried about whether scholarships would be renewed by new coach...the whole team was told they would have a place on team this year. However he lied, and told 2 walk-ons to split after spring and their athletic housing is gone...in May. The coach brought in a transfer setter (his girl) and despite daughter having conference top performances in both seasons (incl. a 61A/4 set match this yr) she is glued to the bench. This despite the team suiting up only 9 (due to defections and injuries, probably due to the rigorous non volleyball training they continue to do, including 2 hr practices before games). Our record is 5-24 going into final weekend, eliminated from conference tournament and daughter says last weeks practices were "Like Hell. Worse that spring." Coach has an incoming freshman setter signed. School has 11 scholarships and my daughter is will NOT be asked back. It's just my best guess, but I swear he is doing everything to get her to quit. NCAA has her bound to this program like an indentured slave, she can't go to college next semester anywhere else now, even if she gave up vb. She's 2000 mi from home and would have to pay out of state tuition to stay.
So you guys are saying that the 1 year scholarship is only 1 semester scholarship? She would have to stay and get beat up during spring, and at the end of spring the coach says you are not getting your scholarship renewed and tough tushies? That's cool? Everyone is OK with that? At that point she can't even go to school next year, let alone play volleyball. And you'all make it sound likes she/I are a bunch of whiney manipulating weanies for wanting her to get on with her life. She busted her behind all year, stuck it out and she may not even get permission to talk to other teams if the AD says no? How does that make sense? Would she have lost her scholarship for the first semester if she quit last week? I thought it was a one year scholarship and she did her full year of her sport's season...Guess I was wrong.
I do appreciate all your comments, sorry if I'm getting off here...
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Post by sevb on Nov 11, 2011 15:34:33 GMT -5
DD has two years left-take the high road and tell the coach! Worst case she moves home for spring! Sounds like she is no longer in the right place for her.... Sever the tie and move on!
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Post by abugslife on Nov 11, 2011 15:51:11 GMT -5
Wow. I didn't expect to get hammered here. Perhaps more info: Daughter is a sophmore setter and the staff that recruited her left after freshman season. The whole team worried about whether scholarships would be renewed by new coach...the whole team was told they would have a place on team this year. However he lied, and told 2 walk-ons to split after spring and their athletic housing is gone...in May. The coach brought in a transfer setter (his girl) and despite daughter having conference top performances in both seasons (incl. a 61A/4 set match this yr) she is glued to the bench. This despite the team suiting up only 9 (due to defections and injuries, probably due to the rigorous non volleyball training they continue to do, including 2 hr practices before games). Our record is 5-24 going into final weekend, eliminated from conference tournament and daughter says last weeks practices were "Like Hell. Worse that spring." Coach has an incoming freshman setter signed. School has 11 scholarships and my daughter is will NOT be asked back. It's just my best guess, but I swear he is doing everything to get her to quit. NCAA has her bound to this program like an indentured slave, she can't go to college next semester anywhere else now, even if she gave up vb. She's 2000 mi from home and would have to pay out of state tuition to stay. So you guys are saying that the 1 year scholarship is only 1 semester scholarship? She would have to stay and get beat up during spring, and at the end of spring the coach says you are not getting your scholarship renewed and tough tushies? That's cool? Everyone is OK with that? At that point she can't even go to school next year, let alone play volleyball. And you'all make it sound likes she/I are a bunch of whiney manipulating weanies for wanting her to get on with her life. She busted her behind all year, stuck it out and she may not even get permission to talk to other teams if the AD says no? How does that make sense? Would she have lost her scholarship for the first semester if she quit last week? I thought it was a one year scholarship and she did her full year of her sport's season...Guess I was wrong. I do appreciate all your comments, sorry if I'm getting off here... What you just said differs 100% from your original story that your DD wants to get a release, wants to not do anything at all during the spring but still keep her scholarship for the spring. Either she wants to leave or she is getting cut- pick which one it is. Scholarships are for 1 complete school year not a season. You don't get to play your sport for a season and then get a free ride for the next semester. If she wants to move on with her life then ask for the release, get all her crap, move her home, and look for a school there. She will be able to move on with her life. You want it all. You want release, money, do nothing, and look for a school. Probably won't happen. Not sure what you mean about the indentured servant. She is player- she has to work hard. I mean does he have her washing floors and cleaning the cars?? To me it sounds like an upset parent whose kid isn't playing. It you want to do it right, after season your daughter talks with coach to see if scholarship will be renewed and gets it in writing. If he says it won't be then that means she still gets the spring paid for, she can get her release and everyone will be happy. If the scholarship will be renewed then you stay or quit and figure out what to do for the spring. Sorry.
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dusty
Junior High
Posts: 4
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Post by dusty on Nov 11, 2011 17:17:51 GMT -5
First of all: "Either she wants to leave or she is getting cut- pick which one it is." Is not an either-or. She is, as sure as I can tell, likely to not be asked back AND (of course) doesn't want to deal with a coach/program that doesn't want her. Would you want to do spring if there was no season next year?
It's very hard to express exactly the circumstances in a paragraph or two, and it's hard to not sound like daddy-mad-at-not-daughter not playing, but some of my points you may have misconstrued were to show substantiation she doesn't fit into their future. The "indentured slave" remark is that right now she cannot even TRY to talk to talk to ANYONE in the volleyball world (NCAA rules) and may not even if she asks to leave, which the college can chose to withhold unilaterally. The coach can keep her on, at his discretion, and let her know in May she is not coming back and she is left high and dry. That, my friend, is not a free system.
And no she isn't "washing the floors and cleaning the cars." She is going to PT, practice, film, weights, walk arounds, team dinners, recruiting dinners, hanging posters, visiting children's hospitals, missing classes, and taking 4-16 hour weekend bus rides. Oh yeah, plus that going to college thing. C'mon MC.
I do understand she signed a one year deal. No one is looking for "it all." THEY asked HER to come out there and now they don't want her back. So she should get the short straw because they have a change in program?
That being said I do see a nugget of wisdom in your comment. Say she asks if her scholarship will be renewed after the season ("in writing", indeed). If they say yes, well, she has a decision to make. If they say no can they take her scholarship away? Will they make her practice as a lame duck setter? Or can she then finish out the year on the one year scholarship she signed, say thank you very much and move on?
So then this is my new question: Can she request after the season if she will have her scholarship renewed, and if it is not, does her scholarship stay intact for the remainder of her one year contract?
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Post by Not Me on Nov 11, 2011 17:44:31 GMT -5
The long and short of the answer to your question is: you won't know until you ask.
All schools are different. All AD's treat these situations differently.
If she wants to play somewhere else next year, she needs to ask for a release. She should take the high road, and say that she doesn't feel like the school is the right place for her, and she wants to move on.
If the coach say sure, no problem, then you are good to go.
IF the coach says sure, but we are pulling your scholarship, then you talk to the AD. If the AD agrees with the Coach, there is still an appeal process. If that fails, then maybe she just comes home for a semester, and goes to Community college while finding a new school.
If the coach says no release, no scholarship, no nothing, then you appeal or hire a lawyer.
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Post by abugslife on Nov 11, 2011 17:51:26 GMT -5
First of all: "Either she wants to leave or she is getting cut- pick which one it is." Is not an either-or. She is, as sure as I can tell, likely to not be asked back AND (of course) doesn't want to deal with a coach/program that doesn't want her. Would you want to do spring if there was no season next year? It's very hard to express exactly the circumstances in a paragraph or two, and it's hard to not sound like daddy-mad-at-not-daughter not playing, but some of my points you may have misconstrued were to show substantiation she doesn't fit into their future. The "indentured slave" remark is that right now she cannot even TRY to talk to talk to ANYONE in the volleyball world (NCAA rules) and may not even if she asks to leave, which the college can chose to withhold unilaterally. The coach can keep her on, at his discretion, and let her know in May she is not coming back and she is left high and dry. That, my friend, is not a free system. And no she isn't "washing the floors and cleaning the cars." She is going to PT, practice, film, weights, walk arounds, team dinners, recruiting dinners, hanging posters, visiting children's hospitals, missing classes, and taking 4-16 hour weekend bus rides. Oh yeah, plus that going to college thing. C'mon MC. I do understand she signed a one year deal. No one is looking for "it all." THEY asked HER to come out there and now they don't want her back. So she should get the short straw because they have a change in program? That being said I do see a nugget of wisdom in your comment. Say she asks if her scholarship will be renewed after the season ("in writing", indeed). If they say yes, well, she has a decision to make. If they say no can they take her scholarship away? Will they make her practice as a lame duck setter? Or can she then finish out the year on the one year scholarship she signed, say thank you very much and move on? So then this is my new question: Can she request after the season if she will have her scholarship renewed, and if it is not, does her scholarship stay intact for the remainder of her one year contract? If she finds out her scholarship will not be renewed then I would talk to ad and ask if there is anything that she can do other than practice because her scholarship is not being renewed. But to answer your question if scholarship is not renewed for following year they cannot take away the spring money.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Nov 11, 2011 18:10:58 GMT -5
If I were you, I would really, really, really edit your posts. You gave way too many details. Withing 1.5 minutes I was able to identify the school, and about 45 seconds more I found your player.. and I'm not even an insider. Any goodwill you might have can be easily erased if the coach/AD knows you were bitching on VT about this.
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Post by volleyguy on Nov 11, 2011 18:15:22 GMT -5
Please don't listen to these people. The request for a release (that is, request to speak to another institution about a transfer) is NOT a legitimate reason to cancel the scholarship award for the remaining semester. Just read the rules below carefully, and decide how you want to approach the coach. The problem, as you have witnessed on this board, is that some coaches act like jilted lovers whenever a player wants to leave, and react inappropriately.
15.3.2 Terms of Institutional Financial Aid Award. 15.3.2.1 Conformance to Institutional and Conference Regulations. Financial aid awarded by an institution to a student-athlete shall conform to the rules and regulations of the awarding institution and of that institution’s conference(s), if any. A violation of this bylaw that relates only to a violation of a conference rule shall be considered an institutional violation per Constitution 2.8.1; however, such a violation shall not affect the student-athlete’s eligibility. (Revised: 10/27/06) 15.3.2.2 Physical Condition of Student-Athlete. Financial aid awarded to a prospective student-athlete may not be conditioned on the recipient reporting in satisfactory physical condition. If a student-athlete has been accepted for admission and awarded financial aid, the institution shall be committed for the term of the original award, even if the student-athlete’s physical condition prevents him or her from participating in intercollegiate athletics. 15.3.2.3 Written Statement Requirement. In all cases, the institutional agency making the financial aid award shall give the recipient a written statement of the amount, duration, conditions and terms of the award. The chair of the regular committee or other agency for the awarding of financial aid to students generally, or the chair’s official designee, shall sign or electronically authorize (e.g., electronic signature) the written statement. The signature of the athletics director, attesting to the committee’s award, does not satisfy this requirement. (Revised: 3/10/04) 15.3.2.4 Hearing Opportunity. The institution’s regular financial aid authority shall notify the student-athlete in writing of the opportunity for a hearing when institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability is to be reduced or canceled during the period of the award, or is reduced or not renewed for the following academic year. The institution shall have established reasonable procedures for promptly hearing such a request and shall not delegate the responsibility for conducting the hearing to the university’s athletics department or its faculty athletics committee. The written notification of the opportunity for a hearing shall include a copy of the institution’s established policies and procedures for conducting the required hearing, including the deadline by which a student-athlete must request such a hearing. (Revised: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06, 4/3/07, 4/23/08) 15.3.2.4.1 Athletics Department Staff as Member of Committee. An institution’s athletics department staff member may be a member of a committee (other than an athletics department or faculty athletics committee) that conducts hearings related to the nonrenewal or reduction of a student-athlete’s financial aid. Under such circumstances, the athletics department staff member must be a standing member of the committee and may not serve as a member of a committee only for a specific student-athlete’s hearing. (Adopted: 4/3/07) 15.3.3 Period of Institutional Financial Aid Award. 15.3.3.1 One-Year Period. If a student’s athletics ability is considered in any degree in awarding financial aid, such aid shall neither be awarded for a period in excess of one academic year nor for a period less than one academic year (see Bylaw 15.01.5). (Revised: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06) 15.3.3.1.1 Exceptions. An institution may award athletically related financial aid to a student-athlete for a period of less than one academic year only under the following circumstances: (Adopted: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06) (a) Midyear Enrollment. A student-athlete whose first full-time attendance at the certifying institution during a particular academic year occurs at midyear (e.g., the beginning of the second semester or second or third quarter of an academic year) may receive a financial aid award for the remainder of that academic year. (Revised: 5/9/06) (b) Final Semester/Quarter. A student-athlete may receive athletically related financial aid for less than one academic year, provided the student is in the final semester or final two quarters of his or her degree program and the institution certifies that the student is carrying (for credit) the courses necessary to complete the degree requirements. (c) One-Time Exception. One time during a student-athlete’s enrollment at the certifying institution he or she may be awarded athletics aid for less than a full academic year, provided the student-athlete has not previously received athletically related financial aid from the certifying institution. (d) Eligibility Exhausted/Medical Noncounter. A student-athlete who has exhausted eligibility and is exempt from counting (per Bylaw 15.5.1.6) in the institution’s financial aid limit, or a studentathlete who is exempt from counting (per Bylaw 15.5.1.3) due to an injury or illness may receive athletically related financial aid for less than one academic year. If an institution awards aid under this provision, the institutional financial aid agreement shall include specific nonathletically related conditions (e.g., academic requirements) the student-athlete must satisfy in order for the aid to be 180 renewed for the next academic term or terms. If the student-athlete satisfies the specified conditions, the institution shall award financial aid at the same amount for the next term or terms of the academic year. If the student-athlete does not satisfy the specified conditions, he or she must be provided a hearing opportunity per Bylaw 15.3.2.4. (Adopted: 4/24/08 effective 8/1/08) 15.3.3.1.2 Financial Aid Authority Precedent. A staff member may inform a prospective studentathlete that the athletics department will recommend to the financial aid authority that the prospective student-athlete’s financial aid be renewed each year for a period of four years and may indicate that the authority always has followed the athletics department’s recommendations in the past. However, the prospective student-athlete must be informed that the renewal will not be automatic. 15.3.3.1.3 Injury or Illness Policy. It is not permissible for an institution to assure the prospective student-athlete that it automatically will continue a grant-in-aid past the one-year period if the recipient sustains an injury that prevents him or her from competing in intercollegiate athletics, but an institutional representative may inform the prospective student-athlete of the regular institutional policy related to renewal or continuation of aid past the one-year period for recipients who become ill or injured during their participation. 15.3.3.2 Regular Academic Year vs. Summer Term. An institution may award financial aid to a studentathlete for an academic year or, pursuant to the exceptions set forth in Bylaw 15.3.3.1.1, part thereof. An institution also may award financial aid for a summer term or summer-orientation period, provided the conditions of Bylaw 15.2.8 have been met. Such financial aid shall be awarded (as set forth in the written statement per Bylaw 15.3.2.3) in equal amounts for each term of the academic year. (Revised: 4/27/06 effective 8/1/06) 15.3.3.2.1 Summer Term as Additional Award. It is necessary to make an additional award for a summer term, inasmuch as a member institution is limited to the award of financial aid for a period not in excess of one academic year. 15.3.4 Increase, Reduction or Cancellation during Period of Award. 15.3.4.1 Increase Permitted. Institutional financial aid may be increased for any reason prior to the commencement of the period of the award. Once the period of the award begins, institutional aid may only be increased if the institution can demonstrate that such an increase is unrelated in any manner to an athletics reason. (Adopted: 1/11/94; Revised: 2/26/03, 4/23/08) 15.3.4.2 Reduction or Cancellation Permitted. Institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability may be reduced or canceled during the period of the award if the recipient: (Revised: 1/11/94, 1/10/95) (a) Renders himself or herself ineligible for intercollegiate competition; (b) Fraudulently misrepresents any information on an application, letter of intent or financial aid agreement (see Bylaw 15.3.4.2.3); (c) Engages in serious misconduct warranting substantial disciplinary penalty (see Bylaw 15.3.4.2.4); or (d) Voluntarily (on his or her own initiative) withdraws from a sport at any time for personal reasons; however, the recipient’s financial aid may not be awarded to another student-athlete in the academic term in which the aid was reduced or canceled. A student-athlete’s request for written permission to contact another four-year collegiate institution regarding a possible transfer does not constitute a voluntary withdrawal. (Revised: 1/10/92, 1/11/94, 1/10/95, 1/9/96, 12/13/05, 9/11/07) 15.3.4.2.1 Timing of Reduction or Cancellation. Any reduction or cancellation of aid during the period of the award may occur only after the student-athlete has been provided an opportunity for a hearing per Bylaw 15.3.2.4. (Revised: 4/23/08) 15.3.4.2.2 Nonathletically Related Conditions. An institutional financial aid agreement may include nonathletically related conditions (e.g., compliance with academics policies or standards, compliance with athletics department rules or policies) by which the aid may be reduced or canceled during the period of the award. (Adopted: 4/23/08) 15.3.4.2.3 Fraudulent Misrepresentation. If a student-athlete is awarded institutional financial aid on the basis of declaring intention to participate in a particular sport by signing a letter of intent, application or tender, action on the part of the grantee not to participate (either by not reporting for practice or after making only token appearances as determined by the institution) would constitute fraudulent misrepresentation of information on the grantee’s application, letter of intent or financial aid agreement and would permit the institution to cancel or reduce the financial aid. (Revised: 1/11/94) 15.3.4.2.4 Misconduct. An institution may cancel or reduce the financial aid of a student-athlete who is found to have engaged in misconduct by the university’s regular student disciplinary authority, even if the loss-of-aid requirement does not apply to the student body in general. (Revised: 1/11/94) 15.3.4.3 Reduction or Cancellation Not Permitted. Institutional financial aid based in any degree on athletics ability may not be reduced or canceled during the period of its award: (Adopted: 1/16/93; Revised: 1/11/94, 12/11/07)
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Post by sevb on Nov 11, 2011 18:56:32 GMT -5
Smh
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Post by gtvb1 on Nov 11, 2011 19:06:22 GMT -5
(d) Voluntarily (on his or her own initiative) withdraws from a sport at any time for personal reasons; however, the recipient’s financial aid may not be awarded to another student-athlete in the academic term in which the aid was reduced or canceled. A student-athlete’s request for written permission to contact another four-year collegiate institution regarding a possible transfer does not constitute a voluntary withdrawal. ------- This is the key, if they remove themself from the team they do not get financial aid. You can't just quit afer the fall season and expect to get your spring paid for. If you remain a part of the team your aid will be fulfilled for the year, but you can't just get a free ride and not participate.
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Post by gtvb1 on Nov 11, 2011 19:15:31 GMT -5
So you guys are saying that the 1 year scholarship is only 1 semester scholarship? She would have to stay and get beat up during spring, and at the end of spring the coach says you are not getting your scholarship renewed and tough tushies? That's cool? Everyone is OK with that? At that point she can't even go to school next year, let alone play volleyball. And you'all make it sound likes she/I are a bunch of whiney manipulating weanies for wanting her to get on with her life. She busted her behind all year, stuck it out and she may not even get permission to talk to other teams if the AD says no? How does that make sense? Would she have lost her scholarship for the first semester if she quit last week? I thought it was a one year scholarship and she did her full year of her sport's season...Guess I was wrong. She signed a letter of intent & subsequent renewals to be a part of the team for a year...not a semester. The AD/coach can say no to a release, that is up to them & you can appeal it. This is why you should pick a school 1st, team 2nd, and coach 3rd...it is all over these boards. If she transfers without a release, she would have to sit out a year. She has not played a year, she has played half a year. If she quits the team, she will not be paid her scholarship...same if you quit a job halfway through a contract, the contract is null and void if service is not provided. However, if she had quit last week I doubt the school would have asked her to pay for the remaining few weeks of this semester. They could legally do that, but it's probably not worth the hassle & accounting that goes into it. Personally, I am OK with this. I think that if you make a commitment you need to live up to it. That is how the world has always treated me & I expect nothing more.
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Post by volleyguy on Nov 11, 2011 19:49:29 GMT -5
No, the athlete is awarded a scholarship award for a year (except in limited cases). Under certain limited circumstances, which are outlined above, it can be revoked or reduced prior to the end of the year. A request by the athlete for permission to speak to another institution is specifically precluded as a reason to reduce the scholarship. As has been noted, permission to speak and a release are two separate things.
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Post by UCSBVball on Nov 11, 2011 19:49:58 GMT -5
My daughter was not happy at her college – full ride scholarship – she talked with the coach, got a release and recommendation. She then got a walk-on at a new college (no free ride) and started the Spring Quarter. I consider both coaches to be friends and have contact with them. Spots scholarships are great – they should not be the basis of your daughter’s life. If she is un-happy move on. I paid for my daughter’s college, it was not “cheap” – my rules were grades first, volleyball second and social third. She graduated magna cum laude.
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