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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 4, 2012 17:44:05 GMT -5
saw a S.Barbara comment & must have messed up as that wasn't on digit's post....
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Post by geddyleemarvin on Jul 4, 2012 18:04:08 GMT -5
saw a S.Barbara comment & must have messed up as that wasn't on digit's post.... It was digit, just a different thread. The big problem with Santa Barbara is that it's the most expensive venue (along with Chicago) in the country to hold a tournament. Permit fee's are huge there. It was always a big money loser for the old AVP. It's possible that the new AVP didn't have a ton of options for Southern California at this late date - most beach permits for Huntington, Hermosa, Manhattan etc were snapped up months ago.
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Post by mjnaleva on Jul 9, 2012 20:24:44 GMT -5
Looks like AVP just sent out an email blast to their old e-newsletter subscriber list mentioning the 2 events planned this year. Info contained in the email is mostly a rehash of what's on the avp.com website.
So, at least they're starting to market a bit again.
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Post by ciscokeed on Jul 10, 2012 12:45:41 GMT -5
I have often thought that a team tennis style format might generate more non knowledgeable fans. ( I would still want to have some kind of AVP format that mixes in with the team tennis concept....)Have teams enter from different cities- have two male teams, two female teams and one mixed team. Play a dual match format, team that wins 3 matches wins whole thing. Play all matches regardless, and have a points and ranking format based on wins losses and also the point system the AVP uses. Cities come up with their own sponsors, and tie in with national sponsors. Have some kind of qualifying process, but also hold some events where people can just put together their own 5 pairs and go against the best. Continue to run just regular doubles events on top of the city concept, so that we still get our traditional tournaments- but I think there is room to do both... I don't know, maybe pretty hokey, but I think this format would appeal to the average fan who knows nothing about beach volleyball....
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digit
Sophomore
Posts: 132
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Post by digit on Jul 10, 2012 18:55:47 GMT -5
The original concept was womens tennis and the AVP blew that model all to hell by running tour.
Which part of No Dakota do you live in. The average person playing the less than average player will get his clock clean in about 10 minutes. Pitting this average player against a AA or AAA let alone PRO who works out all the time is equally sad.
Team volleyball has failed so many times it is not worth going consideration.
Do you really think there are fans for your suggested mess.
Throw away all of your fan base idea’s, they do not pay the bills. Unless PRO Beach Volleyball finds lifestyle roots it will continue to be what it is now. With or without the Olympics.
AVP putting up dollars for prize money will not change the view of: some rich computer guy trolling the beach with cash. Especially going to Santa Barbara in September: Summer tourist are gone, school is in, football covers the landscape, really small market, etc. and it has never been a good draw from day one - with or without KARCH.
Sorry to come down so hard – you are entitled to your thoughts. Digit.
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Post by mjnaleva on Jul 12, 2012 9:20:18 GMT -5
Digit, when you say "Team volleyball has failed so many times it is not worth going consideration", are you referring to the attempts to establish an indoor volleyball pro league in the US?
I've never really heard of the team league idea being used on the beach side in the way any other pro sports league is setup at least.
It really comes down to how the sport is marketed. Beach ball seems to have a little more glitz to it than indoor volleyball. Otherwise, it wouldn't get the popularity it does at the Olympics.
With the ever increasing breadth of sports out there, it's tough to make a name but savvy marketers figure it out.
I just can't help but think the tournament-based model used for decades now just hits a ceiling that's too low or falls apart once 1 sponsor with much of the purse strings pulls out for whatever reason. A collective ownership plan that happens when you have a league pulls in more people and stabilizes things. Granted, leagues come and go too.
I've never been much for the lifestyle push of the sport. Again, it limits things to those people who have time to spend a weekend at the beach, week after week. In today's busy world, there's no too many people who really can do that. Plus, playing beach volleyball isn't so much a "beach" only event anymore with all the inland facilities popping up across the country so the lifestyle aspects are going to have a hard time following that trend.
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Post by ciscokeed on Jul 12, 2012 10:23:51 GMT -5
Digit, no need for the cheap shots, you wish you had my beach pedigree in California...plus you misunderstood a couple of points. Look, what I like about the city concept is getting multiple sponsors to put together a financial framework that can keep a tour afloat. The actual competition format can be changed any number of ways, but it appears to me that the business models that have been put out have all failed. In terms of having events where you could have more than the actual sponsored teams compete, there would be qualifiers to be able to play against them, so the average hack like you wouldn't get there...As for your assertion that "team volleyball has failed so many times" you are off. The IVA was actually pretty received and although it did fold, it was an entertaining model that had some success, and is worthy of taking a look at...or what the hell, just keep going back to models that fail...
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planb
High School
Posts: 14
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Post by planb on Jul 12, 2012 11:03:03 GMT -5
After much thought and real life efforts (selling sponsorships), lets all put the"beach volleyball is a lifestyle sport" myth away. For a profitable 7-8 year run in the late 80's and early 90's, beach volleyball had a modest impact on the beach culture. I remember 20 "volley" clothing companies at Surf Expo at its peak and within two years of the free fall of the sport, there were none. Beach volleyball was featured in several main stream TV commercials during that period as well. Todays lifestyle aspect is limited to a few geographic locations in the U.S. Now surf and skate are "lifestyle" sports (cultures), not volleyball. Beach volleyball is only a lifestyle for the dwindling number of hardcore recreational players that are still playing. Made a lot of $$ with those day-glo volley shorts, in the day. RIP
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Post by volleyballjim on Jul 12, 2012 11:32:23 GMT -5
BUT planb, why is it the "hottest ticket at the Olympics"? Your points are pretty good and difficult to argue.....
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Post by ciscokeed on Jul 12, 2012 12:26:35 GMT -5
The Olympics is such a unique venue. I watch all kinds of sports that I never watch again until the next Olympics- gymnastics, swimming, track and field- I am amazed by it during the Olympics, but do you ever see me follow it in the other four years...no.... I think beach vb just falls into that area...I still think that there are enough rec players, and enough beach enthusiasts to support a modest professional tour- but again feel that we can be more creative in how we format the tour to attract the sponsors and media outlets that we need to maintain a tour.
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digit
Sophomore
Posts: 132
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Post by digit on Jul 12, 2012 19:45:21 GMT -5
Those are not cheap shots and as for your pedigree cisco I can question that you match up well, unless you ran PRO tournaments including the Manhattan Beach Open., etc. and a clothing company during that time. Maybe as a player, but if that is the case we should both sit down and have lunch with Butch to see just how tall you really stand. The only person that seems to have had his hand in the money pot at that time appears to be: Planb. Yes, some made money with day-glo shorts, etc. and operating tournaments throughout the United States, etc. during the “:golden times” Team volley ball sucks, people do not come to watch a team and development is super costly The assertion about failure is something that you repeated within your IVA reference. It appears cisco you have never put your money up to run tournaments of any reasonable dollar value or found sponsors to back the action. Try it, it is not easy, especially now that there really is no sport and times are hard for all venues. Unless you were born into a family that are computer genesis and super rich from their efforts welcome to the new AVP. Once again you talk about being “creative” to attract sponsors, and offer few if any ideas. Today, the sport is a dead loser on TV and with little or no player hero association, or lifestyle relationship, it just falls flat unless it is a sunny day at the beach. Do you really think that Quicksilver, Roxy, Billabong, etc. would be outside looking in if there was real value? Hopefully, one of them in the future can tie it together with surfing.
Most of this group are fans and my point has always been: put your money where your mouth is, until you start looking for sponsors, pony up to the bar to pay the bills it is all just talk. Go help run a couple of the local tournaments to see how rewarding it truly is. At the end of the day it is a whole different feeling when you are writing the checks. Other than that, start by finding a way to allow people to drink at the tournaments - have beauty contest and develop the whole agenda on multiple format including v-ball. . Jim: It is not the hottest ticket at the Olympics because of popularity of the sport. It is one of the smallest size audiences – so stop pounding tired drum. Everything is sold out. Traveling over the hill from San Jose to Cowells Beach is distorting your perspectiveam - maybe you and cisco can have a banger to gether in London as you both seem to share mutual rewarding ideas. DIGIT.
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Post by beachvolleymike on Jul 16, 2012 1:08:38 GMT -5
I just saw on avp.com that they're charging admission in Cincy. Bold move. ALSO, what does it mean when the AVP Championships Breakdown specifies that the "Undefeated champion earns: $47,500"? What if someone loses a game on the way to winning in the finals? check it out here: www.avpchampionships.com/format/2012AVP-Championships-Format.pdf
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Post by klazk on Jul 16, 2012 7:14:40 GMT -5
They've always charged admission in Cincy. Have always had good crowds anyway. I'd have to go back and check, but I think $15 is actually on the lower end of what they have been charging in the past. Especially since it is all day. Past 3-4 years, it was broken into one fee for the day session and a separate amount for the night session.
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Post by ciscokeed on Jul 16, 2012 11:18:42 GMT -5
Digit, please try to get over yourself. I was merely throwing some ideas out regarding a sport I love-a sport that I think should be able to carry a modest professional league.... And who knows, with college sand volleyball using a team format, dual meet format, that was fairly well attended, and received pretty decent reviews perhaps that will bring some followers to a team style event. Again, it may not be feasable, but I know that Brazil runs city tournaments that are extremely popular- although those are indoor events. No doubt you certainly do make a lot of good points, and by no means was I saying that team volleyball is THE answer- just throwing out a format that I think is interesting. After all, this is a discussion board. Now that I know that the DIGIT has all the right and correct answers- ooh and knows Butch... I will defer to his superior knowledge and intelligence and stick to trying to balance the budget...
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Post by parkplace on Jul 16, 2012 11:47:57 GMT -5
Who is Butch?
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