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Post by THEMAN on Jan 25, 2003 8:45:06 GMT -5
I am a former All-American and after playing on the National team and over seas for a year or so I realize that the level of play in college is not very high. I believe teams like Hawaii that have foreigners are cheating because all of these foreigners have played professionally in their countries. Guys like Theocharidis, Milandinovic and, if you remember in the past, Yuval Katz, come into this league of boys, ages 18-21, as grown developed men with unparallelled experience. You woundn't believe the difference one year of playing professionally can make in one's level of play. Costas Theocharidis, former player of the year, came into this league already older than most of the seniors as a freshman and had played in Greece, where he is from, in what is considered the 2nd best league in Europe next to Italy. First of all, college sports is supposed to be amateur, these foreigners come into a league as men with YEARS of experience playing professionally with inexperienced boys and I think its obvious that their experience shows. There shouldn't be professionals playing in college volleyball, Hawaii and other schools who have these players ARE CHEATING!!! You think it would be fair to have some NBA players come back to college? Didn't think so!
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Post by THEMAN on Jan 25, 2003 8:46:24 GMT -5
test
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VBall
Junior High
Posts: 2
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Post by VBall on Jan 25, 2003 9:42:08 GMT -5
I'am also a former all-american and play with the national team. I agree that teams that go over seas to get players are looking the other way when it comes to their elidgablity. I think that NCAA should take more of stance and acknowledge that just becuase men's volleyball isn't as important as some other sports it still needs to be monitored. How can anyone believe that a player that comes into college at the age of 23 or older has not taken money some where. People should stop bring up the PR issue these guys come in as freshman at the same ages as all the other americans. Its the players from brazil, greece, and other countries where the problem is.
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Post by Psychopotamus on Jan 25, 2003 10:51:32 GMT -5
I am also a former All-American... no... no wait, I'm not. But I also think that ANY type of professional experience should automatically disqualify you from being able to play in ANY NCAA sport. The few games these players are being suspended is just half @ssed. Either you're an ameteur or not, there is no grey area.
Yes, foreigners should be given the opportunity to play IF they are ameteurs. Only if it becomes a problem to make that distinction should the NCAA shut its doors to foreign players. It's good to get a global sense of the sport, but we can't match apples against oranges here. (Fruit salad?)
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Post by afvbking10 on Jan 25, 2003 12:57:57 GMT -5
The NCAA should crack down on this, it is not allowed in any other sports. Julio Acevedo who signed with UCLA for next year has been playing professionally in Puerto Rico for a couple years now. You earn so much experience playing professionally, plus you get paid to do it, which should take away your amateur status. Just like in basketball, once you sign an agent, you cannot go back and play in college, or once you receive a prize other than a medal, such as money, or some kind of gift, once you accept it, you lose your amateur status. So these volleyball players that are playing profesionally overseas should not be allowed to come to the United States and play volleyball with the rest of the college boys.
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Post by ACE on Jan 25, 2003 12:58:24 GMT -5
Maybe Hawaii won't need to recruit foreign players in the coming years as they've gotten a few fab 50 recruits the past couple of years. I think that was the main reason Mike recruited foreign players. Everyone knows that if you're a coach and your team doesn't have a winning record you'll eventurally get fired. UCLA, Pepperdine, Long Beach, Stanford year in and year out have had 4-8 Fab 50 recruits and simply out slugged Hawaii.
Hawaii needed these international players to win some games. I can't remember Hawaii recruiting a Freshmen from the US who was big. To be honest, I can only think of Delano Thomas (at 6'7) that Hawaii has gotten that was above 6'6. Ching 6'2, Motter 6'4.
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Post by THEMAN on Jan 25, 2003 15:01:00 GMT -5
who are you vball? and ace, sounds to me like you're from hawaii, how could you forget the "condor" Clay Stanley who stands at 6' 9".
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Post by roy on Jan 25, 2003 16:07:44 GMT -5
The problem is that every team uses foreign players. Some have more than others, but there isn't a team in the leauge that hasn't had a foreign standout at some time. Hector Lebron from BYU, Jonathan Acosta from UCLA, Donald Suxho from USC are all examples of international players with different levels of experience coming into college.
It will be interesting to see what happens if the NCAA does put some restictions on volleyball. It will affect a lot of teams and it will be interesting to see how each team deals with it.
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Post by kolohekeiki on Jan 25, 2003 17:22:11 GMT -5
I agree with you guys that professional international players should be limited, but why are you guys only picking on Hawai`i. Like another poster said almost every team has or had an international player that has made a big impact.
I know its probably all about the money, but what it the difference between a player playing professional and in the olympics. Obviously the level of play is pretty much the same.
But I do agree that the limit of international players should be limited.
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Post by IdahoBoy on Jan 25, 2003 18:43:17 GMT -5
Good grief! What a whiney topic!
No fair! They are good because they brought in players that are too good and old!
Have you guys ever been to a high school event? The age difference in a basketball game can be 4-5 years EASY! I have even been on the losing side of a 7 year age differential! The age difference for a teenager is far more critical than an 18-24 year old. Why don't we restrict competition in high school athletics to 17 and under while we're banning athletes from coming to America because we want OUR team to be the best.
Hawaii is not the only team bringing in foreign players. Hawaii is the only team that is beating your favorite team with those foreign players, though, otherwise you'd just give them a hard time about being a losing bunch of immigrants, or something.
It is only "CHEATING" in your eyes, as there have been no rules broken. In fact, the entire athletic program at UH was scrutinized in this regard early this year (with the new rule change) and they came out clean.
If I were to beat you in a game (you name it) and I beat you, and I was wearing foreign clothes, would I be a cheater too?
This topic seems ridiculous to me. Why don't we start a thread about the CHEATING teams that have players on their roster over 5'10?? Or those cheating teams that have easier class schedules?
If anything else, having these players, professionals or not, raises the level of play for the teams. Which makes for better matches, which makes for better competition, which makes for a more enjoyable sport for fans. I say, step up our level of play so that they don't need to bring in this type of player, if that is your concern.
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Post by rracer on Jan 25, 2003 19:56:16 GMT -5
I have to agree with IdahoBoy on this one. Hawaii is singled out as the "cheating" school, but I would argue that BYU has benefited more from foreign players (2 national titles) than Hawaii has. Despite this, I'm not blaming BYU or any other school for "cheating" because as has been mentioned EVERY program (except Stanford, I believe) has had a star foreign player.
Hawaii has had a foreign influence since they were a bottom of the league team 10 years ago, but they weren't criticized for it until they were successful. Remember Scates' comments back in '96 about Hawaii being Tel Aviv Univ-West campus?
This topic was discussed widely on the old message board after Hawaii won the national championship. The argument was that Hawaii's maturity was an unfair advantage and there was a lot of moaning about the fact Hawaii had two 26 year olds on the roster (Miladinovic and Podlewski). Of course, this was not a matter of discussion when Hawaii lost to Pepp three times during the season, or when they split with Long Beach, BYU, got trashed on opening night by Loyola-Chicago.
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Post by Guest on Jan 25, 2003 21:05:03 GMT -5
I am also an All-American. Oh God. Cry Me a River. Just play the game. There's no rule that says that ONLY Hawaii can recruit internationally.
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Post by hwy101 on Jan 25, 2003 23:12:54 GMT -5
Yes, these foreigners make an impact in college. I've noticed that majority of these foreign players are not really stars on the international stage, I mean practically unheard of. Is it because the quality of American volleyball (boys) in high school is not up to par with the international level?
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Jan 25, 2003 23:13:29 GMT -5
I agree with the above posts, Why single out Hawai'i with bold letters in the subject title. If having foreign players on your roster is cheating, than there are more teams than just Hawaii who is, in your opinion, "cheating ". I hear what you are saying, and am not disagreeing with your argument, but Hawai'i isn't the only team with foreign players on it's roster.
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Post by Manoa on Jan 26, 2003 5:32:34 GMT -5
The NCAA has guidelines on this which are similar to those for basketball. In the US, for young players, moving to the next level in volleyball means playing in college, but overseas, it means playing for a club team which will play in leagues or in a club structure which includes pros. Most foreign players come from these systems, so the NCAA has to recognize this to allow foreign players to play. If we were to ban foreign players, I think it would mean many programs would not be able to compete. We all know that men's volleyball is in danger of being dropped as a full fledged NCAA sport, a no foreign players rule would be the final straw which would put the sport under.
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