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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 19, 2013 14:11:14 GMT -5
So EVERYBODY, I mean EVERYBODY takes the good side when given their choice. OK, I can "dig" that, but how about THIS take on the "GOOD SIDE": Is it really?
So the good side is the wind in your face, of course...BUT, what that sets you up for, in a close game (READ: 18-17), is that you FINISH on the BAD side at a time when you need EVERY advantage you can (since you wasted them away earlier or it wouldn't be 18-17)...
When the score is 11-10, which it SHOULD be if you are fairly well matched and you're working hard, IF you had chosen the bad side to start, you will play 14 of the next 21 total points on the GOOD SIDE, whereas your opponent will spend but 7 there.
Now, I realize in a 21-19 game, you will probably play, I think, 2 more points on the bad side, but points EARLY are not the same as points LATE. There is a different dynamic late in the game than there is at game start and that side advantage to finish a game is critical....
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Post by thesnakeguy on Aug 19, 2013 18:57:59 GMT -5
Or over the course of the match, the wind change and you get a good side and a neutral side.
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Post by vb1987 on Aug 19, 2013 19:37:35 GMT -5
Pretty fun argument for both sides in this. I have a buddy who at one point was on tour, and he will always choose receive regardless of how strong the wind is, knowing the other team will take the good side. All because of the arguments you made. I think the biggest thing is whether or not the team plays better with a lead or not. A lot of teams get a bit demoralized if they go down early. I know I would rather jump on teams early. I prefer playing with a lead because I feel more comfortable letting the serves rip while I am ahead.... Either way I don't think there is a correct answer.
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Post by vballit on Aug 19, 2013 21:30:29 GMT -5
For some reason when I watched my favorite vollie dollies on the AVP tour I would always chose their back side, then when they switched sides I would run over to position myself to their back side again... almost like enjoying a never ending delicious roast beef sandwich with a can of cold coke.. God they are great for pro beach volleyball
TheVolleyballGod
VBG
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 19, 2013 21:36:21 GMT -5
VBG, you ARE consistent; enlightening, not so much . . .
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Post by tinman2 on Aug 19, 2013 21:52:02 GMT -5
You've posted this argument before....points early and points late are worth 1 point. If you are the only genius in the world that has figured out it is better to play more points on the bad side, then don't tell everyone. Keep using it to your advantage.
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Post by billygun7 on Aug 20, 2013 2:33:39 GMT -5
I like your take on good bad/ side,I've never play beach volleyball. I play on sand for fun. I watch beach volleyball since 2001,seem win by 2. game is play to 21. Get a side-out up by 2 points then Side-out. I hear April say to Jen Side-out,we are 2,just side-out. I could be wrong.
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Post by swift on Aug 20, 2013 4:17:16 GMT -5
For some reason when I watched my favorite vollie dollies on the AVP tour I would always chose their back side, then when they switched sides I would run over to position myself to their back side again... almost like enjoying a never ending delicious roast beef sandwich with a can of cold coke.. God they are great for pro beach volleyball TheVolleyballGod VBG this. I think a good start is more important than on which side you finsih the game. I also believe that you tend to let factors like the wind etc. bother yourself more early in a game than late in a game when it's money time and you forget about everything else. |
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Post by JB Southpaw on Aug 20, 2013 7:15:42 GMT -5
If there truly is a good side aided by wind, and the other team picks side, I like to serve.
While the good side helps the service game, it can blow sets off the net. Instead of giving a team the majority of the serves from the good side, I like to take 1 serving chance away from them and try to steal the 1st point.
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Post by ciscokeed on Aug 20, 2013 9:47:45 GMT -5
Interesting point, but I think you always build the lead, and assume you handle the wind better as the game goes on...ultimately you want to play as many points on the good side as possible- you can never predict the score... so give yourself the best chance to do that by taking the good side...or the other always money answer- WWKD or What would Karch do? I never saw him take the bad side when given the chance....
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Post by Semp12 on Aug 20, 2013 9:51:18 GMT -5
I've got to agree with Vball1987. Jump serving ahead 2-3 points is a lot different from jump serving down 2-3, especially late in the game.
Are we talking about a heavy wind with tons of aces, or a slight wind that everyone is siding out most of the time anyways? That can come into account as well. I still mostly think of being on the bad side as not the end of the world as I can just survive this first 7 and still get to finish on the good side.
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Post by guest2 on Aug 20, 2013 10:50:36 GMT -5
The only reason not to take side is if the wind isn't that bad. Choosing the bad side because you will be on the good side in case of a tie is just dumb. There is never a situation wherein the team that starts on the bad side will have played more points on the good side, but there are dozens of the opposite.
More time on the good side is better. Also, and contrary to your point, goodside badside has less effect at the end of games as players get tighter, serves get easier, etc.
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Post by volleyballjim on Aug 20, 2013 11:43:03 GMT -5
guest: My bad; I thought I had posted this, but went back in my history and didn't see it; oh well.
In answer to games get tighter, serves easier, I think this DOES work at a level-specific place (lower A down to B). Higher levels, tactics like this are less/not applicable....If I can get 3 points on the bad side, I think it was a success and a switch at 3-4 is the lowest objective of this strategy. ESPECIALLY in game 1 where the team is not fully warmed up. If the team is way better than you, no I would not take the bad side, switch at 2-5 or 1-6 and expect much better to happen....
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Post by trollhunter on Aug 22, 2013 23:45:07 GMT -5
So EVERYBODY, I mean EVERYBODY takes the good side when given their choice. OK, I can "dig" that, but how about THIS take on the "GOOD SIDE": Is it really? So the good side is the wind in your face, of course...BUT, what that sets you up for, in a close game (READ: 18-17), is that you FINISH on the BAD side at a time when you need EVERY advantage you can (since you wasted them away earlier or it wouldn't be 18-17)... When the score is 11-10, which it SHOULD be if you are fairly well matched and you're working hard, IF you had chosen the bad side to start, you will play 14 of the next 21 total points on the GOOD SIDE, whereas your opponent will spend but 7 there. Now, I realize in a 21-19 game, you will probably play, I think, 2 more points on the bad side, but points EARLY are not the same as points LATE. There is a different dynamic late in the game than there is at game start and that side advantage to finish a game is critical.... Some holes in this argument: 1) You say that the early score SHOULD be 11-10 which means good side is worth NOTHING. With one team playing 14 points on good side versus 7 on bad side. Basically, you are saying that there is no good side, or that it is not worth anything. Very clever, but anyone that has played beach at any level knows that is incorrect. 2) But if we accept that supposition stated in #1 (which is wrong), you ask us to also believe that it is suddenly important to be on the good side at the end. According to you the good side is irrelevant early (first 21 points) and vital late (last 21 points). Hmmmmmmmm. We could discuss game theory and some other aspects but a couple of your assumptions appear to be incorrect and conflicting. |
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Post by guest2 on Aug 22, 2013 23:52:46 GMT -5
guest: My bad; I thought I had posted this, but went back in my history and didn't see it; oh well. In answer to games get tighter, serves easier, I think this DOES work at a level-specific place (lower A down to B). Higher levels, tactics like this are less/not applicable....If I can get 3 points on the bad side, I think it was a success and a switch at 3-4 is the lowest objective of this strategy. ESPECIALLY in game 1 where the team is not fully warmed up. If the team is way better than you, no I would not take the bad side, switch at 2-5 or 1-6 and expect much better to happen.... Wind has less effect at the end of games for the following reasons: Teams have had the most possible time playing in those conditions and are used to it more Serving gets more conservative (this is so apparent as to be axiomatic and has been confirmed a lot by top players) Concentration on the part of passers and hitters is greater. But assume that its equivalent, which it isn't, starting on the good side can get you the following advantages: +7 pts on the good side +6, +5, +4, +2, +1 Assuming the only thing in play is number of pts spent on each side: Starting on the bad side has a 15% chance of getting you an equivalent amount of plays on the good side. So in 85% of situations (the number could go as low as 71% or so depending on advanced math) you are going to be at a disadvantage with your strategy and will never be at an advantage. |
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